Was there time/staff to issue stop orders in time?
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Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018
- Thread starter blakey1152
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Was there time/staff to issue stop orders in time?
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I sampled the Rainham service once out pf interest and it takes a long long time to make it out of London with very frequent stops although there are a few omissions.. woolwich dockyard Erith and belvedere from memory
Would it make sense to alternate some of the stops or do all stations require the high frequency? Deptford to Abbeywood is painfully slow
Would it make sense to alternate some of the stops or do all stations require the high frequency? Deptford to Abbeywood is painfully slow
Class315
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Moorgate was closed due to a shortage of staff between the times you listed due to a rostering error, one member of staff was down there for a short period of time and the station was closed. Moorgate needs two members of staff during business hours except at night when the night supervisor covers from the Staff Train down to Finsbury Park anytime after 00:30 until it re-arrives 05:00. No trains where diverted or affected as Staff where drafted in from Finsbury Park as Arsenal where playing their was surplus from the crowd control staff, just to cover the error until the intended staff member booked on.
OwenB
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So, second day in and it looks like it's fallen apart somewhat on GN. Outers 66%, Inners 73%. Crew unavailability, train faults...
Yes but there was no way GTR were going to delay an on time fast Peterborough to Kings Cross into a slow stopper.
Inners should look better soon as two trains affected this morning makes a big impact on the percentage. One due to a train not prepped and another for a driver running late. Hopefully not a recurring issue all day.
OwenB
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You'd have hoped, but it's now sitting at 67%.
Failed Unit
Established Member
The outers on great Northern are suffering from drivers in the wrong place this morning. The driver of ours said the delays are snowballing. Typical GTR. But suspect it is all network rails fault.
Class315
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Isn’t that WGC stop on selected early morning and late night services also considered a Staff pick up/drop etc.
I had a new one last night: I boarded a northbound train at Cambridge, which had a driver at the front, but no driver to detach the rear 4 coaches! The train sat in Cambridge for 10 minutes rather than the usual 5 whilst, I presume, the one driver who was present ran back and forth doing the necessary work in both halves of the train.
Yes, but it was cancelled this morning (well, terminated at SVG to run back quickly to form another train). The idea being that people at Stevenage could change to the Brighton train for services to the core and to beyond (how many people go all the way to Horsham?) and WGC passengers could also get the Brighton train for the same reason.
While the train is more for staff, it does now have rather a lot of people use it because it goes through the core.
Class315
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Indeed, it turned via Langely Junction and performed a Zulu service on the down back to Peterborough. I’m under the impression that the Brighton stopped additionally to ferry Welwyn based drivers to WGC nearer to the time the original service was due to stop at Welwyn to enable services off the yard to depart on time.
I think it was for both reasons. I imagine the 0522 WGC train is considered a 'golden' train and when it had to be caped 'for the greater good' this solution was good for everyone and demonstrated that control can get things right!
It does seem that a lot of drivers get ferried around by taxi and for some reason many taxis are arriving late. I am not sure what the solution is here, but it isn't good that trains can be cancelled or heavily delayed because of a local taxi firm picking someone up late. It's not as if there are many road accidents or other traffic issues around 0300-0400.
The 0712 Baldock to Kings Cross service made additional stops at WGC and Finsbury Park this morning. The driver made an announcement while we were calling at Welwyn North though no reason was given. I couldn't see many people on the platform at WGC though I was towards the back of the train.
bramling
Veteran Member
The reason it's a "golden" train would no doubt be because it normally carries a pretty hefty number of railway staff - GTR, LNER and LU, plus a few EMT and VT heading for St Pancras or Euston. The consequences of issues with that one will be quite far-reaching.
NorthKent1989
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Before the timetable change only
Abbey Wood, Woolwich Arsenal and Charlton had 8tph the rest had 6tph with shacks between Dartford/Greenhithe & Gravesend being 2tph, personally this service should be fast since it goes all the way to Medway, but the issue with that would be the stations on the Greenwich line except Greenwich itself would be reduced to 4tph which isn’t good, in the long term this stopping pattern has to change if it’s to crest faster links across London
Minstral25
Established Member
Whilst this train doesn't mean much for the Peterborough and Stevenage crowd to get to Horsham at 5:15 in the morning. It gets a lot busier by Purley, Redhill and Horley as passengers are waiting to get to work in Gatwick, Crawley and Horsham at 6:30 in the morning.
At Merstham and Earlswood for example it was a 50 minute wait for the next Southbound train.
bramling
Veteran Member
Not a wonderful day today thus far. Bad morning with loads of northbound services from the core running typically 10-15 late on the GN side. Afternoon was reasonably okay, then loads of late running through the evening peak again.
On a different note, will we see a 365 reach Kings Lynn some time over the next couple of weeks carrying the Queen to Sandringham?! It was GTR themselves who said she prefers 365s...
Let’s hope a 365 makes it to Kings Lynn with HM on board. Must’ve been pretty embarrassing for GTR to have to admit that the Queen said she preferred the old trains
Failed Unit
Established Member
Let’s hope a 365 makes it to Kings Lynn with HM on board. Must’ve been pretty embarrassing for GTR to have to admit that the Queen said she preferred the old trains
I doubt any passenger who has paid for first class likes the 387 - considering it hasn’t really got first class accommodation.
