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[Trivia] Most Offpeak Termini For The Same Bus Route Number

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tbtc

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The standard Monday-Saturday daytime service pattern of the cross city 120 in Sheffield has four termini (First run Fulwood to Crystal Peaks, Stagecoach run Ranmoor to Halfway, so overlapping between Ranmoor and Crystal Peaks).

So that’s four different off-peak termini for the same route number (ignoring suffixes, prefixes, express versions). There are some journeys which terminate at the Hallamshire Hospital or City Centre, but I’m only talking about the standard off-peak Monday to Saturday timetable.

Some service corridors have more off-peak termini but they are spread over different prefixes/ suffixes (e.g. the 38/38A/38B/38C/38E in Glasgow have half a dozen but that’s five separate versions of the route so not valid for the purpose of this thread).

Plenty of route numbers have three off-peak termini (e.g. the 26/31/33 in Edinburgh have one western terminus but two south/eastern ones though all journeys use the same number), but are there any/many with four or more?

Rules:

  • No variety of prefixes/ suffixes – all vehicles must have the same route number on the front of the vehicle (e.g. the 1 and 1A are different routes, as are the X1 and 1)
  • Routes run by more than one operator are fine, as long as they are clearly part of the same overlapping corridor (e.g. the Transdev 7 in Leeds has clearly nothing to do with the First 7 in that city but there are cities where different operators run slightly different services with the same number along the same corridor)
  • Unadvertised duplicates, peak extras and evening/weekend variations don’t count – I’m only talking about the standard Monday to Saturday off-peak service
  • If in doubt, I’d go with the place on the destination screen (to determine whether there are more than one destination – e.g. different stances in the same bus station wouldn’t count as they’d not be distinguished on the destination screen)
 
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PeterC

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Red Rose route 71 in Bucks manages 4 in the Monday to Friday shopping hours timetable.
 

Megafuss

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The A service in Cambridge has absolutely loads on the core service, and that's before you start counting stuff to the villages.

Trumpington Park and Ride
Long Road College
Cambridge Rail Station
Addenbrooke's Outpatients
Drummer Street Bus Station (Sunday)
St. Ives Park and Ride
St. Ives Hill Rise
St. Ives Marley Road
RAF Wyton
Huntingdon Bus Station
Godmanchester
Buckden
Fenstanton
Boxworth
 

Statto

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Chester has a few, couple of number 1s in Chester, 1 Chester Interchange -Liverpool, also 1 Chester Interchange-Blacon, there's also another 1 Chester Rail Station-Wrexham, was even worse 20 odd years ago when you had load of other 1s, 2s, 3 eccs.
 

Ianno87

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The A service in Cambridge has absolutely loads on the core service, and that's before you start counting stuff to the villages.

Trumpington Park and Ride
Long Road College
Cambridge Rail Station
Addenbrooke's Outpatients
Drummer Street Bus Station (Sunday)
St. Ives Park and Ride
St. Ives Hill Rise
St. Ives Marley Road
RAF Wyton
Huntingdon Bus Station
Godmanchester
Buckden
Fenstanton
Boxworth

Royston these days too!
 

Mal

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Chester has a few, couple of number 1s in Chester, 1 Chester Interchange -Liverpool, also 1 Chester Interchange-Blacon, there's also another 1 Chester Rail Station-Wrexham, was even worse 20 odd years ago when you had load of other 1s, 2s, 3 eccs.
From Chester, Crosville had C1 to Birkenhead, D1 to Wrexham, L1 to Llandudno* and there was a Chester Corporation 1 to Saughall. * I think there were more Crosville '1's from Chester and maybe someone will tell me
!
 

