Late night buses on the Isle of Wight

I recently stayed a couple of days on the Isle of Wight, mainly to sample the Southern Vectis buses and the extraordinary Island Line.

First of all, I found Southern Vectis (the island's only bus company, and part of Go-Ahead) to be an exceptional operator. I'm used to a good network with Stagecoach, but this was something else. The IoW routes have good frequencies, with a clean and modern fleet. I found most drivers to be very helpful and friendly. Bus services successfully link up with the ferries and trains, with well located bus stations. The thing which really pleased me was the timetable booklet. This includes all of their bus timetables, complete with excellent maps (of the island network, and of town/area networks) and all sorts of useful information. I would possibly nominate this as the best timetable information I have seen in the UK. The timetable booklet was easily found at transport interchanges, tourist information and in my Travelodge hotel.

Something I found most intriguing was the late night/early morning journeys. Some main routes have an almost 24-hour service on Friday/Saturday nights, and even on normal evenings (sometimes including Sundays), buses on most routes operate until around midnight, including on route 8 which is hourly during the day. The Isle of Wight is certainly not a cosmopolitan bustling island full of university students. Of course, the island does get busy over the summer, and I was here in winter when it certainly is very quiet.
I has made me wonder why the Isle of Wight has such a good night service. There does not appear to be a successful nighttime economy here. I stayed in Ryde, where it was quiet even during shopping hours and on a Friday evening. I did not see many bars or clubs in any of the IoW towns, and the pubs didn't look very popular. The night life in Newport (not a place i'd recommend) seemed to consist of track-suited yobs hanging outside of McDonald's hurling abuse at passers by.
In terms of jobs, most shops seemed to shut in the early evening, and i'm not aware that any supermarkets are open 24 hours (possibly the Tesco Extra or Newport Asda though). The mainland ferries do not have an overnight service.
So why does the island have such a good evening and night service?

Maybe Southern Vectis have become such a trusted operator, that there is a market for late evening buses?

This all contrasts to where I live in Canterbury, a bustling cosmopolitan university city. Many routes finish in the mid-evening, with only the main 'Triangle' and 'Breeze' routes operating until 11pm. The only night service is the Uni2 route from the city centre to the university, and this was only introduced a few years ago. Possibly the only 24/7 service in Kent (well, in uni term time only)

They even have a decent network on christmas day also, with many key routes running hourly.

This puzzles me as I can't fathom the buses being particularly busy.

Where I live there's no service on Christmas day or New year's, and there's only about 2-3 services running on Boxing day.

Vectis is without a doubt the best rural (and it is quite rural!) bus network in the UK, possibly even in the world.

I think in some regard it has a bit of a "perfect storm" of being on an island attractive to older tourists (=safe pass income) and is able to charge non-passholding tourists a fairly hefty whack (the day ticket and 48 hour tickets are a bit pricey, but not massively higher than say the Stagecoach Lake District ones) because they are discouraged from bringing a car to the island due to the high cost of the ferry.

FWIW the lack of a big night economy may well be the reason why late evening buses are viable - if all the pubs shut at 11ish, there is going to be significant demand clustered around then - something which is no longer the case in the rest of the UK and has destroyed late evening service viability by spreading the demand too thinly. When it used to be "pubs until 11:20, clubs until 2" you could put a bus out of the city centre about 11:45 and another about 2:20 and pack them full - no longer, with pubs closing at fairly spread out times and clubs all night - for it to work you need a half hourly service all night, and that is just too costly if you're going to have 5 people on each one.

Also, I guess Uber aren't there yet...

Bletchleyite has summed it up perfectly. The car ferry fares are extortionate given the distance involved, and if day trippers know they can rely on public transport they are more likely to leave the car on the mainland.

Southern Vectis have also had an effective monopoly since NBC days, which has enabled them to develop a proper network as might happen in PTE areas, rather than competing for business on the most lucrative (Ryde - Newport - Cowes) corridors.

alex397 said:

So why does the island have such a good evening and night service?

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And don't forget services on Christmas Day (five key routes this year), Boxing Day (Sunday service across the island) and New Year's Day (also Sunday service). Remarkable for what is essentially a small shire county with a handful of relatively small towns.

