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Parisian Rail Termini - Geographic Service Areas

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ABB125

ABB125

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Hello,

I'm interested in finding out what different services to which parts of France are operated from which of Paris's termini, eg: hish speed trains to the south (east) leave from Gare de Lyon.
From the railway lines going into Paris, going clockwise, I would expect something along the lines of:
Nord: services to the north east, Belgium, Lille etc plus Normandy
Est: services to the east, Reims, Germany etc
Lyon: services to the south east, Lyon, Marseille etc, plus TGVs to Spain
Bercy: services as above, minus the TGVs (Bercy station appears to be similar to London Bridge, with both terminal and through platforms, the difference being only one terminal connected to the through platforms (Lyon) rather than two (Charing Cross and Cannon Street))
Austerlitz: services to the south, Orleans, Toulouse etc
Montparnasse: services to the south west, Bordeaux etc plus TGVs to the west, le Man's etc
St Lazare: remaining services to Brittany and Normandy etc
Have I missed out any stations?

Secondly, what kind of traffic is predominant at which termini, eg: X is mostly commuter traffic, or are all the stations fairly mixed?

Thirdly, are there any quirks in the services operated? To give an example for London, nearly all services to East Anglia operate from Liverpool Street, but if you want a fast train to Cambridge you need to go from Kings Cross. (Separately, are there any other quirks like this in London, as I can't think of any more off the top of my head?)

Finally, are there any other interesting titbits you could tell me about?

Thanks for any replies, and apologies for any autocorrect errors (I have tried to correct them!).
 
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dutchflyer

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It was eminently clear untill those TGVs came-even the table-nrs for the various directions were aimed at the Paris-termini. TGVs disrupted this-f.e. Austerlitz was put into minor use as Montprns got the TGV's to the South-west. You may think of this as ''quirk,, if you like that.
Bercy is a total-end-station AFAIK, nothing like LB. Its an overflow for Lyon with minor services and was virtually closed many years. Its also the main busstation for OUI-bus.
St. Lazare, then Nord has the highest % of commuters-as its long-dist are quite sparse. However, the RER-tunnels (like crosslink-many, many years before LON got it) took away a lot of that. 2 former minor end-termini were in fact totally removed by the first east-west RER.
 
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k-c-p

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Bercy is served by Intercité services to Auvergne (to Clermont-Ferrand) and Bourgogne (to Nevers). The station has been renamed to "Paris-Bercy-Bourgogne-Pays d'Auvergne" to reflect this.

Some of these services used to terminate at Paris-Lyon but were moved to Bercy to free up capacity for TGVs at Paris-Lyon when the LGV Rhin-Rhône went into service.
 
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STEVIEBOY1

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I think a friend of mine took a sleeper train from Bercy within the last ten years to Switzerland.
 
LNW-GW Joint

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Bercy (a terminus) also hosts the TER services on the old PLM line via Dijon (used to run to/from Paris Lyon).
I gather Austerlitz, currently very quiet, is being enlarged by 4 platforms and will take overflow (inc TGV) from Lyon and Montparnasse in the future.
However I think that is dependent on new connections around Paris and may not happen in that form.
Lyon/Bercy/Austerlitz are of course very close together in SE Paris on opposite banks of the Seine and can share the approach infrastructure further out.

Est still serves the line to Troyes/Belfort/Mulhouse (with bi-modes).
 
SHD

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Invalides used to be a terminus station, as well as Orsay. Interestingly they also were the first (non-streetcar, non-metro) electrified French stations. Both had long-distance traffic (Invalides towards southwestern Normandy and Brittany, Orsay towards Orléans and further)
 
SHD

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Since you seem to like quirks: the stations without international traffic are Montparnasse, Saint-Lazare, Austerlitz, and Bercy. Yet, all four of them had international connections in the past.
 
SHD

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FelixtheCat said:
Don't some services from Montparnasse continue over the border to Irun?
Click to expand...

Indeed, that used to be the case... until last year.
The reason seems to be that, since the opening of the SEA HSL, Duplex TGVs operate the Paris-Hendaye route, and they are not certified for the (very short) section of ADIF network.
 
30907

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Two purely suburban termini:
Paris-Bastille closed about 1970 and its services were transferred to RER A and
Paris-Luxembourg similarly was absorbed by Ligne B.
One other little detail:
Services to Northern Switzerland and beyond via Bale/Basel historically left from Est but now go from Lyon via Dijon and the TGV Rhin-Rhone. That may IIRC eventually change back.
 
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leytongabriel

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Quirck-wise you've also got Paris Montparnasse Vaugirard which is an overspill for Montparnasse but not as far away as Bercy is for Lyon.Just an incovenient 5-8m hike with bits of travelator and photo posters to ease the pain. In fact they've put up signing in the main station describing it as 'Salle 3'. It offers trains to Normandy (the Granville line) and more recently OVIGO low-cost TGV services.
 
