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Stabbing incident at Manchester Victoria.

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83G/84D

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Three hurt including a police officer tonight after a man wielding a knife was attacking people on the station.

Station was closed as a result.

Manchester Victoria station stabbing: Three injured

Three people - including a police officer - have been stabbed by a man wielding a knife at Manchester Victoria railway station.

A man and woman in their 50s were attacked at about 20:50 GMT, Greater Manchester Police said.

A British Transport Police officer was stabbed in the shoulder. A man has been held on suspicion of attempted murder.

Officers said counter terrorism police were leading the inquiry, but they were keeping an open mind on the motive.

The station is currently shut and officers remain at the scene.

Greater Manchester Police, which declared the attack a "critical incident", said there was "no intelligence to suggest that there is any wider threat at this time".

Officers said the attack victims' injuries were "serious" but not life-threatening.

BBC 5 live producer Sam Clack, who had been at the station at the time, said he saw a man stabbed on a tram platform at the station, which is next to Manchester Arena, "feet from me".

He added he was "close to jumping on the tracks" as the attacker had a "long kitchen knife".

'Pure fear'

Mr Clack said he first "heard this most blood-curdling scream and looked down the platform".

"It looked like they were having a fight, but the woman was screaming in this blood-curdling way. I saw police in high-vis come towards him. He came towards me.

"I looked down and saw he had a kitchen knife with a black handle with a good, 12in blade. It was just fear, pure fear."

He said police used pepper spray and a Taser on the detained man, who he said had been "resisting arrest".

He said he saw "six or seven" officers on top of the man, who he described as "very skittish".

"He was very aggressive and very intent on causing more harm than he actually did," he said.

"It was very, very scary."

Police said the woman had injuries to her face and abdomen and the man had injuries to his abdomen.

The New Year firework display in Albert Square went ahead.

City councillor Pat Karney said the authority was being kept informed by Greater Manchester Police.

Assistant Chief Constable Rob Potts said: "Tonight's events will have understandably worried people but I need to stress that the incident is not ongoing, a man is in custody and there is currently no intelligence to suggest that there is any wider threat at this time.

While we don't yet know the full circumstances and are keeping an open mind, officers from Counter Terrorism Policing North West are leading on the investigation."

Manchester Metrolink said no trams would be calling at the station "at this time".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-46724322
 
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Mathew S

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Station was closed as a result.
Only the Met side was completely closed. National Rail services not affected, or so I'm told by colleagues.
Last heavy rail service was 2224 from Southport anyway.
 

Mathew S

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I have just tried to get a tram from Victoria and the police had closed all the doors to the station.
NR services would have finished an hour and a half ago anyway, and they're unlikely to be able to run any trams through the crime scene until tomorrow morning at the earliest. No point leaving the doors open when there's no service passengers can use.
 

td97

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So saddening that 2019 has to start with such a terrible event.
Engineering works 01/01 mean that the NR station was scheduled to be closed anyway. Doesn't detract from the fact that this is a deplorable event targeting innocent individuals and the BTP.
 
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Mathew S

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Here's a statement from Greater Manchester Police and some additional info from me (I was working tonight):
A critical incident has been declared after a multiple stabbing on New Year's Eve.
At around 8.50pm on Monday 31 December, officers from British Transport Police were called to Manchester Victoria station to reports of a man with a knife.
A woman and a man - both aged in their 50s - have been taken to hospital with knife injuries. The woman has injuries to her face and abdomen and the man has injuries to his abdomen.
A BTP officer is also receiving treatment for a stab wound to his shoulder.
At this time, their injuries are serious but not thought to be life-threatening.
A man is in police custody for questioning on suspicion of attempted murder.
Emergency services will continue to respond to the incident throughout the night and enquiries are ongoing.
Assistant Chief Constable Rob Potts, said: "Tonight's events will have understandably worried people but I need to stress that the incident is not ongoing, a man is in custody and there is currently no intelligence to suggest that there is any wider threat at this time.
"While we don't yet know the full circumstances and are keeping an open mind, officers from Counter Terrorism Policing North West are leading on the investigation.
"This is to ensure make sure we have all the expertise available to us and progress our investigation as soon as we possibly can. There will be closures in place at the station for some time and officers will be in the area throughout the night."