Andyh82

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Chester has a few, couple of number 1s in Chester, 1 Chester Interchange -Liverpool, also 1 Chester Interchange-Blacon, there's also another 1 Chester Rail Station-Wrexham, was even worse 20 odd years ago when you had load of other 1s, 2s, 3 eccs.
That scenario is exactly what the OP doesn’t want
 

Jordan Adam

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Stagecoach North Scotland (Bluebird Buses Ltd)
Service 201 (Aberdeen-Braemar) has 5 different termini:
  1. Aberdeen, Union Square
  2. Banchory, Academy
  3. Glen O'Dee Hospital
  4. Ballater, Golf Road
  5. Braemar, Auchendryne Square
Service X20 (Aberdeen-Alford) has 6:
  1. Aberdeen, Union Square
  2. Kemnay, High Street
  3. Kemnay, Bremner Way
  4. Monymusk Square
  5. Alford Interchange
  6. Alford Community Campus
Service 35 (Aberdeen-Elgin) has 7:
  1. Aberdeen, Union Square
  2. Oldmeldrum Square, Interchange
  3. Turriff, High Street
  4. Macduff, Depot
  5. Banff, Low Street
  6. Deveron Community & Sports Centre
  7. Elgin, Bus Station

Historic Stagecoach Bluebird Services (prior to the North Scotland Merge)
Service 254 (Ellon Town Service) timetable dated from 2006 shows there was 8 termini off peak.
  1. Ellon Park & Ride
  2. Ellon Market Street
  3. Widgeon Way
  4. Modley Avenue
  5. Knockothie
  6. Findhorn Drive
  7. Kidrummy Road
  8. Auchterellon Primary School
If i find any more examples while looking through old timetables i'll post here!
 

Feesh

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Stagecoach East Kent
666 (Faversham - Ashford)

1. Ashford Park St
2. Ashford Rail Station
3. Ashford Hospital
4. Sheldwich School
5. Faversham Court St
6. Faversham Abbey School (Canute Rd)
7. Oare Colegates Cl
8. Bysing wood Leas
9. Luddenham School
 

Jordan Adam

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Stagecoach East Kent
666 (Faversham - Ashford)

1. Ashford Park St
2. Ashford Rail Station
3. Ashford Hospital
4. Sheldwich School
5. Faversham Court St
6. Faversham Abbey School (Canute Rd)
7. Oare Colegates Cl
8. Bysing wood Leas
9. Luddenham School

Having looked at that timetable quite a few (actually most) of those would fall in to the peak period. The only off peak destinations would be.
  1. Faversham, Court Street
  2. Ashford Park Street
 

Strathclyder

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First Glasgow's 266 has four off-peak termini on Mon-Sat and may be this operator's best contender with no letter prefixes.
  • Hamilton Bus Station
  • Newmains Cross
  • West Crindledyke
  • Shotts
 
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higthomas

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S5 in Oxford has 8.5:
Oxford, Speedwell Street (via JR Hospital)
Oxford, Magdalene Street
Bicester, Pioneer Square
Arncott, St George's Barracks
Langford, Perigrine Way
Launton, Station Road
Glory Farm, Boston Road
Bullingdon Prison
Caversfield Turn (departures only)
 

goldisgood

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S5 in Oxford has 8.5:
Oxford, Speedwell Street (via JR Hospital)
Oxford, Magdalene Street
Bicester, Pioneer Square
Arncott, St George's Barracks
Langford, Perigrine Way
Launton, Station Road
Glory Farm, Boston Road
Bullingdon Prison
Caversfield Turn (departures only)
But only 5 of those are off peak - Magdalen Street, Pioneer Square, St George's Barracks, Langford and Launton. The Caversfield workings are peak extras alongside the JR workings, whilst the Glory Farm terminating buses are only peak, evening and Sunday buses.
 

Busaholic

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The standard Monday-Saturday daytime service pattern of the cross city 120 in Sheffield has four termini (First run Fulwood to Crystal Peaks, Stagecoach run Ranmoor to Halfway, so overlapping between Ranmoor and Crystal Peaks).

So that’s four different off-peak termini for the same route number (ignoring suffixes, prefixes, express versions). There are some journeys which terminate at the Hallamshire Hospital or City Centre, but I’m only talking about the standard off-peak Monday to Saturday timetable.

Some service corridors have more off-peak termini but they are spread over different prefixes/ suffixes (e.g. the 38/38A/38B/38C/38E in Glasgow have half a dozen but that’s five separate versions of the route so not valid for the purpose of this thread).

Plenty of route numbers have three off-peak termini (e.g. the 26/31/33 in Edinburgh have one western terminus but two south/eastern ones though all journeys use the same number), but are there any/many with four or more?

