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‘Route: via City Thameslink’

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Skimpot flyer

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Does a ticket that states ‘via City Thameslink’ mean you can’t change at East Croydon for a faster Southern train down to Brighton?
I only ask as the wording is NOT ‘ Thameslink Only’...
 
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Starmill

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You may travel on whatever train you wish (subject to any applicable time restrictions) provided you are using a permitted route and you pass through City Thameslink :)
 

edwin_m

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I was returning from Gatwick on Thameslink last week on a Super-Off-Peak from Nottingham via City Thameslink, but changed to the Circle Line at Farringdon when the Thameslink driver announced there would be delay due to a points failure ahead. I was preparing myself to have the argument with the Underground barrier staff at KXSP that I had passed through City Thameslink and the ticket had an "iron cross". Rather to my surprise the ticket gate accepted it.
 

Starmill

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I was returning from Gatwick on Thameslink last week on a Super-Off-Peak from Nottingham via City Thameslink, but changed to the Circle Line at Farringdon when the Thameslink driver announced there would be delay due to a points failure ahead. I was preparing myself to have the argument with the Underground barrier staff at KXSP that I had passed through City Thameslink and the ticket had an "iron cross". Rather to my surprise the ticket gate accepted it.
I think Underground gates at St Pancras will always accept tickets with the cross-London marker.
 

Starmill

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Does that mean I can get out at Moorgate and walk to London Bridge should I choose. (If travelling from WGC)
With a 'Not Underground' ticket then yes.

It's unclear how this route to Moorgate passes through City Thameslink though.
 

Failed Unit

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With a 'Not Underground' ticket then yes.

It's unclear how this route to Moorgate passes through City Thameslink though.

Journey planners will show the following.

Welwyn Garden City - Moorgate
Moorgate - Farringdon
Farringdon- Brighton

When you request a via City Thameslink ticket on the July 2018 timetable.

If that is actually and acceptable route is a different question.
 

Starmill

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If > Moorgate > Farringdon > City Thameslink > London Bridge is considered a permitted route then yes absolutely what you propose is fine. I'm surprised but if that's what their website says then that's your answer.
 

BluePenguin

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I was returning from Gatwick on Thameslink last week on a Super-Off-Peak from Nottingham via City Thameslink, but changed to the Circle Line at Farringdon when the Thameslink driver announced there would be delay due to a points failure ahead. I was preparing myself to have the argument with the Underground barrier staff at KXSP that I had passed through City Thameslink and the ticket had an "iron cross". Rather to my surprise the ticket gate accepted it.
If your ticket had the cross then wasn't it valid on the underground anyway? Plus it is hard to understand how you would you take advantage of the underground if you have to travel via City Thameslink anyway. The ticket might as well not have the validity and save people money
 

Hadders

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This is interesting. Nottingham to Gatwick Airport definitely has a '+via City Thameslink' routed ticket. I haven't checked the routeing guide but presumably 'London' is one of the routeing options. Is Nottingham - London valid into Moorgate or Liverpool Street in which case an Underground connection to Farringdon could be made to then continue south on Thameslink via City Thameslink.

There are then tickets such as Stevenage - Brighton routed 'via City Thameslink' (no maltese cross).

I can only conclude that the maltese cross on the Nottingham ticket is an error - I doubt very much that it is intended to be used via Moorgate or Liverpool Street.
 

edwin_m

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If your ticket had the cross then wasn't it valid on the underground anyway? Plus it is hard to understand how you would you take advantage of the underground if you have to travel via City Thameslink anyway. The ticket might as well not have the validity and save people money
On checking the same booking engine (Evolvi) I find there are "any permitted" super-off-peaks and off-peaks at £4 more than the "route City Thameslink", and I presume the difference is a payment to LU (but if so why indeed does the cheaper ticket have the cross?). But the Anytime return is a whopping £22.70 more!
 

RJ

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The Cross London marker is just that. It allows you to travel between designated Tube/DLR and NR interchanges either via City Thameslink or using the Underground/DLR. This is explained on page 4 of the National Routeing Guide instructions.

You get some +Not Underground fares which are meant to be used via Thameslink and some +Not Via London fares which are meant to be used via the Underground or DLR. I think in the case of via City Thameslink fares the Maltese Cross is superfluous.
 
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RJ

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Can you give some examples? The cross and "NOT UNDERGROUND" or "NOT VIA LONDON" are surely meant to be mutually exclusive.

This are the flows I could find in the NFM31 data! Perhaps the Not Underground examples have been removed, which given what is stated on the back of tickets is probably not a bad thing.

Some, if not all of these fares only have this routing in one direction. For example, the only option for Rayleigh to Barking is +Not Via London, but for Barking to Rayleigh it's Any Permitted. It looks like there has been some sort of exercise undertaken to get rid of the routing in question.

