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Do I get any more Chance for Train Driver assessment after 2 fail

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Shine76

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31 Dec 2018
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Hi,
It is my desperation, i am trying to find a whether do I get any chance as I failed on two diffierent parts of same assessment ( 1st time -March 2016, on matching same symbols and second time -Sept 2016, on two tone listening). I have to say it wasn't my day on second time. I had good result on group Bowen and the other I managed.
Is someone can help me to advise me about any possiblity to get another chance. I joined with railway in 2011 with the dream of becoming a Train Driver.

Please advise me about any possibilities from your experiences....
Thanks.
 
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Stigy

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I may be wrong, as I've never looked at it like this to be honest, but I always thought that you attempt the process rather than individual assessments, so in theory, you have had your two goes. The recruitment department at your chosen TOC or FOC, or the OPC if they facilitated the assessments you took, would be best placed to answer.
 

Dynamonic

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Unfortunately, you are currently only allowed two attempts at the Train Driver OPC assessments.
Sadly, it would appear that you have now used your two attempts and will be unable to sit the train driver assessments again, although make sure you get in touch with the OPC directly to confirm where you stand.

When the assessment process was last changed in 2013, the two attempt rule was reset, so candidates who had previously used their chances prior to 2013 were able to apply again, so it’s possible the same may happen in future years, although it’s impossible to say if or when that will be.

Good luck Shine76. :)
 

Stigy

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Worth noting also that this may not always be the case, for example, if they revamp the national test process again like they did in 2013, or if the rules change (currently it's just a gentleman's agreement really, nothing set in stone) you'll have a fresh slate. Or at least that's very likely. I failed in 2011 and had my slate wiped to allow me a further two attempts. I've since passed them all in one way or another (it's complicated).
 

dctraindriver

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Why? Seems like a reasonable enough question...unless I'm missing something?
First post, bad grammar. It could well be someone on one of the other forums bored.... used to happen quite a bit..

Maybe I’m wrong......
 

falcon

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425
Hi,
It is my desperation, i am trying to find a whether do I get any chance as I failed on two diffierent parts of same assessment ( 1st time -March 2016, on matching same symbols and second time -Sept 2016, on two tone listening). I have to say it wasn't my day on second time. I had good result on group Bowen and the other I managed.
Is someone can help me to advise me about any possiblity to get another chance. I joined with railway in 2011 with the dream of becoming a Train Driver.

Please advise me about any possibilities from your experiences....
Thanks.
Why did you have to take the test on parts you had not failed in the earlier test?

It used to be that you only took the parts that you failed on in the earlier test!

The only reason for taking tests you have already passed is so you can fail them.?
 

GB

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Why did you have to take the test on parts you had not failed in the earlier test?

It used to be that you only took the parts that you failed on in the earlier test!

The only reason for taking tests you have already passed is so you can fail them.?

The symbols and the two tones are part of the same exercise except the exercise is split into 2 parts. Its possible that to maintain standards and maintain the flow of the tests that you will have to do them both again. A bit like the 3 part computer test...if you fail one part of it I'm pretty sure you will still need to do all three parts again on your second attempt.
 

Val3ntine

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The symbols and the two tones are part of the same exercise except the exercise is split into 2 parts. Its possible that to maintain standards and maintain the flow of the tests that you will have to do them both again. A bit like the 3 part computer test...if you fail one part of it I'm pretty sure you will still need to do all three parts again on your second attempt.

True for the 1st bit not true for the 2nd.
Each computer test is a seperate test, pass any and you will not need to repeat whereas the tone test has 3 parts to the same test. Fail any part of the 3 parts it counts as a fail for the whole test and you will need to redo all parts.

To answer the OP’s earlier question even if you fail the same test twice it still counts as 2 fails same as failing two tests.
 

C.T.P.

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no
Hi,
It is my desperation, i am trying to find a whether do I get any chance as I failed on two diffierent parts of same assessment ( 1st time -March 2016, on matching same symbols and second time -Sept 2016, on two tone listening). I have to say it wasn't my day on second time. I had good result on group Bowen and the other I managed.
Is someone can help me to advise me about any possiblity to get another chance. I joined with railway in 2011 with the dream of becoming a Train Driver.

Please advise me about any possibilities from your experiences....
Thanks.

Not currently
 

falcon

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I know that if the employing TOC want's to they can allow a third go at the assessment.It is only a guide not a Rule.
 

Shine76

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31 Dec 2018
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3
Unfortunately, you are currently only allowed two attempts at the Train Driver OPC assessments.
Sadly, it would appear that you have now used your two attempts and will be unable to sit the train driver assessments again, although make sure you get in touch with the OPC directly to confirm where you stand.

When the assessment process was last changed in 2013, the two attempt rule was reset, so candidates who had previously used their chances prior to 2013 were able to apply again, so it’s possible the same may happen in future years, although it’s impossible to say if or when that will be.

Good luck Shine76. :)

Thank you for your reply. It give me atleast a slim hope , rather make me feel positive about...
 

Shine76

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First post, bad grammar. It could well be someone on one of the other forums bored.... used to happen quite a bit..

Maybe I’m wrong......

I am sorry to say that you got wrong. My question was genunie, and my desperation made me to join here to get a valuable response. I had the response from other people. Again , I am not taking as a criticism.
 

RBSN

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14 Jul 2014
Messages
383
Hi,
It is my desperation, i am trying to find a whether do I get any chance as I failed on two diffierent parts of same assessment ( 1st time -March 2016, on matching same symbols and second time -Sept 2016, on two tone listening). I have to say it wasn't my day on second time. I had good result on group Bowen and the other I managed.
Is someone can help me to advise me about any possiblity to get another chance. I joined with railway in 2011 with the dream of becoming a Train Driver.