GMP are keen to emphasise that this is not being treated as an ongoing incident and there's no reason to think there is any ongoing risk. I am aware that there has been speculation about possible things that the alleged perpetrator may have said/shouted. At present, that information is coming from one or two apparent eye-witnesses and hasn't been confirmed by police - despite the way some of my more moronic colleagues have elected to report it.

On the subject of travel, as I mentioned earlier, National Rail services continued as normal until the planned end of service at approximately 2230. There are no trains planned at Man Vic until after 1800 on New Year's Day anyway due to engineering work. GMP will not be drawn on when the scene will be released back to Metrolink (nothing unusual about that) however I would not be surprised if disruption continues through New Year's Day. In terms of people getting home from tonight, there are buses running until 0400, plenty of taxis, and trams ran until the planned end of service on all other routes. Trains and rail replacement buses start from 4am onwards. So really, it shouldn't be a massive deal for people to get home.
 
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STANDISH

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Very poor reporting by Manchester Evening News and the BBC. Both news groups cannot distinguish between the Railway Station and the Tram stop.
This morning the MEN says Victoria station closed, perhaps they could send a reporter to see all the replacement bus services outside the railway station.
 

1e10

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Very poor reporting by Manchester Evening News and the BBC. Both news groups cannot distinguish between the Railway Station and the Tram stop.
This morning the MEN says Victoria station closed, perhaps they could send a reporter to see all the replacement bus services outside the railway station.

So for all intents and purposes the station is not open?

Even if a reported went around (and they may have) and seen all the buses, they may still come to the conclusion the station is closed, which it is.

EDIT: Is an image of the station sealed off with police tape on MEN at 7AM this morning.
 

geoffk

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Been to Rochdale on the train from Littleborough. Trams are showing "East Didsbury" and the Rochdale station tram stop states that Victoria has reopened but that there may be delays. As said in post #5, Victoria was due to be closed today anyway. Replacement buses are running from Rochdale non-stop to Manchester and one train an hour is running to Moston.
 

Llama

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Police tape went up at all station entrances about 2230ish last night when it was decided to be possibly terror related. Prior to that the Metrolink platforms had been closed off since the incident but the concourse and rail platforms had l been accessible. TPE services were running slightly later than Northern services, but there had been severe disruption from about 1830-2030 due to a points failure between Manchester Victoria and Miles Platting Jn.

Today there is a planned T3 possession encompassing Victoria, all lines blocked from 2235 last night til 1800 this evening.
 

broadgage

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Latest reports on the BBC site and presumably elsewhere, state that this is believed to be a terrorist attack.
 

185

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Two of those involved in restraining the idiot weren't BTP, they were Metrolink Travelsafe Officers (contracted by TfGM from STM).

Well done & exceptionally brave. In breach of their "hands-off-walk-away policy" for all the right reasons and common sense.
 

Tom Quinne

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I think it probably depends on the person doing the role, got to love the situation we’re now in whenever some random nutter probably failed by the underfunded mental health services is groomed by online terrriost videos then attempts to murder people is branded a terrorist incident.

You fight a fire by generally removing the fuel or oxygen, starve these nutters of publicity they crave.

Sadly though those who are their to protect us are stabbed as we continue to refuse, and live in a “Dickson of dock green” fantasy of not arming our police officers, it would be interesting to know if the Constable has a taser - even they are now subject to controversy down south.
 

Llanigraham

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I think it probably depends on the person doing the role, got to love the situation we’re now in whenever some random nutter probably failed by the underfunded mental health services is groomed by online terrriost videos then attempts to murder people is branded a terrorist incident.

You fight a fire by generally removing the fuel or oxygen, starve these nutters of publicity they crave.

Sadly though those who are their to protect us are stabbed as we continue to refuse, and live in a “Dickson of dock green” fantasy of not arming our police officers, it would be interesting to know if the Constable has a taser - even they are now subject to controversy down south.

Considering that the Police do NOT want to be generally armed with anything more than the likes of a Tazer or Pepper Spray, I suggest that you views are a little out of touch with the real world.
 