Rules:

  • No variety of prefixes/ suffixes – all vehicles must have the same route number on the front of the vehicle (e.g. the 1 and 1A are different routes, as are the X1 and 1)
  • Routes run by more than one operator are fine, as long as they are clearly part of the same overlapping corridor (e.g. the Transdev 7 in Leeds has clearly nothing to do with the First 7 in that city but there are cities where different operators run slightly different services with the same number along the same corridor)
  • Unadvertised duplicates, peak extras and evening/weekend variations don’t count – I’m only talking about the standard Monday to Saturday off-peak service
  • If in doubt, I’d go with the place on the destination screen (to determine whether there are more than one destination – e.g. different stances in the same bus station wouldn’t count as they’d not be distinguished on the destination screen)
Clarification please. I read it originally to mean different destinations under the same number, but NOT including short workings i.e. they should be what London Transport used to refer to as bifurcations i.e. off line of the usual route. It seems that others have given it a different interpretation, so can I just ask which version you intended? If it were to include scheduled short workings on line of route, then I could quote instances (from the past, admittedly) from LT, both red and green divisions, of perhaps ten, twelve or so, and, in one case, possibly up to twenty!
 

tbtc

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Clarification please. I read it originally to mean different destinations under the same number, but NOT including short workings i.e. they should be what London Transport used to refer to as bifurcations i.e. off line of the usual route. It seems that others have given it a different interpretation, so can I just ask which version you intended? If it were to include scheduled short workings on line of route, then I could quote instances (from the past, admittedly) from LT, both red and green divisions, of perhaps ten, twelve or so, and, in one case, possibly up to twenty!

Apologies - I maybe wasn't clear or was a bit too "niche" - I was thinking of a specific corridor where buses have the same number (rather than completely different routes that happen to have the same number). I'm only talking about the regular Monday- Saturday timetable (not peak/ school/ evening/ weekend services, not unadvertised duplicates, not those destinations that only come out due to snow diversions or emergencies)

Maybe the 73 in London was a good example - when I first knew it it was Victoria - Northumberland Park but the standard off-peak timetable seemed to involve a number of overlapping services terminating at places like Tottenham or Euston (later the 476 came along and the 73 became "simpler").

I partly mention London (not just because it's your old stomping ground but) because routes there seemed to have lots of overlapping sections on corridors with just one number. Things seemed to change in the Ken Livingston days with the overlapping routes given separate numbers - but there may still be some corridors that run like that now (but I'm down in the capital less these days).

My understanding of London is that routes like the 73 used to be even longer in the past, so I'll take any "historic" submissions too.
 

Busaholic

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Apologies - I maybe wasn't clear or was a bit too "niche" - I was thinking of a specific corridor where buses have the same number (rather than completely different routes that happen to have the same number). I'm only talking about the regular Monday- Saturday timetable (not peak/ school/ evening/ weekend services, not unadvertised duplicates, not those destinations that only come out due to snow diversions or emergencies)

Maybe the 73 in London was a good example - when I first knew it it was Victoria - Northumberland Park but the standard off-peak timetable seemed to involve a number of overlapping services terminating at places like Tottenham or Euston (later the 476 came along and the 73 became "simpler").

I partly mention London (not just because it's your old stomping ground but) because routes there seemed to have lots of overlapping sections on corridors with just one number. Things seemed to change in the Ken Livingston days with the overlapping routes given separate numbers - but there may still be some corridors that run like that now (but I'm down in the capital less these days).

My understanding of London is that routes like the 73 used to be even longer in the past, so I'll take any "historic" submissions too.
Thanks for the clarification. I'll have to work on this one now, as you've been gracious enough to allow 'historic' submissions! As you mentioned the 73, I'll just say at this juncture that when I first knew it, it operated from Hounslow to Stoke Newington, though it was only on Sundays that you saw 'through' buses. The 12, on which I'll have to do a bit of research as well as putting my memory cap on, never had any through journeys, on any day of the week, in my knowledge of it going on for 70 years, but it's possible may have done in pre-WW2 days.

The situation couldn't be more different in London now. There are LOADS of short workings, but virtually none of them are scheduled as it's TfL policy not to have them. Traffic conditions bring a bit more reality into the situation! It's made more complicated, politically, by every route being not only flat fare, but the same flat fare, whether it's a mile or ten miles long!
 

