• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Assetless company given millions of govt money...

Status
Not open for further replies.

AndrewE

Established Member
Joined
9 Nov 2015
Messages
5,072
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46714984
says
No-deal Brexit ferry contract sparks concerns
Concerns have been raised over the readiness of a British firm contracted by the government to run extra ferries in the event of a no-deal Brexit.
Seaborne Freight was awarded a £13.8m contract this week to run a freight service between Ramsgate and Ostend.
The firm has never run a ferry service and a local councillor said it would be impossible to launch before Brexit.
The government said it had awarded the contract in "the full knowledge that Seaborne is a new shipping provider".
I despair...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Iskra

Established Member
Joined
11 Jun 2014
Messages
7,787
Location
West Riding
Not really sure why this is necessary when they MOD has 6 Point-class RORO ferries, 4 of which are available if it came to it. Why would you then risk/waste £14m, for a capability we already have?
 

Jensen

Member
Joined
3 Jan 2016
Messages
20
Location
Oxfordshire
Perhaps DfT has not spoken to MOD? Its interesting looking at Seaborne Freight's web site and their details at Companies House.
 

cactustwirly

Established Member
Joined
10 Apr 2013
Messages
7,447
Location
UK
Not really sure why this is necessary when they MOD has 6 Point-class RORO ferries, 4 of which are available if it came to it. Why would you then risk/waste £14m, for a capability we already have?

But will the MoD RoRo ships fit in Ramsgate?
 

LNW-GW Joint

Veteran Member
Joined
22 Feb 2011
Messages
19,555
Location
Mold, Clwyd
I don't really see the point of the contracts anyway.
There won't be more traffic, but it will (may) take longer to get through the port controls (all ports, not just Dover-Calais).
We've reached the point where any disruption of trade is cheerfully welcomed, whatever the cost, because it means we are leaving...
 

Tim R-T-C

Established Member
Joined
23 May 2011
Messages
2,143
Perhaps it was to deflect from the fact that the other two companies receiving millions are DFDS, a Danish firm, being paid in Euros and Britanny Ferries, a French firm.

Or perhaps this mystery firm has direct connections to a government minister...

I don't really see the point of the contracts anyway.
There won't be more traffic, but it will (may) take longer to get through the port controls (all ports, not just Dover-Calais).

I think the ferries are to be used for essential traffic, like medical supplies, so they can queue jump, rather than waiting in the long lines at Dover & Calais.
 

433N

Guest
Joined
20 Jun 2017
Messages
752
Perhaps it was to deflect from the fact that the other two companies receiving millions are DFDS, a Danish firm, being paid in Euros and Britanny Ferries, a French firm.

Exactly.
Can you imagine the apoplexy from Brexit-heads if government money only went to Johnny Foreigner firms.
The perceived incompetence of the government through giving contracts to sham companies is far less damaging - a sign of our ridiculous times.

Or perhaps this mystery firm has direct connections to a government minister...

Why did that also occur to me ?

On a note which appears to be neglected, is there spare capacity in the Customs and Immigration services to cope with using Ramsgate as a port because I don't think you'll be able to train people for the job in 3 months.
 

cactustwirly

Established Member
Joined
10 Apr 2013
Messages
7,447
Location
UK
Perhaps it was to deflect from the fact that the other two companies receiving millions are DFDS, a Danish firm, being paid in Euros and Britanny Ferries, a French firm.

Or perhaps this mystery firm has direct connections to a government minister...



I think the ferries are to be used for essential traffic, like medical supplies, so they can queue jump, rather than waiting in the long lines at Dover & Calais.

But DFDS is a huge ferry company, which already operates a number of freight and passenger routes to and from Britain.
Brittany Ferries is a well established ferry company in the Western Channel (not sure how they're going to operate the extra services though)
 

mmh

Established Member
Joined
13 Aug 2016
Messages
3,744
Or Stagecoach, First, National Express etc etc to run trains for you. None of them had done it before they did, either.
 

Dai Corner

Established Member
Joined
20 Jul 2015
Messages
6,316
It turns out that the company have been working towards reopening Ramsgate as a ferry port for some time.

https://theisleofthanetnews.com/201...-with-ostend-ramsgate-ferry-operator-hopeful/

Thanet council has confirmed it is in talks with authorities in Belgium and the Seaborne Freight company which was due to have started a Ramsgate-Ostend ferry route in March this year.

Council leader Bob Bayford confirmed commercial talks have been taking place between the authority, Seaborne and Ostend representatives.

