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EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

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Teflon Lettuce

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fowler9 said:
Moving on, why would the EU be bothered about respecting the will of about half of the people of the UK who voted leave, they have much larger responsibilities despite what your British exceptionalism may lead you to believe.
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because the outcome of Brexit will also affect the rest of the people in the other 27 EU nations...
 
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Mvann

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And bigger problems like Italian budget, rise in populist movements, Poland, Hungary, the loss of merkel, etc. Plus they've only jus averted the problem of people's money being stuck in London
 
EM2

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Teflon Lettuce said:
What the EU, our government and remainers seem to forget is that the UK is the 6th largest economy in the world INDEPENDENT of the EU... it is also one of the largest net contributors into the EU budget.... that SHOULD'VE given us a stronger hand in the negotiations... so why were we so weak in our negotiations... could it be that the EU could see that the country was bitterly divided and so it could hold out and totally humiliate us.
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Anyone that thinks a party of one negotiating with a party of twenty-seven is going to get anything it wants without it being an excellent idea that suits everyone has absolutely no idea of what negotiation is
 
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Teflon Lettuce

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EM2 said:
Anyone that thinks a party of one negotiating with a party of twenty-seven is going to get anything it wants without it being an excellent idea that suits everyone has absolutely no idea of what negotiation is
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but then conversely, by the law of averages a party of one should be more united and unanimous in what it wants than a party of 27 with various individual requirements shouldn't it?
On that evidence it really does show what a shower our politicians really are
 
EM2

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Teflon Lettuce said:
but then conversely, by the law of averages a party of one should be more united and unanimous in what it wants than a party of 27 with various individual requirements shouldn't it?
On that evidence it really does show what a shower our politicians really are
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Not when the twenty-seven all want the same thing, and it is fundamentally different to what the one wants
 
507021

507021

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Teflon Lettuce said:
but then conversely, by the law of averages a party of one should be more united and unanimous in what it wants than a party of 27 with various individual requirements shouldn't it?
On that evidence it really does show what a shower our politicians really are
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That's like saying one Labour MP would win a vote in the House of Commons against 27 Tory MPs (or vice versa).

It isn't going to happen.
 
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Mvann

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But the 27 have been told to tow the party line. It's only been in the last week that macron and Spain have started to make waves
 
HH

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Might I suggest that we go into a no deal Brexit, that seems to be what most rabid Brexiteers wish for. In order to pay for that these people should accept a 30% hike in Income Tax, so that the rest of the UK (i.e. the majority) don't suffer. I think I could get behind Brexit if that was the case.
 
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radamfi

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Teflon Lettuce said:
I would rather we didn't... but if we have to then so be it... what has become clear from the "negotiations" is that the EU is totally intransigent.... and has, to be honest, conducted them in much the same way as remainers have debated:

EU: how shall we deal with the NI border?
UK: we can do a, b and c
EU: No, Non Nein
UK: ok how about d, e and f
EU: No Non Nein
UK: ok what's your idea?
EU: nothing to do with us... you come up with a solution.
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If the EU is "intransigent", how come they have agreed to a deal which means the end of free movement, long considered to be non-negotiable?
 
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AM9

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Teflon Lettuce said:
oh well.. you know the old saying... if you don't engage in the process you can't complain at the outcome....
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OK, I'll bite. Personally, leaving the EU, even without any agreed deal, it won't affect me enough to bother me. I'm retired, own my house, have a reasonable pension, enough savings, OK health for my age, live in an area where immigrants are treated like human beings, and am not a slave to a motor car. So if I was to engage in the execution of the 2016 referendum result, what would I do? Well I'd start from the optimum position using the letter of the referendum question:
1) the result (by less than 2.73% of registered voters) was in favour of leaving the EU
2) I would support delivering what the electorate voted for i.e probably the best chance of success would be for a so called 'Norway' arrangement. Maybe a bit naïve thinking that the leavers would also respect the result of the referendum, it would probably be fairly easy to get full agreement on from the EU and we would by now be well into the leaving process planning.
3) Being slightly more realistic, the leavers, whilst saying that they would accept such an arrangement before the result was known, are now demanding more than voters were asked for. So bringing us up to the present situation (which could have been arrived at about a year ago) I would insist that the electorate were asked to choose from the available choices rather than doggedly pursue a result from 29 months ago when a large proportion of the voters demonstrably didn't have enough information on which to make a decision that would set the direction of the UK for the forseeable future.​
OK, so that is a true supporter of the EU fully engaging in the result, the process for delivering the result and what to do when the negotiators have lost their way, (as is the situation now). My personal preference would be to keep the status quo, but as you want to see what a remain voter's engagement might be like, there it is.
 