Smethwickian said:

And don't forget services on Christmas Day (five key routes this year), Boxing Day (Sunday service across the island) and New Year's Day (also Sunday service). Remarkable for what is essentially a small shire county with a handful of relatively small towns.

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Indeed. As I said, without a doubt the best rural bus service in the UK, and quite possibly the best in the world.

The only thing I'd change is to bring the Island Line into the bus ticketing system and co-ordinate timetabling a bit better with it. There's no reason, other than the existence of through tickets which could remain, why all ticketing has to follow the RSP model. It could be done with an "Isle of Wight PlusBus" type thing instead to keep the through ticketing, and everything else be through Vectis.

Lived on the island for 22 years and Iv always thought the bus service was ok if you lived in Ryde or Newport. Other than that it’s fairly poor really.

BBC said:

Lived on the island for 22 years and Iv always thought the bus service was ok if you lived in Ryde or Newport. Other than that it’s fairly poor really.

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People in just about every rural Shire county would give their eye teeth for it, I'm sure.

Bletchleyite said:

People in just about every rural Shire county would give their eye teeth for it, I'm sure.

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It’s probably the fact I lived there for so long that you get complacent! When I go back now we have no route where the family live

BBC said:

It’s probably the fact I lived there for so long that you get complacent! When I go back now we have no route where the family live

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I think it’s probably better to compare the level of bus services on the Isle of Wight now with bus services in other shire counties. If you compare the current service to that of years ago you will be disappointed, as indeed I was on a recent visit.

I had relatives that I used to visit regularly during the 1970’s, when I was in my late teens, and I remember where they lived at Niton at the south of the island they used to enjoy fantastic bus services especially during the summer holiday season. I think there was a regular half hourly service from Blackgang Chine running round the coast through Ventnor, Shanklin and Sandown to Ryde and this used the now closed Undercliff Road between Niton and Ventnor. There was also an hourly bus from Sandown which ran through Whitwell and Niton going right along the south coast to Freshwater. In addition to these there were also two different routes from Niton to Newport. Now Niton just gets about 6 buses each way a day on the Ventnor to Newport route.

I visited the Isle of Wight for day trip about 2 years ago and was quite shocked at the poor level of bus services to Niton which did not allow me to get off and have a quick wander around without a 2 hour wait for the next bus. Things change in 40 years, but the Isle of Wight still gets a great bus service in comparison to other rural parts of the country.

Services haven’t always been so good and have been very expensive.

Back maybe 25 or 30 years ago there would be an hourly service from West Cowes to Newport and Ryde and you had about 5 minutes to get to West Hill Road from the hydrofoil which had an hourly service in those days and this was 5 mins walk from Fountain Quay you would often walk round the corner to see the bus had pulled away.

Before the days of passes. My Nan used to get a book of tokens, I forget the value but they were cardboard to use against fares and once they had gone you had to pay the full rate.

There was however a fairly good connection to a lot of the tourist attractions,

alex397 said:

I recently stayed a couple of days on the Isle of Wight, mainly to sample the Southern Vectis buses and the extraordinary Island Line.

First of all, I found Southern Vectis (the island's only bus company, and part of Go-Ahead) to be an exceptional operator. I'm used to a good network with Stagecoach, but this was something else. The IoW routes have good frequencies, with a clean and modern fleet. I found most drivers to be very helpful and friendly. Bus services successfully link up with the ferries and trains, with well located bus stations. The thing which really pleased me was the timetable booklet. This includes all of their bus timetables, complete with excellent maps (of the island network, and of town/area networks) and all sorts of useful information. I would possibly nominate this as the best timetable information I have seen in the UK. The timetable booklet was easily found at transport interchanges, tourist information and in my Travelodge hotel.