Busaholic

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Right, here goes, based mostly on my memory (and we all know that can play tricks) but backed up by some research into old timetables, photos, Ian Armstrong's invaluable website on London bus routes, et al.

The period I'm referring to is about 1970, but applies to a few years either side too. It concerns London Transport route 12, which ran between Harlesden, Willesden Junction Station, and South Croydon Garage, although there were absolutely no through journeys on any day of the week. The route had been worked by no fewer than 5 garages simultaneously from the creation of LT in 1933 until the late 1940s, at which point 4 garages were considered sufficient to share the burden, and this state of affairs still existed in the period I refer to. In theory, it was possible for most of the time to make the complete journey with one change of bus, but the 'overlap' for most of the day on Monday to Friday, including the offpeak period, was tiny i.e. Peckham to Dulwich, Plough (actually East Dulwich.) Coincidentally (or not) it had been possible to travel from near Willesden Junction to West Croydon on the trolleybus route 630 up to 1960, and on its replacement bus service 220 until 1966, on a direct bus in an almost straight line, unlike the meandering 12!

These are the termini which I believe were scheduled turns during the weekday offpeak period, with footnotes where necessary.

Harlesden, Willesden Junction
East Acton, Ducane Road
Shepherds Bush, Wells Road
Shepherds Bush Green
Notting Hill Gate
Oxford Circus
Elephant and Castle
Peckham *
Dulwich, Plough
Forest Hill
Penge, Pawleyne Arms
Anerley, Robin Hood **
Elmers End Garage **
Norwood Junction *
Addiscombe, Black Horse
Croydon, Katharine Street
South Croydon Garage

Footnotes:-
* = short turns from both directions
** = slight cheating, perhaps, but I'll explain. Elmers End was one of the four operating garages, but around the time in question operated about half the buses on the route, up to 50 at a time! Because they' covered all the route, in its different sections, there were buses returning to the garage from the Harlesden end after the morning peak up to about 11.30! In the afternoon, these would re-emerge from before 3 p.m. Elmers End was not actually on the line of route, whereas Anerley, Robin Hood was, and both destinations could be found for essentially the same journey. I don't believe Anerley was ever a scheduled turn, though i.e. the buses in practice went to ED garage.

I'd just like to add that peak journeys produced even more scheduled destinations, like
Park Royal, Trading Estate (a peak only projection)
Charing Cross
Whitehall, Horse Guards
County Hall
Camberwell Green

One I seem to remember, but can't find the backing for it, was
South Croydon, Swan and Sugar Loaf (possibly when the TC garage was being overwhelmed by run-ins)

Other ones I remember, but I think were only ever unscheduled, for late running. included,
Park Royal, Coronation Road and
Peckham Rye, Heaton Arms.

I'd be interested to know if anyone thinks they can beat that. A couple of other LT routes could give it a run for its money, inc the aforementioned 73, but the 12 would seem the clear winner in the end.
 
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Ah, the dear old 12, I rode regularly from 1977 to 1985, only Norwood Junction to Harlesden by that time, but with through journeys available if you checked the timetables carefully.

Camberwell Green was a frequent turning point SB, presumably for Walworth Garage
Never knew them turn round at Penge, think that was introduced for the 176 takeover
A school journey to Beckenham junction
Trafalgar Square a more likely turnaround than Charing Cross

I vaguely remember County Hall, Westminster and Marble Arch as turnarounds but could be mistaken

Edits if I remember anything else
 

Busaholic

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Ah, the dear old 12, I rode regularly from 1977 to 1985, only Norwood Junction to Harlesden by that time, but with through journeys available if you checked the timetables carefully.

Camberwell Green was a frequent turning point SB, presumably for Walworth Garage
Never knew them turn round at Penge, think that was introduced for the 176 takeover
A school journey to Beckenham junction
Trafalgar Square a more likely turnaround than Charing Cross

I vaguely remember County Hall, Westminster and Marble Arch as turnarounds but could be mistaken

Edits if I remember anything else
I remember Westminster as a terminal, but only in peaks. Marble Arch, yes, after the route was cut back to Notting Hill Gate. Charing Cross WAS Trafalgar Square, it's only been so described on bus blinds in more recent times!