30907

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Billy A said:
I think the joke may have rather passed over you!
Click to expand...
Most puns are country-specific (and age- and class-specific for that matter), and I think k-c-p is one of our non-UK members.
And I had to Google Melina, despite my advanced age.
 
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SHD

SHD

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30907 said:
Most puns are country-specific (and age- and class-specific for that matter), and I think k-c-p is one of our non-UK members.
And I had to Google Melina, despite my advanced age.
Click to expand...

If I am not mistaken Jules Dassin was a French resident when Jamais le dimanche was filmed.
 
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k-c-p

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I think the joke may have rather passed over you
Click to expand...
Yes, you got me there :). I do not know Jules Dassins film.

I think k-c-p is one of our non-UK members.
Click to expand...
Correct.

Nevers on a Sunday is a perfect definition for ennui.
Click to expand...

So, a TGVEnnui might be a more appropriate connection on a Sunday instead of an Intercité ;).

Cheers from Germany
Charly
 
SHD

SHD

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So, a TGVEnnui might be a more appropriate connection on a Sunday instead of an Intercité ;).
[/QUOTE]

That’s an excellent joke :D

Quirk : the beautiful facade of Gare du Nord is decorated with statues that represent the cities which had direct service from the station. I’ll let you peruse them
 
TRAX

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ABB125 said:
Hello,

I'm interested in finding out what different services to which parts of France are operated from which of Paris's termini, eg: hish speed trains to the south (east) leave from Gare de Lyon.
From the railway lines going into Paris, going clockwise, I would expect something along the lines of:
Nord: services to the north east, Belgium, Lille etc plus Normandy
Est: services to the east, Reims, Germany etc
Lyon: services to the south east, Lyon, Marseille etc, plus TGVs to Spain
Bercy: services as above, minus the TGVs (Bercy station appears to be similar to London Bridge, with both terminal and through platforms, the difference being only one terminal connected to the through platforms (Lyon) rather than two (Charing Cross and Cannon Street))
Austerlitz: services to the south, Orleans, Toulouse etc
Montparnasse: services to the south west, Bordeaux etc plus TGVs to the west, le Man's etc
St Lazare: remaining services to Brittany and Normandy etc
Have I missed out any stations?

Secondly, what kind of traffic is predominant at which termini, eg: X is mostly commuter traffic, or are all the stations fairly mixed?

Thirdly, are there any quirks in the services operated? To give an example for London, nearly all services to East Anglia operate from Liverpool Street, but if you want a fast train to Cambridge you need to go from Kings Cross. (Separately, are there any other quirks like this in London, as I can't think of any more off the top of my head?)

Finally, are there any other interesting titbits you could tell me about?

Thanks for any replies, and apologies for any autocorrect errors (I have tried to correct them!).
Click to expand...

You basically got it all right.
Montparnasse serves Brittany.

For your second question - almost all stations have high speed rail (the exceptions being Paris St-Lazare, Paris Bercy and Paris Austerlitz). They all have regional and/or national main line services (TER and/or Intercités). They almost all have suburban/commuter/regional-commuter services from the main station itself or a suburban extension below it (Paris Bercy doesn’t have any suburban/commuter services at all). So Paris St-Lazare has lines L and J for the southwestern/western/northwestern suburbs from the main surface station and RER line E to the east from the underground Haussmann St-Lazare station; Paris-Nord has lines H and K for the northern suburbs from the main surface station and RER lines B and D for the north too from the underground Gare du Nord station. Paris-Est has line P for the eastern suburbs from the main surface station, and RER line E from the underground Magenta station (which is also linked to Paris-Nord).
Paris-Lyon has line R for the south-east from the main surface station and RER line D from the underground Gare de Lyon station, also for the south-east.
Paris-Austerlitz doesn’t have suburban/commuter services itself, but its underground Gare d’Austerlitz station has Line C which serves the south-east, south, south-west, centre, and north-west of the region.
Finally, Paris-Montparnasse has line N, which serves the southwestern and western suburbs from the main surface station.

Mind you, when I mention ‘suburbs’, I also take into account the outer part of the Ile-de-France region (as Transilien trains go to the border of it) which is more regional than suburban traffic, albeit with stations which can be quite close to each other.

You can also get RER line A from Gare de Lyon for the (closer) eastern suburbs, and from other stations in Paris which aren’t linked to any main stations. The same goes for RER line B for the southern suburbs.
There also is line U which serves the western and southwestern suburbs but this one is a bit of an exception as it doesn’t serve Paris (the closest it gets is La Défense (also served by lines A and L for the west)) and doesn’t actually have any trackage to itself, apart from a very small section where it goes from the western network (with line L) to the southwestern network (with lines C and N) just before Versailles.

There aren’t that many ‘quirks’ as you mention them - basically the national network radiates from these stations and the lines from one main Parisian station rarely meet up with other lines from other main Parisian stations.

What kind of interesting ‘titbits’ are you after ?