Bletchleyite

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I think it probably depends on the person doing the role, got to love the situation we’re now in whenever some random nutter probably failed by the underfunded mental health services is groomed by online terrriost videos then attempts to murder people is branded a terrorist incident.

You fight a fire by generally removing the fuel or oxygen, starve these nutters of publicity they crave.

Sadly though those who are their to protect us are stabbed as we continue to refuse, and live in a “Dickson of dock green” fantasy of not arming our police officers, it would be interesting to know if the Constable has a taser - even they are now subject to controversy down south.

Utter, utter rubbish. Other than by firing into a crowd there is absolutely nothing an armed police officer could have done to make this less severe. It was stopped as quickly as it could have been.

There are only two ways to stop that kind of thing more quickly. Better intelligence work and airport style security. The latter would just move it elsewhere, e.g. the queue for said security.

I do agree on publicity, though. It might be better if they actually kept secret if a case was terrorism or not. Had they not, stabbings happen in big cities, and other than for the victims and their families it would have been forgotten by now.
 

Mathew S

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I do agree on publicity, though. It might be better if they actually kept secret if a case was terrorism or not. Had they not, stabbings happen in big cities, and other than for the victims and their families it would have been forgotten by now.
Agreed. This isn't America, we don't conduct police investigations in public.
In this instance, however, the media had become aware that the Counter Terrorism Unit were leading the investigation, so GMP had to say something.
 

Bletchleyite

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Agreed. This isn't America, we don't conduct police investigations in public.
In this instance, however, the media had become aware that the Counter Terrorism Unit were leading the investigation, so GMP had to say something.

I'm no great fan of censorship, but I do wonder if the media should be prohibited from publishing information like that, as it's of no actual use to the public and serves only to further the aims of terrorism by making people, er, terrified.
 

Tom Quinne

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Considering that the Police do NOT want to be generally armed with anything more than the likes of a Tazer or Pepper Spray, I suggest that you views are a little out of touch with the real world.

“The police” as in the senior management, a lot of rank and file officers feel wholly left out in the cold being tasked to response to jobs single crewed with in a high proportion of cases a ASP and CS spray, most forces will only issue taser to a core off officers it is very much not a general issue piece of PPE.
 

Bletchleyite

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“The police” as in the senior management, a lot of rank and file officers feel wholly left out in the cold being tasked to response to jobs single crewed with in a high proportion of cases a ASP and CS spray, most forces will only issue taser to a core off officers it is very much not a general issue piece of PPE.

Anyway, with regard to armed police there sometimes *are* some at Manchester Victoria, and I bet on New Year's Eve there were. Did they fire any shots or otherwise get involved? No. This was done by unarmed private security guards.

But bluntly, if you want to live in a country with 100% armed police (and therefore near-100% armed criminals) feel free to choose a different one, you have a choice of (I think) all the other countries in the world except this one. I like this one the way it is, personally.
 

Tom Quinne

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Utter, utter rubbish. Other than by firing into a crowd there is absolutely nothing an armed police officer could have done to make this less severe. It was stopped as quickly as it could have been.

There are only two ways to stop that kind of thing more quickly. Better intelligence work and airport style security. The latter would just move it elsewhere, e.g. the queue for said security.

I do agree on publicity, though. It might be better if they actually kept secret if a case was terrorism or not. Had they not, stabbings happen in big cities, and other than for the victims and their families it would have been forgotten by now.

Do you any idea how well trained our armed police officers are ? Do you really think any Constable would wildly fire into a crowd ? Of. Course not, the officers who responded to the tradgic events after the murder of Lee Rigby gave an armed challenge to the murders, they choose to run towards the armed officers and where shot to enable the arrest to take place.

Unarmed officers would have become more victims, the BTP officer who fought off THREE armed terrorists on London Bridge was unarmed not even with taser, even a single armed officer could have shot them, this stopping further lose of life.
 

Tom Quinne

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Anyway, with regard to armed police there sometimes *are* some at Manchester Victoria, and I bet on New Year's Eve there were. Did they fire any shots or otherwise get involved? No. This was done by unarmed private security guards.