Please advise me about any possibilities from your experiences....
Thanks.


If you have taken the driver assessments and failed twice you can no longer apply.
 

Stigy

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May I ask how you know this? I’ve never known such a thing to happen before
I was told this by the OPC whilst going through the Freightliner process (at my stage one or stage two assessments, I can’t remember which), hence my second post in this thread (although I may not have been clear admittedly). I was told it was a guide all TOCs tend to work to, but not set in stone.
 

Highlandspring

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I know someone who started as groundstaff for a FOC, was encouraged to apply for a driver's job after a few years but failed the psychometric assessment twice. With the support of his line manager and Ops Safety department he was given a third chance which he passed and has been a driver for 5 or 6 years now. Presumably being existing staff and therefore a 'known quantity' (a weel kent face as we say in Scotland) persuaded management that it would be worth their while letting him have another attempt. I doubt many companies would take such a chance on an external candidate.
 

falcon

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May I ask how you know this? I’ve never known such a thing to happen before
I contacted the group standards or whoever it was that set the rules regarding assessments and they sent me the rules regarding assessments with and answer to the question " is it correct that a person can only take the assessments twice?" to which they told me it is not a rule it is a guide. It is up to the TOC involved.

I also know personally of a person who has taken the train drivers assessment three times and also that when Grand Central set up there trains they did not send anyone for assessment as they wanted the company up and running(their choice as the group standards had said).

I could tell you lots more about people who have failed the assessment on both saftey test and walked out the door of the assessment centre and were driving high speed trains the very next day.

It's all very opaque and really needs cleaning up. The whole assessment process is mired in dodgy inconsitent goings on.

Believe this 'if the TOC's needed drivers and guards desperately there would be no assessment'. That might tell you the real reason for the assessment process.
 

sw1ller

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I could tell you lots more about people who have failed the assessment on both saftey test and walked out the door of the assessment centre and were driving high speed trains the very next day.

You know of more than one person who has sat these tests and failed, then the next day they were driving around at 125mph?

As much as I believe there has been a blind eye shown here or there, I can’t see there ever being a situation as you’ve described.
 

8J

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643
The RSSB set the rules regarding the assessment for train drivers (no longer guards I believe as Northern have scrapped the industry standard tests for conductors for some online assessments)

They quite clearly say you can only complete the assessments twice however there is a bit in their policy that states that the tests can be completed a third time if there are mitigating circumstances. A bit vague I know but it is something that if you could prove may get you a third attempt at them.
 

ComUtoR

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In the official standards it states that the tests are only there as a guide, not a rule. The 'guide' is followed to maintain fairness and keep up a consistent standard across the industry. Otherwise recruitment would be a full blown nightmare and total chaos. Maintaining a standard set of practices and tests industry wide is the most sensible and logical approach.

This was changed a few years ago and TOCs were allowed to set their own tests in addition to the main ones and look where that has got us. Some require an enhanced pass, some just national. Not all TOCs have the same tests and a few require additional ones. Now there is a small degree of inconsistency you can see the problems it causes.

If the two strike rule was removed you would see a dramatic shift in the recruitment and to the candidates detriment. However, allowing for some wiggle room, it does give a TOC latitude to allow those candidates they feel may have just missed out or had mitigating circumstances to reapply. Considering the negativity on this forum surrounding the two strike rule, isn't that a good thing ?

The 5yr rules discussed on another thread comes about due to the reset and review process and your two strikes can be reset. This is due to occur this year as the 5yrs has lapsed since the last change (2013 iirc) so there should be a review. However, this doesn't guarantee a reset. Just a review every 5yrs.
 

falcon

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You know of more than one person who has sat these tests and failed, then the next day they were driving around at 125mph?

As much as I believe there has been a blind eye shown here or there, I can’t see there ever being a situation as you’ve described.

Virgin trains advertised for drivers externally at Newcastle it was Cross Country.

At least one driver from another TOC already driving on mainline applied and got assessment.

The driver attended the assessment and failed on both safty tests.

At the end of the assessment he is told by the examiner "you might be better applying for a guards job as you fell well bellow the standard required for a drivers position" not knowing he was a driver already. He told her he was already a driver to which she replied "I am surprised".

The driver left and was driving HST's the next day at 125mph.

This was not an isolated case as many TOC have advertised externally and had drivers from TOC's and frieght companies fail the assessments. Those drivers then went back to their driving jobs.

At leat one TOC is insitatant that even if a person is currently driving they still have to pass the assessment.

Another case:

A manager for a TOC who had driven for over 20 yrs previous to becoming a manager applied to EWS to go back to driving trains. He failed both safety test so EWS did not accept him as a driver.

The manager then applied to another TOC to drive trains and that TOC did not send him for an assessment as he had been a driver before and gave him the job.

Both people faile both safty test and were driving trains at 125mph and I might add very competently.

It cases and facts like this that show that the assessment is riddled with anomalies and is in reality being used for some other reason than just determining if someone is safe to drive a train.

The person who was driving the train that passed the danger signals and cancelled the AWS(never explained why) at Ladbroke Grove driving head on into an on coming HST had passed every part of the train drivers assessment with an A
 

sw1ller

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Ok, I can understand them examples, I was thinking along the lines of trainee. Most of the BR guys at our place say they’d never pass any of the tests. I think if you have 20 years experience behind you, you’re forgiven for failing these tests, which are really for new drivers and wether it’s worth employing them as a trainee.
 

heat1080

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You only have two chances at the train driver tests. But for the tests for gaurd etc, There is no limit.
 
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