EM2

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Mvann said:
But the 27 have been told to tow the party line. It's only been in the last week that macron and Spain have started to make waves
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I think you mean 'toe'. But anyway...it took the 27 other members less than an hour to ratify the deal last week. Don't see much dissent there.
 
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SteveP29

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Teflon Lettuce said:
Leave voters have recognised all along that the deal wouldn't give them everything they personally want
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No they haven't, they said they'd be free of:

Unelected people making our laws
No more immigration and people from other countries stealing our jobs
More money for the NHS because if we allow any more immigrants/ health tourists, it'll collapse
More homes for British people because there's too many non British taking up our housing stock
Schools no longer full to bursting
Trade deals with the Commonwealth
EU army
etc
etc
etc
 
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Mvann

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EM2 said:
I think you mean 'toe'. But anyway...it took the 27 other members less than an hour to ratify the deal last week. Don't see much dissent there.
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Toe is a thing on the end of your foot, so unless you are suggesting they were kicked up the backside to stay in line, tow is the correct wording as in the use of a tow rope
 
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bnm

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Mvann said:
Toe is a thing on the end of your foot, so unless you are suggesting they were kicked up the backside to stay in line, tow is the correct wording as in the use of a tow rope
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Oh dear. Have you heard of Google?
 
Macwomble

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Well TM has now agreed a TV debate (BBC and at 9pm too)....but only with JC.

Reason, their two parties account for nearly 90% of all MPs. Obviously the "smaller" parties views count for absolutely nothing.
 
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thejuggler

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Unless those who pay their wages are going to get something out of it what is the point? They have been debating for 2.5 years, they will debate for another 5 days before the vote. I'm not aware we are voting for anything as a result of this charade.

Is the idea that we will all be out at our MPs offices demanding they vote/don't vote for the deal after hearing them bicker in soundbites at each other for another hour?
 
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SteveP29

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Macwomble said:
Well TM has now agreed a TV debate (BBC and at 9pm too)....but only with JC.

Reason, their two parties account for nearly 90% of all MPs. Obviously the "smaller" parties views count for absolutely nothing.
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What's the betting the BBC will be all softly softly with May, prompted by Marr, Robinson and Kuenessberg, while Corbyn will be pillioried and not given a chance to finish his statements (a mini Question Time if you like, seeing as Dimbleby always interrupts the Labour rep)
 
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SteveP29

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Mvann said:
Toe is a thing on the end of your foot, so unless you are suggesting they were kicked up the backside to stay in line, tow is the correct wording as in the use of a tow rope
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Taken literally, towing the party line means you are leading it, taking it where you want to go, not being asked to go where it goes, so, big fat Family Fortunes X for you there
 
Howardh

Howardh

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"Toe the line" is an idiomatic expression meaning either to conform to a rule or standard, or to stand poised at the starting line in a footrace. Other phrases which were once used in the early 1800s and have the same meaning were toe the mark and toe the plank.
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Wikipedia.
(yes, I know).
 
Howardh

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Looks like Uncle Theresa and Aunty Jeremy will be having a face-to-beard debate about Brexit; but they can't sort out which channel/time.

So that'll be one hour of both of them coming out with absolutely nothing, while the rest of us still wonder if our holidays will go ahead next summer or will sterling have crashed below Haseem Hameed's latest batting average (ie that bad)?
 
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