In October, during the run up to the Ostend elections, town mayor Johan Vande Lanotte announced a ‘basic agreement’ had been made for a ferry line between Ostend and Ramsgate.

He said the route would start with freight but a passenger service could begin shortly afterwards.

In a social media statement Mr Vande Lanotte said:The Board of Management of the Port of Ostend has reached a basic agreement with Seaborne freight for the launch of a new RoRo line Oostende- Ramsgate, which is due to start on March 1, 2018.

“It is a guided freight, ie lorry drivers who cross the Channel with their freight. The intention is that three ships will be deployed with six departures a day.”

They don't need to own any ships, they'll lease them just like TOCs lease trains.
 

cactustwirly

Established Member
Joined
10 Apr 2013
Messages
7,447
Location
UK
It turns out that the company have been working towards reopening Ramsgate as a ferry port for some time.

https://theisleofthanetnews.com/201...-with-ostend-ramsgate-ferry-operator-hopeful/



They don't need to own any ships, they'll lease them just like TOCs lease trains.


Yeah but there has to a suitable ship for them to charter in the first place!
Then they need crews, licences to carry freight etc!
I don't see it happening myself

If the contract was given to Stena line, then that's a completely different story, as they'll have access to lots of ships (Stena RoRo has fingers in many pies so to speak)
 

Tim R-T-C

Established Member
Joined
23 May 2011
Messages
2,143
Or Stagecoach, First, National Express etc etc to run trains for you. None of them had done it before they did, either.

Except that they HAD TRAINS! It wasn't like Stagecoach were getting paid to take on the ECML services and then had to provide their own rolling stock, they took over existing stock, drivers, crew, staff, infrastructure etc etc.

This would be like an Open Access operator getting funding from a local council to provide services, before actually sourcing any rolling stock or drivers or paths to operate a service.
 

Dai Corner

Established Member
Joined
20 Jul 2015
Messages
6,316
Yeah but there has to a suitable ship for them to charter in the first place!
Then they need crews, licences to carry freight etc!
I don't see it happening myself

If the contract was given to Stena line, then that's a completely different story, as they'll have access to lots of ships (Stena RoRo has fingers in many pies so to speak)

One assumes (hopes?!) that the Government checked Seaborne had agreements in place with shipowners etc before signing the contract.
 
Last edited:

Tim R-T-C

Established Member
Joined
23 May 2011
Messages
2,143
One assumes (hopes?!) that the Government checked Seabourne had agreements in place with shipowners etc before signing the contract.

I certainly wouldn't bet on that.

The whole situation is already dodgy because Chris Grayling's department only started awarding contracts to shipping firms a few weeks ago, too late for a full public tender process.

Hence the whole thing was hidden under the table and not publicly disclosed by the DfT until journalists were given the lead by a third party.
 

AndrewE

Established Member
Joined
9 Nov 2015
Messages
5,072
One assumes (hopes?!) that the Government checked Seabourne had agreements in place with shipowners etc before signing the contract.
You mean like the firms that took over running prisons and probation services? They didn't even have managers or directors who knew anything about the job...
 

cactustwirly

Established Member
Joined
10 Apr 2013
Messages
7,447
Location
UK
You mean like the firms that took over running prisons and probation services? They didn't even have managers or directors who knew anything about the job...

But they didn't have to find their own prisons within 3 months!
When Brittany Ferries set up their new Cork route this year, it took them 5 months to set up, that's with contracts signed for a vessel and crews!
 

EM2

Established Member
Joined
16 Nov 2008
Messages
7,523
Location
The home of the concrete cow
So...if there's a deal, or there's not but not as much traffic as expected and DFDS & Brittany carry it all, so that Seaborne never actually *have* to operate a ferry, do they get to keep the money?
 

krus_aragon

Established Member
Joined
10 Jun 2009
Messages
6,042
Location
North Wales
The whole situation is already dodgy because Chris Grayling's department only started awarding contracts to shipping firms a few weeks ago, too late for a full public tender process.
You mean they didn't follow EU procurement rules?! ;)

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
23,224
Location
Bolton
It has been brought to my attention that if you go to https://seabornefreight.com/timetable

And scroll down there's an image designed to trick people into thinking that the website has a login area that looks like this:

timetable-image-20180605101103.jpg

This is actually just an image...
If you click, you're redirected to https://www.google.co.uk

What on earth.

Also, the preview you get from the first link above looks like this:

Screenshot_20190103-194144_Telegram X.jpg

It says:
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. ...
seems to be placeholder text?
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top