SHD said:
Quirk : the beautiful facade of Gare du Nord is decorated with statues that represent the cities which had direct service from the station. I’ll let you peruse them
Click to expand...

But don’t get too distracted while doing so as that area is full of pickpockets and other charming thieving delights.

In case any of you guys are interested, SNCF Réseau (the french infrastructure manager) has a few geographical maps of the whole french railway network (30 000 km), with several types: for example maps with maximum speeds, types of electrification, and a general map showing the different types of trackage.
 
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S

STEVIEBOY1

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SHD said:
Indeed, that used to be the case... until last year.
The reason seems to be that, since the opening of the SEA HSL, Duplex TGVs operate the Paris-Hendaye route, and they are not certified for the (very short) section of ADIF network.
Click to expand...

So if one is going to Spain or Portugal, do the Spanish/Portuguese trains serve Irun then come over to Hendaye now?

When I was going to Porto a few years ago, the TGV should have gone through to Irun, but owing to industrial action, it terminated at Hendaye and we were bused over which did not take long. On the return the train from Portugal did stop at Irun first then came over to Hendaye where it was an easy transfer to the TGV to Paris.
 
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MarcVD

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Yes the spanish train (I think there is only one, the Sud Express going to Lisbon) in now starting from Hendaye.
 
ABB125

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TRAX said:
You basically got it all right.
Montparnasse serves Brittany.

For your second question - almost all stations have high speed rail (the exceptions being Paris St-Lazare, Paris Bercy and Paris Austerlitz). They all have regional and/or national main line services (TER and/or Intercités). They almost all have suburban/commuter/regional-commuter services from the main station itself or a suburban extension below it (Paris Bercy doesn’t have any suburban/commuter services at all). So Paris St-Lazare has lines L and J for the southwestern/western/northwestern suburbs from the main surface station and RER line E to the east from the underground Haussmann St-Lazare station; Paris-Nord has lines H and K for the northern suburbs from the main surface station and RER lines B and D for the north too from the underground Gare du Nord station. Paris-Est has line P for the eastern suburbs from the main surface station, and RER line E from the underground Magenta station (which is also linked to Paris-Nord).
Paris-Lyon has line R for the south-east from the main surface station and RER line D from the underground Gare de Lyon station, also for the south-east.
Paris-Austerlitz doesn’t have suburban/commuter services itself, but its underground Gare d’Austerlitz station has Line C which serves the south-east, south, south-west, centre, and north-west of the region.
Finally, Paris-Montparnasse has line N, which serves the southwestern and western suburbs from the main surface station.

Mind you, when I mention ‘suburbs’, I also take into account the outer part of the Ile-de-France region (as Transilien trains go to the border of it) which is more regional than suburban traffic, albeit with stations which can be quite close to each other.

You can also get RER line A from Gare de Lyon for the (closer) eastern suburbs, and from other stations in Paris which aren’t linked to any main stations. The same goes for RER line B for the southern suburbs.
There also is line U which serves the western and southwestern suburbs but this one is a bit of an exception as it doesn’t serve Paris (the closest it gets is La Défense (also served by lines A and L for the west)) and doesn’t actually have any trackage to itself, apart from a very small section where it goes from the western network (with line L) to the southwestern network (with lines C and N) just before Versailles.

There aren’t that many ‘quirks’ as you mention them - basically the national network radiates from these stations and the lines from one main Parisian station rarely meet up with other lines from other main Parisian stations.

What kind of interesting ‘titbits’ are you after ?



But don’t get too distracted while doing so as that area is full of pickpockets and other charming thieving delights.

In case any of you guys are interested, SNCF Réseau (the french infrastructure manager) has a few geographical maps of the whole french railway network (30 000 km), with several types: for example maps with maximum speeds, types of electrification, and a general map showing the different types of trackage.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply. Titbits=anything interesting.
Do you have a link to the maps you mention? IvI' had a quick look, but can't seem to find them.
 
SHD

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E707DD2B-D233-4178-967A-8918FBE9E8E5.jpeg

ABB125 said:
Thanks for the reply. Titbits=anything interesting.
Do you have a link to the maps you mention? IvI' had a quick look, but can't seem to find them.
Click to expand...

Ok, here is a tidbit for you. If you go to Montparnasse and look at the buffers at one of the main platforms (2-24), you will notice a handwritten milepost which, contrarily to what one might think for a terminus station, is not zero (See my picture: 0+426 - i.e. 0 km, 426 m).


Why is that ? I will let you look around a little bit ;)
 
Peter Mugridge

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SHD said:
Ok, here is a tidbit for you. If you go to Montparnasse and look at the buffers at one of the main platforms (2-24), you will notice a handwritten milepost which, contrarily to what one might think for a terminus station, is not zero (See my picture: 0+426 - i.e. 0 km, 426 m).


Why is that ? I will let you look around a little bit ;)
Click to expand...

That's easy isn't it? The buffer stops are not where they originally were... the concourse has been made wider and the tracks shortened a bit as a result.
 
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