I'm right about Penge, though. I worked for Bromley Council at Penge Library for a short while c 1968 and used to see them myself: very occasionally, you'd get a 75 turned there as well (but not scheduled) if the South Circular was playing up.
 

Busaholic

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But was it Pawleyne Arms or Crooked Billet?
Most definitely Pawleyne Arms. Crooked Billet was only ever for the 227 - only about one in four in the peak used to go up to the Palace. Even in the offpeak, usually two on stand, the first in line waiting for the through bus to appear from the Penge West direction and follow it at a discreet distance making sure the conductor had no fares to pick up. Sorry, but that's how it was a lot of the time. After Beckenham War Memorial all bets were off and it was last one to Market Square, Bromley gets the inspector's dirty look (or worse!)
 
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Would want to see a photo with a 12 set to that, I have no recollection at all, and as a long-time Dulwich resident with an unhealthy interest in local bus workings, I would have spotted something unusual like that.
 

43055

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An old trentbarton indigo timetable (2010) that I have shows the following destinations:

Nottingham Broadmarsh
Long Eaton Briar Gate
Derby Bus Station
Old Sawley
New Swaley
Loughborough

and some others not used off peak Monday to Saturday:
Kegworth
East Midlands Airport
Long Eaton Green
Long Eaton Wilsthorpe Island

Out of those 9 destinations only 4 remain today, how times change.
 

Busaholic

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Would want to see a photo with a 12 set to that, I have no recollection at all, and as a long-time Dulwich resident with an unhealthy interest in local bus workings, I would have spotted something unusual like that.
Apart from any other workings, Christmas Day 1969 or 1970 definitely saw at least one working to that destination, because I saw the schedule during my brief time in Bus Schedules: it could have been either of those years. It would almost certainly have been a late working to get the bus back to its home garage (Peckham?) for the 4 p.m. cut-off time. I made a mental note of it.
 

Busaholic

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Would want to see a photo with a 12 set to that, I have no recollection at all, and as a long-time Dulwich resident with an unhealthy interest in local bus workings, I would have spotted something unusual like that.
I'd pay quite a lot of money to obtain photos of RT or RTL buses on the 160 route displaying Eltham, Southend Crescent or Eltham Green, but I've never come across any, despite there being two daily journeys to the former in the 1960s and the occasional short turn on the latter, so could be a needle in the haystack job. However, I'll keep looking for any evidence of 12s to Penge.
 

darloscott

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My (Stagecarriage) X8 currently has 4 terminus points
Stillington
Stockton High Street
Middlesbrough
James Cook Hospital

Only one I can think of with more in our area is Arriva's 15 which currently operates with 5 points, albeit two are different estates in Thornaby, with some extending to Ingleby Barwick, with Roseworth and (mostly peak) extensions to North Tees Hospital at the other end.
 

Tetchytyke

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The 1 in Newcastle has four regular termini: Buddle Road, Slatyford, Cobalt and Coach Lane. Are we also counting the short workings that start/end at the depot?
 

SCH117X

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Suppose it depends what you class as peak services; early weekday am local services on the 2A (Bilton at 0631 and 0701) and 3 (Jennyfield at 0624, 0659 and 0724) in Harrogate are worked as 36 to Leeds, the first off the 3 route arrives at Leeds at 0739 with the first off the 2A route 14 mins later. Also away from the main Ripon-Harrogate-Leeds route buses run in service as 36 off route to and from the depot at Starbeck. Five termini, albieit two are departures only, plus Harrogate on short workings.
 

Jordan Adam

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Suppose it depends what you class as peak services; early weekday am local services on the 2A (Bilton at 0631 and 0701) and 3 (Jennyfield at 0624, 0659 and 0724) in Harrogate are worked as 36 to Leeds, the first off the 3 route arrives at Leeds at 0739 with the first off the 2A route 14 mins later. Also away from the main Ripon-Harrogate-Leeds route buses run in service as 36 off route to and from the depot at Starbeck. Five termini, albieit two are departures only, plus Harrogate on short workings.

"Offpeak" in my view is 09:30 to 15:30.
 
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The Stagecoach 5 in Grimsby can terminate at Immingham County, South Killingholme, Habrough, and Grimsby, Cleethorpes Pier, North Sea Lane on the other side.
 
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