Something I found most intriguing was the late night/early morning journeys. Some main routes have an almost 24-hour service on Friday/Saturday nights, and even on normal evenings (sometimes including Sundays), buses on most routes operate until around midnight, including on route 8 which is hourly during the day. The Isle of Wight is certainly not a cosmopolitan bustling island full of university students. Of course, the island does get busy over the summer, and I was here in winter when it certainly is very quiet.
I has made me wonder why the Isle of Wight has such a good night service. There does not appear to be a successful nighttime economy here. I stayed in Ryde, where it was quiet even during shopping hours and on a Friday evening. I did not see many bars or clubs in any of the IoW towns, and the pubs didn't look very popular. The night life in Newport (not a place i'd recommend) seemed to consist of track-suited yobs hanging outside of McDonald's hurling abuse at passers by.
In terms of jobs, most shops seemed to shut in the early evening, and i'm not aware that any supermarkets are open 24 hours (possibly the Tesco Extra or Newport Asda though). The mainland ferries do not have an overnight service.
So why does the island have such a good evening and night service?

Maybe Southern Vectis have become such a trusted operator, that there is a market for late evening buses?

This all contrasts to where I live in Canterbury, a bustling cosmopolitan university city. Many routes finish in the mid-evening, with only the main 'Triangle' and 'Breeze' routes operating until 11pm. The only night service is the Uni2 route from the city centre to the university, and this was only introduced a few years ago. Possibly the only 24/7 service in Kent (well, in uni term time only)

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I know this is a discussion from last year, so I hope no-one minds me posting that the Tesco Extra store you mentioned is a 24 hours one.

Anyone else remember that Southern Vectis used to produce a nationwide bus timetable, but it was unfortunately discontinued with the advent of the very much inferior Traveline?

Great british bus timetable booklet, It was always out of date even with it come out...

For some reason all of our islands (Isle Of Wight / Jersey / Guernsey / Isle Of Man) seem to have some of the best bus services in the UK (far better than the mainland) with frequent routes all around the islands and plenty of late night bus services and night bus services. Even on Christmas Day the Isle Of Wight had a network of routes running hourly all day until around midnight. Its also interesting to note that Go Ahead Southern Vectis are the one and only bus operator on the entire island. I am very surprised that so far no other bus operators have decided to compete or run any routes on the island.

I do find that their fares are ridiculously expensive though. Just a one day ticket costs £10.00 just for the island alone. To put that in to comparison for £9.00 you can buy a Discovery ticket covering one day of travel on buses in pretty much all of Kent / Hampshire / Surrey / Sussex on almost all bus operators. All of their Single and Return fares are very expensive as well and cost far more than they would on the mainland. I guess it is due to the fact that they have a complete monopoly so they can just charge what they want as they know that people will have no other choice but to pay it. The other islands (Guernsey / Isle Of Man / Jersey) also have monopolies yet they charge very cheap fares (much cheaper than the mainland) so there is really no need for Go Ahead Southern Vectis to charge so high.

They do produce good publicity on the Isle Of Wight though. It is good to see that they still have a paper timetable booklet available as well as maps of their bus services.

Other islands with fair inferior bus services are available

overthewater said:

Great british bus timetable booklet, It was always out of date even with it come out...

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"Fat Bus Bloke" of the publictransportexperience.blogspot.com blog was involved in that, I believe.

gazthomas said:

Other islands with fair inferior bus services are available

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Anything in Scotland where Stagecoach is the prime/only operator.

Bletchleyite said:

"Fat Bus Bloke" of the publictransportexperience.blogspot.com blog was involved in that, I believe.

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FBB (aka Peter White) was indeed the man behind the Great British Bus Time Table (GBBTT), produced in association with the then independent Southern Vectis but with support with DfT, Stagecoach, Blazefield, First, Go Ahead and Arriva.

It was quite interesting for bus enthusiasts (and still is for a historical record) but on a practical basis, it was pretty useless. Produced twice yearly, it was often out of date and most timetables were restricted to 5/6 main timing points.

With Traveline and new technology, it really became moribund. However, FBB continues to have a bitter personal animosity against Traveline.

TheGrandWazoo said:

It was quite interesting for bus enthusiasts (and still is for a historical record) but on a practical basis, it was pretty useless. Produced twice yearly, it was often out of date and most timetables were restricted to 5/6 main timing points.

With Traveline and new technology, it really became moribund. However, FBB continues to have a bitter personal animosity against Traveline.

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It never pretended to be something that could be relied upon for up-to-date information. They clearly stated that you needed to call up if timings were critical, and it gave you phone numbers for each timetable. It was intended to be a rough guide to what services were available.

