Incorrect BoJ Advice on Lancaster TVM

snail · 14 Dec 2018

I picked up an Off Peak Return from Lancaster to London today from the TVM at Lancaster station. I was surprised to see that the ticket restrictions on screen stated that Break of Journey is allowed on the outward journey. The Restriction Code printed on the ticket was 3A which explicitly restricts it, to stop people buying the cheaper tickets and boarding at Preston.

I was travelling on the 0739, boarding at Lancaster, so was ok but could this be a case of "ticket office" advice overriding the published restriction if I did try starting short?

(PS Why the reference to Southsea Hoverport? o_O

)

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robbeech · 14 Dec 2018

Absolutely without question you’d be entitled to break your journey as you’ve been told you can. Of course, you’d be prosecuted and have to fight it in court.

The important thing to note though, as you’re at Lancaster it’s not really a major issue.
If a machine at Preston said that (if it allows you to purchase tickets from another station) then it would be an interesting one.

ForTheLoveOf · 14 Dec 2018

snail said:
I picked up an Off Peak Return from Lancaster to London today from the TVM at Lancaster station. I was surprised to see that the ticket restrictions on screen stated that Break of Journey is allowed on the outward journey. The Restriction Code printed on the ticket was 3A which explicitly restricts it, to stop people buying the cheaper tickets and boarding at Preston.

I was travelling on the 0739, boarding at Lancaster, so was ok but could this be a case of "ticket office" advice overriding the published restriction if I did try starting short?

View attachment 56684

(PS Why the reference to Southsea Hoverport? )

Indeed, that is problematic 'advice'. Someone who is quick-witted enough like you to capture a picture of this would have a strong case if they had problems breaking their journey.

And I hope you are, if anything, starting late and not starting short!

The reason for the 'not via Southsea Hoverport' message is that this style of TVM shows all the 'avoid' points which are set up in the electronic data for the route of the ticket. Any Permitted tickets are set up with an avoid point of Southsea Hoverport to prevent itineraries for travel to the Isle of Wight being given on these tickets (as the hovercraft provider wants their dedicated tickets to be used).

kieron · 14 Dec 2018

snail said:
I picked up an Off Peak Return from Lancaster to London today from the TVM at Lancaster station. I was surprised to see that the ticket restrictions on screen stated that Break of Journey is allowed on the outward journey. The Restriction Code printed on the ticket was 3A which explicitly restricts it, to stop people buying the cheaper tickets and boarding at Preston.

From what I can tell, the fare data has a field to say "advance tickets don't allow break of journey", but not one to say "tickets with a 3A restriction don't allow it". As off peak returns do allow break of journey, the ticket machine is correctly reporting the information it has been given.

I suppose the reason for it being like this is that the format was set in stone before someone first thought of having restriction codes which forbid break of journey.

snail said:
(PS Why the reference to Southsea Hoverport? )

If you bought the ticket from a web site instead of a TVM, it wouldn't give you an itinerary from Lancaster to London via Southsea Hoverport. That's all.

dave4jackie · 15 Dec 2018

on star machine says break of journey allowed so some staff will sell ticket, on rail site it says only to change trains so what is to stop someone saying they got the 07.03 northern train to preston asthey needed to do something for 10 mins but really only joined at preston

yorkie · 15 Dec 2018

Break of journey restrictions are not in the fares data.

We know Advance tickets do not allow BOJ, but there is no way for any retail system to determine if break of journey is allowed for Off Peak tickets.

In my opinion the notion that some Off Peak tickets can bar break of journey is absurd, and should be scrapped.

robbeech · 15 Dec 2018

dave4jackie said:
on star machine says break of journey allowed so some staff will sell ticket, on rail site it says only to change trains so what is to stop someone saying they got the 07.03 northern train to preston asthey needed to do something for 10 mins but really only joined at preston

What is to stop them? Their morals? The law? Something else perhaps?

Paul Kelly · 15 Dec 2018

kieron said:
I suppose the reason for it being like this is that the format was set in stone before someone first thought of having restriction codes which forbid break of journey.

Yes indeed - technically, whether break of journey is permitted or not depends on the ticket type, not the restriction code. As most SVRs allow it, I presume that's why the data says it is allowed for that ticket type, and that is what the machine is showing.

Bletchleyite · 15 Dec 2018

yorkie said:
In my opinion the notion that some Off Peak tickets can bar break of journey is absurd, and should be scrapped.

I agree. Break of Journey should be allowed on all tickets within their validity period without exception, Advances included. (Stopping people popping out to the shops between trains is preposterous).

alistairlees · 16 Dec 2018

Indigo2 said:
Yes indeed - technically, whether break of journey is permitted or not depends on the ticket type, not the restriction code. As most SVRs allow it, I presume that's why the data says it is allowed for that ticket type, and that is what the machine is showing.

This is indeed the reason: BoJ is set (in the data) by ticket type, not by restriction code. Where the restriction code BoJ contradicts the ticket type BoJ, there is no easy solution as to how to deal with this, other than to parse the restriction code text, which is not really that efficient or reliable. The alternative is to do some general text like Trainline does:

BREAK OF JOURNEY
Break of journey is permitted on the return direction of Off-Peak tickets, and is generally permitted on the outward direction unless prohibited for the journey that you are making. If you intend to break your outward journey, please contact us to check if it is permitted. You can always break your journey where necessary to change train.

Which is hardly a good customer experience, nor is it cost-effective for the retailer.

Incorrect BoJ Advice on Lancaster TVM

snail

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RailUK Forums

robbeech

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ForTheLoveOf

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kieron

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dave4jackie

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yorkie

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robbeech

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Paul Kelly

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Bletchleyite

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alistairlees

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