Comparison of railway building projects in China and Britain

Moderator note: split from East-West Rail: Progress and updates

Watch from 55 seconds in. In 2008 China's high speed railway infrastructure consisted of a very short track. Now? Oh my God. They even build railways just because cities in the middle of nowhere because they want people to be connected.

My policy is the same. Building is building for the future. It creates jobs, a better economy for the working class and its a statement of a country that is proud to build railways. It gets cars off the roads and its greener. I know that China plays by different rules to us Brits but in contrast they are making the democracies of the world an embarrassment. If for every project you worry about returns on money your likely to cross a lot of projects off the list. I'm going to assume we have the talent and the workforce has the will. I can only assume the people with the money are the only people blocking such projects.

The problem I see is that railways are just not fashionable in the UK anymore and all the negative coverage in the media is not helping such matters. Its probably right to say that if we got the currently built railway systems into ship shape and it ran well then the template for more better railways would easier to swallow.

are you actually comparing China and the UK? Goodness me. Please try some research.

DarloRich said:

are you actually comparing China and the UK? Goodness me. Please try some research.

Click to expand...

Not comparing like for like. The video is research enough though isn't it. We are doing what we are doing and they are doing what they are doing. If I were comparing anything it would be the attitude to do anything, quick, efficiently and at a decent cost. Didn't a politician go to China in the past 5 years talking about bringing their workforce here to build railways?

EWR is 6 month project on China's time lines.

richieb1971 said:

Not comparing like for like. The video is research enough though isn't it. We are doing what we are doing and they are doing what they are doing. If I were comparing anything it would be the attitude to do anything, quick, efficiently and at a decent cost. Didn't a politician go to China in the past 5 years talking about bringing their workforce here to build railways?

EWR is 6 month project on China's time lines.

Click to expand...

Come on. China? You cant think why things might be done quickly in a communist country?

richieb1971 said:

Watch from 55 seconds in. In 2008 China's high speed railway infrastructure consisted of a very short track. Now? Oh my God. They even build railways just because cities in the middle of nowhere because they want people to be connected.

Click to expand...

China has the advantage of not having to worry about UK planning laws, local democracy or Nimbys.

camflyer said:

China has the advantage of not having to worry about UK planning laws, local democracy or Nimbys.

Click to expand...

… well, you say that, but there are the “nail houses”, remember. NIMBYs with nunchucks …

https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...les-residents-refused-leave/story?id=32635243

[…]

“One of the most famous nail houses belonged to Yang Wu and Wu Ping of Chongqing.

“Developers dug a 33-foot-deep pit around their home-restaurant in an attempt to force them out. In rebellion, Yang Wu, a local martial arts champion, reportedly used nunchucks to build a ladder up the pit, and threatened to beat up any official who tried to evict the couple.”

https://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-house-in-the-middle-of-the-road-2012-11?IR=T

“When the government decided to build a highway to Wenling, a town in China's Zhejiang province, it offered everyone in the neighborhood compensation to relocate.

“But farmer Luo Baogen and his wife refused to move, saying the compensation wasn't enough for them to rebuild their home elsewhere.

“Faced with Luo's refusal to leave, the government decided to go ahead and build the road around it anyway”

[…]

And there is a form of local democracy in China, too, and it isn't as completely opaque and undemocratic as you might expect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_China#Local_People's_Congresses — too long to quote and definitely off topic, but very interesting!

UK planning laws definitely not any concern though

camflyer said:

China has the advantage of not having to worry about UK planning laws, local democracy or Nimbys.

Click to expand...

Or probably safety regulations either

CdBrux said:

Or probably safety regulations either

Click to expand...

The track of high-speed railway in China is closed and well protected, so the driver doesn't need to worry about a cow rush into the route. And all the things are newly built, but UK's railway assets are inherited from hundreds of years ago.

There was a terrible safety incident in 2011 which killed 40 people, the safety regulation and signaling system became better after that, and the high-speed railway is a reliable national name card now. But the real problem is, the China Railway is affording trillions of debt, which keep increasing by billions every year from railway construction, operations and overseas expansion. The 2020's target is 150,000 km's high-speed railway and now there are still 20,000 away to the target, so the debt has to increase. Meanwhile, the ticket price of high-speed railway in China is too low, say from Guangzhou to Wuhan, 968km journey for only ¥463.5 (53.91 gbp), which is not enough to server the cost but it has to be set to such an affordable price for the citizens.

Therefore, to fill in the black hole of the debt, China Railway tried many financial tricks and the government's help to balance the debt and reduce the interest. Sometimes I'm thinking about whether China or UK's approach is better. Yeah China's approach can build everything instantly but left the high-risk management and financial loopholes to the future. The UK's approach is too slow but it's a balanced and sustainable way. God who knows

Can not be compared due to lack of democracy.

Groningen said:

Can not be compared due to lack of democracy.

Click to expand...

But France and Germany also have good high speed rail networks, l don't think they are also lack of democracy.

UK has planning laws that have to be followed even by the government.In China you dont oppose the state their say goes.