If I recall, they wanted the government to use their database for bus information and if they had the government support given to Traveline, it presumably would have been accurate. It is ludicrous that, nearly 20 years on, Traveline still can't tell you the fare!

user1234 said:

For some reason all of our islands (Isle Of Wight / Jersey / Guernsey / Isle Of Man) seem to have some of the best bus services in the UK (far better than the mainland) with frequent routes all around the islands and plenty of late night bus services and night bus services. Even on Christmas Day the Isle Of Wight had a network of routes running hourly all day until around midnight. Its also interesting to note that Go Ahead Southern Vectis are the one and only bus operator on the entire island. I am very surprised that so far no other bus operators have decided to compete or run any routes on the island.

I do find that their fares are ridiculously expensive though. Just a one day ticket costs £10.00 just for the island alone. To put that in to comparison for £9.00 you can buy a Discovery ticket covering one day of travel on buses in pretty much all of Kent / Hampshire / Surrey / Sussex on almost all bus operators. All of their Single and Return fares are very expensive as well and cost far more than they would on the mainland. I guess it is due to the fact that they have a complete monopoly so they can just charge what they want as they know that people will have no other choice but to pay it. The other islands (Guernsey / Isle Of Man / Jersey) also have monopolies yet they charge very cheap fares (much cheaper than the mainland) so there is really no need for Go Ahead Southern Vectis to charge so high.

They do produce good publicity on the Isle Of Wight though. It is good to see that they still have a paper timetable booklet available as well as maps of their bus services.

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I think you answered your own question as to why Southern Vectis face no competition on the IoW - any operator could only really compete on price, and that'd be unlikely to produce a good outcome for them in the long run!

On the subject of day tickets, First Kernow's cost £12 on app, £13 on the bus and are purely for use on their services. Cornwall is a long, thin county and a satisfactory round day trip taking in a lot of interesting places just on FK's buses would, imo, be near to impossible, without retracing your steps quite a bit. During peak summer months it might in theory be a little bit more doable, but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone other than a bus freak.

LivingBelowYM said:

It never pretended to be something that could be relied upon for up-to-date information. They clearly stated that you needed to call up if timings were critical, and it gave you phone numbers for each timetable. It was intended to be a rough guide to what services were available.

If I recall, they wanted the government to use their database for bus information and if they had the government support given to Traveline, it presumably would have been accurate. It is ludicrous that, nearly 20 years on, Traveline still can't tell you the fare!

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Yes, you're absolutely right, it was a valuable public service, just like Middleton Press issuing a National Rail timetable. It's hardly the publishers fault that info becomes out of date so quickly! I rarely attempt to use Traveline, I find it so frustrating.

LivingBelowYM said:

It never pretended to be something that could be relied upon for up-to-date information. They clearly stated that you needed to call up if timings were critical, and it gave you phone numbers for each timetable. It was intended to be a rough guide to what services were available.

If I recall, they wanted the government to use their database for bus information and if they had the government support given to Traveline, it presumably would have been accurate. It is ludicrous that, nearly 20 years on, Traveline still can't tell you the fare!

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That is true enough but it still doesn’t get away from its limitations nor the axe grinding that FBB indulges in with Traveline.

As with the national rail timetable, good for reference and enthusiasts but limited for the average Joe Public (and yes, I did purchase most of not all GBBTTs so I do recognise its value and usefulness to some).

user1234 said:

For some reason all of our islands (Isle Of Wight / Jersey / Guernsey / Isle Of Man) seem to have some of the best bus services in the UK (far better than the mainland) with frequent routes all around the islands and plenty of late night bus services and night bus services. Even on Christmas Day the Isle Of Wight had a network of routes running hourly all day until around midnight. Its also interesting to note that Go Ahead Southern Vectis are the one and only bus operator on the entire island. I am very surprised that so far no other bus operators have decided to compete or run any routes on the island.

I do find that their fares are ridiculously expensive though. Just a one day ticket costs £10.00 just for the island alone. To put that in to comparison for £9.00 you can buy a Discovery ticket covering one day of travel on buses in pretty much all of Kent / Hampshire / Surrey / Sussex on almost all bus operators. All of their Single and Return fares are very expensive as well and cost far more than they would on the mainland. I guess it is due to the fact that they have a complete monopoly so they can just charge what they want as they know that people will have no other choice but to pay it. The other islands (Guernsey / Isle Of Man / Jersey) also have monopolies yet they charge very cheap fares (much cheaper than the mainland) so there is really no need for Go Ahead Southern Vectis to charge so high.