But bluntly, if you want to live in a country with 100% armed police (and therefore near-100% armed criminals) feel free to choose a different one, you have a choice of (I think) all the other countries in the world except this one. I like this one the way it is, personally.

Ask the many former and current contables on this forum who exposed they feel when responded to incidents.

It’s all well and good for you to say, but your not the one being despatched to a job where you literally have no idea whether you’ll be faced with a anger old lady with a rolling pin or a armed to the teeth nutter with mental health issues and a hand full of knives.
 

Bletchleyite

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It’s all well and good for you to say, but your not the one being despatched to a job where you literally have no idea whether you’ll be faced with a anger old lady with a rolling pin or a armed to the teeth nutter with mental health issues and a hand full of knives.

It would strike me that the issue there is fairly obvious, namely that you need to dispatch the right officers to the right incidents and give them information about what they're going to.
 

Bletchleyite

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Do you any idea how well trained our armed police officers are ? Do you really think any Constable would wildly fire into a crowd ?

No, of course not, it's not America where that kind of idiocy does go on. The reason I said that was that the presence of a large crowd on the platform rendered firearms totally useless in this incident, and therefore the presence of them irrelevant.

Unarmed officers would have become more victims, the BTP officer who fought off THREE armed terrorists on London Bridge was unarmed not even with taser, even a single armed officer could have shot them, this stopping further lose of life.

But how many more people would have been shot by other criminals due to more guns being in circulation, which they would be if the Police all had them?
 

Eccles1983

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Anyway, with regard to armed police there sometimes *are* some at Manchester Victoria, and I bet on New Year's Eve there were. Did they fire any shots or otherwise get involved? No. This was done by unarmed private security guards.

But bluntly, if you want to live in a country with 100% armed police (and therefore near-100% armed criminals) feel free to choose a different one, you have a choice of (I think) all the other countries in the world except this one. I like this one the way it is, personally.


No they are not.

The last deployment of armed officers was after the arena bombing. They are not routinely sent to Victoria.

And this was done by btp with the assistance of the tso. I have no idea where you based your misleading nonsense from.
 

Eccles1983

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No, of course not, it's not America where that kind of idiocy does go on. The reason I said that was that the presence of a large crowd on the platform rendered firearms totally useless in this incident, and therefore the presence of them irrelevant.



But how many more people would have been shot by other criminals due to more guns being in circulation, which they would be if the Police all had them?


Again more nonsense.

I have done armed policing. In the crowded scenario you explain I would proceed forward, and disable the subject at close range, in plain language by using a sidearm at arms distance.

You have no idea what you are on about. The armed policing in this country is one of the best, well drilled and legally sound in the world.

Whilst it's all easy and black and white over your water cooler - stuff like this happens daily and armed officers are not known for spraying crowds wildly like you are suggesting.
 

Eccles1983

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Considering that the Police do NOT want to be generally armed with anything more than the likes of a Tazer or Pepper Spray, I suggest that you views are a little out of touch with the real world.


Not true.

The last police federation survey disproves this myth.
 

Mathew S

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I'm no great fan of censorship, but I do wonder if the media should be prohibited from publishing information like that, as it's of no actual use to the public and serves only to further the aims of terrorism by making people, er, terrified.
It is difficult, and something I and others spend a lot of time thinking about. You are right that it is always best to avoid the "T" word unless/until you're sure. Although in a world of social media, it is increasingly difficult to achieve what we aim for.

Legally this is a "live case" and so the rule is that nothing significant can now be published until the case concludes so as not to commit contempt. It's also worthy of note that you won't have seen the alleged perpetrator's name published anywhere.
 

Master29

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Anyway, with regard to armed police there sometimes *are* some at Manchester Victoria, and I bet on New Year's Eve there were. Did they fire any shots or otherwise get involved? No. This was done by unarmed private security guards.

But bluntly, if you want to live in a country with 100% armed police (and therefore near-100% armed criminals) feel free to choose a different one, you have a choice of (I think) all the other countries in the world except this one. I like this one the way it is, personally.
Agreed. It`s the one thing we have got right in the UK. You`ve only got to look at the US college massacres over the years to know this.
 
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