Let’s hope a 365 makes it to Kings Lynn with HM on board. Must’ve been pretty embarrassing for GTR to have to admit that the Queen said she preferred the old trains
I imagine she'll be held awaiting a platform and driver at Finsbury Park, then due to late running the Queen will be turfed out on a cold platform at Hitchin and told to catch the next service which should be along in an hour or so. Until HRH exclaims 'off with their heads', and then the GTR supremo's will blame Network Rail. Ooh, I've just given their former CEO a gong for services to railways.
Let’s hope a 365 makes it to Kings Lynn with HM on board. Must’ve been pretty embarrassing for GTR to have to admit that the Queen said she preferred the old trains
I think everyone thinks the 365s are one of the best train interior layouts ever, but they just weren't/aren't suitable for modern times and needs. It's good that they still run on GN at all, and it wouldn't be just the Queen that misses them when they finally go.
bramling
Veteran Member
I really don’t get this idea that they’re somehow not suitable for modern needs. They’re getting wi-fi which seems to be the current fad, and they’re already accessibility complaint (less the handful of units which for some strange reason haven’t got the new toilets).
Apart from that they have a decent wide aisle for standing, and a decent seat capacity relative to the length of the train. Sure they’re not perfect for the most intensive work (although they’re not bad at that either) but for everything else the layout works very well indeed. They’re a damn sight nicer to travel on than the 700s, and the 387s for that matter - especially when they had the old interior.
The fact that there are people - regular passengers not enthusiasts - prepared to experience a longer overall journey time in order to catch the 365 services says it all really.
There's no reason the 700s couldn't have been fitted with a 365 style interior. It would've been a much better passenger experience.
If the seating was wider (with more gap between seats and the wall) the major benefit - a super wide aisle - would be lost.
In an ideal world, there would have been sufficient unit numbers to have different internal configurations, but we don't live in an ideal world. Even the old Thameslink had to give up different internal layouts.
That is true, but it still doesn't make it right for many commuters, who are spending thousands of pounds a year in season ticket fares, to be standing and unable to get a seat on a journey of 30 minutes or more. It's not the occasional occurrence, but repeated for many with daily regularity.
It is likely passenger numbers will continue to rise in the medium to long-term on the Thameslink route. My biggest concern it would be too late to order additional compatible carriages because Siemens had finished production of the model. This is exactly what happened with class 221/222 units as the stock is now out of production.
Ordering 20-24 more carriages now using the £15m penalty and inserting them into 5 or 6 existing 700/0 to make them 700/1 would ensure maximum train lengths are available on all routes to/from Bedford and Peterborough. And they could also supplement on any semi-fast services to/from Luton.
There is an option for more orders isn't there? Plus I'd have more faith that Siemens could make more trains in 5 or 10 years time to be compatible with the current 700s than, say, Bombardier who seem to struggle to get anything right these days.
The 365s can't remain forever. New signalling and a desire to have all drivers self-dispatching means the 365s are a problem. It means drivers either looking at platform screens that won't likely be working or maintained forever, or using platform staff that seems even more unlikely (staff may remain, but they won't be dispatching except in emergencies).
So when the 365s go, what comes in to replace them?
The 365s can't remain forever. New signalling and a desire to have all drivers self-dispatching means the 365s are a problem. It means drivers either looking at platform screens that won't likely be working or maintained forever, or using platform staff that seems even more unlikely (staff may remain, but they won't be dispatching except in emergencies).
So when the 365s go, what comes in to replace them?
bramling
Veteran Member
I’d imagine the obvious replacement for 365s would be some kind of cascade taking 387s from elsewhere. There’s various ways that could be achieved.
I’m sure there were plans afoot at one point to fit both ETCS and in-cab dispatch monitors to the 365s.
100mph might have been a handicap in a world of 110 and 125mph trains until we remember that the 700 is 100mph too!
The longer the 365s last as is, the less chance of them being retrospectively upgraded for such a big project that will a) be expensive b) may not work! They never got air conditioning and STILL don't even have CCTV despite the recent PIS upgrade. Some are getting Wi-Fi but this is running very late too.
The 365s can probably be cascaded elsewhere for others to enjoy them. Ideally getting refurbished to return to their original layout (we can dream!).
I am no fan of the 387s. They seem ill fitted for GN, having 2+2 seating (nice) but having no room (not nice). If GTR could replace the 387s and 365s in one go with more 700s, but create a sub-fleet with a different interior (and GN branding rather than TL) then that might work. But I am not holding out much hope.
The 365s can probably be cascaded elsewhere for others to enjoy them. Ideally getting refurbished to return to their original layout (we can dream!).
I am no fan of the 387s. They seem ill fitted for GN, having 2+2 seating (nice) but having no room (not nice). If GTR could replace the 387s and 365s in one go with more 700s, but create a sub-fleet with a different interior (and GN branding rather than TL) then that might work. But I am not holding out much hope.
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