They do produce good publicity on the Isle Of Wight though. It is good to see that they still have a paper timetable booklet available as well as maps of their bus services.

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The Isle of Man isn't 'your' Island though, and isn't a member of the uk.

Yes well i suppose i meant the British Isles to be exact.

Busaholic said:

I think you answered your own question as to why Southern Vectis face no competition on the IoW - any operator could only really compete on price, and that'd be unlikely to produce a good outcome for them in the long run!

On the subject of day tickets, First Kernow's cost £12 on app, £13 on the bus and are purely for use on their services. Cornwall is a long, thin county and a satisfactory round day trip taking in a lot of interesting places just on FK's buses would, imo, be near to impossible, without retracing your steps quite a bit. During peak summer months it might in theory be a little bit more doable, but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone other than a bus freak.

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The Ride Cornwall ticket (only available after 0900 weekdays) is also £13, but is valid on the whole of the rail network, as far as Plymouth, along with at least the Cornish operations of Plymouth Citybus, in addition to First.

user1234 said:

Yes well i suppose i meant the British Isles to be exact.

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However, the tax and public spending regimes of all the other places mentioned are different to the Isle of Wight.
Southern Vectis used to operate two fare scales - a higher one in summer, when extra routes were provided, and a lower one for the lesser service in the winter. I don't know whether that still applies.
Another problem, frequently discussed on this forum, is the reimbursement rates for the English National Concessionary Travel Scheme. Government funding is largely based on resident population, and makes no allowance for visitors, of which the island still receives many. I suspect the council is at the lower end of the reimbursement scale, which results in adult fare levels being increased to try to balance the books.

user1234 said:

For some reason all of our islands (Isle Of Wight / Jersey / Guernsey / Isle Of Man) seem to have some of the best bus services in the UK (far better than the mainland) with frequent routes all around the islands and plenty of late night bus services and night bus services. Even on Christmas Day the Isle Of Wight had a network of routes running hourly all day until around midnight. Its also interesting to note that Go Ahead Southern Vectis are the one and only bus operator on the entire island. I am very surprised that so far no other bus operators have decided to compete or run any routes on the island.

I do find that their fares are ridiculously expensive though. Just a one day ticket costs £10.00 just for the island alone. To put that in to comparison for £9.00 you can buy a Discovery ticket covering one day of travel on buses in pretty much all of Kent / Hampshire / Surrey / Sussex on almost all bus operators. All of their Single and Return fares are very expensive as well and cost far more than they would on the mainland. I guess it is due to the fact that they have a complete monopoly so they can just charge what they want as they know that people will have no other choice but to pay it. The other islands (Guernsey / Isle Of Man / Jersey) also have monopolies yet they charge very cheap fares (much cheaper than the mainland) so there is really no need for Go Ahead Southern Vectis to charge so high.

They do produce good publicity on the Isle Of Wight though. It is good to see that they still have a paper timetable booklet available as well as maps of their bus services.

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But Jersey, Gurnsey and IOM are all effectively state run with public subsidy - the first two tendered, the latter run directly by a Government department. The Isle of Wight is wholly commercial.

Cesarcollie said:

But Jersey, Gurnsey and IOM are all effectively state run with public subsidy - the first two tendered, the latter run directly by a Government department. The Isle of Wight is wholly commercial.

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I think the IoW is a curious commercial demonstration of a tourist tax. The short period fares are very high, while the seasons are not terribly priced.

Man of Kent said:

The Ride Cornwall ticket (only available after 0900 weekdays) is also £13, but is valid on the whole of the rail network, as far as Plymouth, along with at least the Cornish operations of Plymouth Citybus, in addition to First.

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If you have a Railcard the Ride Cornwall ticket can be purchased from rail stations for only £10.75. For those of us in our early 60’s who have a Senior Railcard but won’t now get a concessionary bus pass until we are 66/67, this is a fantastic alternative to the overpriced First Kernow Day Ticket.