Code:
Origin              Destination         Route      
CANADA WATER        RAINHAM ESSEX       NOT VIA LONDON
CANADA WATER        STRATFORD LONDON    NOT VIA LONDON
CANADA WATER        UPMINSTER           NOT VIA LONDON
HOCKLEY             DAGENHAM DOCK       NOT VIA LONDON
HOCKLEY             WEST HAM            NOT VIA LONDON
LEWISHAM            BARKING             NOT VIA LONDON
LEWISHAM            DAGENHAM DOCK       NOT VIA LONDON
LEWISHAM            LIMEHOUSE LTS       NOT VIA LONDON
LEWISHAM            WEST HAM            NOT VIA LONDON
NEW CROSS           BARKING             NOT VIA LONDON
NEW CROSS           DAGENHAM DOCK       NOT VIA LONDON
NEW CROSS           LIMEHOUSE LTS       NOT VIA LONDON
NEW CROSS           RAINHAM ESSEX       NOT VIA LONDON
NEW CROSS           STRATFORD LONDON    NOT VIA LONDON
NEW CROSS           UPMINSTER           NOT VIA LONDON
NEW CROSS           WEST HAM            NOT VIA LONDON
NEW CROSS GATE      BARKING             NOT VIA LONDON
NEW CROSS GATE      DAGENHAM DOCK       NOT VIA LONDON
NEW CROSS GATE      LIMEHOUSE LTS       NOT VIA LONDON
NEW CROSS GATE      RAINHAM ESSEX       NOT VIA LONDON
NEW CROSS GATE      STRATFORD LONDON    NOT VIA LONDON
NEW CROSS GATE      UPMINSTER           NOT VIA LONDON
NEW CROSS GATE      WEST HAM            NOT VIA LONDON
RAYLEIGH            BARKING             NOT VIA LONDON
RAYLEIGH            DAGENHAM DOCK       NOT VIA LONDON
RAYLEIGH            WEST HAM            NOT VIA LONDON
ROTHERHITHE         RAINHAM ESSEX       NOT VIA LONDON
ROTHERHITHE         STRATFORD LONDON    NOT VIA LONDON
ROTHERHITHE         UPMINSTER           NOT VIA LONDON
SHADWELL            RAINHAM ESSEX       NOT VIA LONDON
SHADWELL            STRATFORD LONDON    NOT VIA LONDON
SHADWELL            UPMINSTER           NOT VIA LONDON
SHENFIELD           BARKING             NOT VIA LONDON
SHENFIELD           DAGENHAM DOCK       NOT VIA LONDON
ST JOHNS            BARKING             NOT VIA LONDON
ST JOHNS            DAGENHAM DOCK       NOT VIA LONDON
ST JOHNS            LIMEHOUSE LTS       NOT VIA LONDON
ST JOHNS            WEST HAM            NOT VIA LONDON
SURREY QUAYS        RAINHAM ESSEX       NOT VIA LONDON
SURREY QUAYS        STRATFORD LONDON    NOT VIA LONDON
SURREY QUAYS        UPMINSTER           NOT VIA LONDON
WALTHAM CROSS       SHENFIELD           NOT VIA LONDON
WAPPING             RAINHAM ESSEX       NOT VIA LONDON
WAPPING             STRATFORD LONDON    NOT VIA LONDON
WAPPING             UPMINSTER           NOT VIA LONDON
WHITECHAPEL         RAINHAM ESSEX       NOT VIA LONDON
WHITECHAPEL         STRATFORD LONDON    NOT VIA LONDON
WHITECHAPEL         UPMINSTER           NOT VIA LONDON
 
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OwlMan

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Can you give some examples? The cross and "NOT UNDERGROUND" or "NOT VIA LONDON" are surely meant to be mutually exclusive.
+Not Underground means that travel is allowed across London but only by Thameslink or DLR
+Not Via London allows travel via the Underground or DLR but travel is not allowed between London Terminals, only using links in the suburbs like DLR from Stratford to Greenwich or Underground from Finsbury Park to Tottenham Hale
 

ForTheLoveOf

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+Not Underground means that travel is allowed across London but only by Thameslink or DLR
+Not Via London allows travel via the Underground or DLR but travel is not allowed between London Terminals, only using links in the suburbs like DLR from Stratford to Greenwich or Underground from Finsbury Park to Tottenham Hale
On the back of tickets one is told that the Maltese cross symbol indicates that transfer across London on the Underground, Thameslink or DLR is permitted. Surely that is, itself, mutually exclusive with a route of 'not Underground'? It's almost as if the ticket is routed 'not Underground, AAA Underground' (or 'Not Underground Plus Underground', a la HS1 routes). I can appreciate what the intent is, but the Maltese cross symbol is flawed in this respect.
 

Paul Kelly

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+Not Via London allows travel via the Underground or DLR but travel is not allowed between London Terminals, only using links in the suburbs like DLR from Stratford to Greenwich or Underground from Finsbury Park to Tottenham Hale
Another way of doing this would be to have something like "ZONE U23*LONDN" as the route, e.g. as for this fare from Kingston to Slough, which I think is intended to be used on the District Line between Richmond and Ealing Broadway:
http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=KNG&dest=SLO&rte=940&tkt=SDS
 
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