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Chinley to Buxton, and vice versa

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flixtonman

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As an infrequent visitor to this website, I expect to be shot down immediately in flames when I ask why there are no passenger services on this railway track - but a novice on her would be grateful for your observations.
 
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tbtc

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From memory, the line from Chinley goes through to Peak Forest (rather than to Buxton, although it crosses the Hazel Grove - Buxton line a couple of times)?

I think if you run through beyond Peak Forest, you eventually loop back round towards Buxton but you wouldn't actually serve a platform there (without reversal).

I'd be up for a Sheffield - Edale - Buxton service if the infrastructure permitted it, but even if there was a simple link then any service from the Chinley/Edale line up to Buxton would be a path at the expense of a Sheffield/Chesterfield - Manchester one, which is quite an "opportunity cost" (given how limited paths through the Hope Valley are and how busy Sheffield - Manchester trains can get).

To end on a positive, it'd be quite a scenic trip, if any rail tour went that way, given the route through the Peak District :)
 

flixtonman

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From memory, the line from Chinley goes through to Peak Forest (rather than to Buxton, although it crosses the Hazel Grove - Buxton line a couple of times)?

I think if you run through beyond Peak Forest, you eventually loop back round towards Buxton but you wouldn't actually serve a platform there (without reversal).

I'd be up for a Sheffield - Edale - Buxton service if the infrastructure permitted it, but even if there was a simple link then any service from the Chinley/Edale line up to Buxton would be a path at the expense of a Sheffield/Chesterfield - Manchester one, which is quite an "opportunity cost" (given how limited paths through the Hope Valley are and how busy Sheffield - Manchester trains can get).

To end on a positive, it'd be quite a scenic trip, if any rail tour went that way, given the route through the Peak District :)
I guess I'm thinking about something akin to the old Buxton/Millers Dale shuttle. To re-phrase the question, what are the arguments against a Buxton/Chinley shuttle?
 

flixtonman

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Or continuing the Manchester to Buxton service forward on to Chinley. I repeat, I'm a novice on here so far as pathing issues/track suitability for passenger services issues are concerned.
 

Dr Hoo

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The lines from Chinley, through Peak Forest and up to Buxton are largely single track and effectively signalled to freight standards only. With the continual increase in aggregates and cement traffic there are very few spare paths for any extra trains at all. I have seen delayed freights wait in Earles sidings loop for over three hours waiting for a path up to Buxton and Hindlow.

For the limited number of non-car-owning individuals travelling specifically between Buxton and Chinley the change between New Mills Newtown and New Mills Central can actually be a pleasant walk and there are various cafes and pubs, etc. at which to stop for refreshment.
 

unlevel42

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The lines from Chinley, through Peak Forest and up to Buxton are largely single track and effectively signalled to freight standards only. With the continual increase in aggregates and cement traffic there are very few spare paths for any extra trains at all. I have seen delayed freights wait in Earles sidings loop for over three hours waiting for a path up to Buxton and Hindlow.

For the limited number of non-car-owning individuals travelling specifically between Buxton and Chinley the change between New Mills Newtown and New Mills Central can actually be a pleasant walk and there are various cafes and pubs, etc. at which to stop for refreshment.
The Rock is an excellent pub on the footpath between the New Millses*.
Chinley to Whalley Bridge is longer walk via three pubs and the largest narrowboat port in its time at Bu(x)gsworth.
Derbyshire buses are reliable.
Remember all the buses and trains are available for £6.50 as far as Derby Burton Sheffield with a Wayfarer.

*Use the Torvale Road path to get to Central
 

53703

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From memory, the line from Chinley goes through to Peak Forest (rather than to Buxton, although it crosses the Hazel Grove - Buxton line a couple of times)?

I think if you run through beyond Peak Forest, you eventually loop back round towards Buxton but you wouldn't actually serve a platform there (without reversal).

I'd be up for a Sheffield - Edale - Buxton service if the infrastructure permitted it, but even if there was a simple link then any service from the Chinley/Edale line up to Buxton would be a path at the expense of a Sheffield/Chesterfield - Manchester one, which is quite an "opportunity cost" (given how limited paths through the Hope Valley are and how busy Sheffield - Manchester trains can get).

To end on a positive, it'd be quite a scenic trip, if any rail tour went that way, given the route through the Peak District :)

I agree that a Sheffield - Buxton service would be useful but unfortunately as you said the infrastructure wouldn't permit it, going off topic slightly wasn't there reports about having the line being reopened between Buxton and Matlock funded by a cement company???
 

furnessvale

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I agree that a Sheffield - Buxton service would be useful but unfortunately as you said the infrastructure wouldn't permit it, going off topic slightly wasn't there reports about having the line being reopened between Buxton and Matlock funded by a cement company???
The quarries (and cement companies) have expressed interest in reopening Blackwell (near Buxton) to Matlock for freight, including a financial contribution.

Whether that is enough and getting the route back off cyclists and walkers is another matter.
 

furnessvale

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To end on a positive, it'd be quite a scenic trip, if any rail tour went that way, given the route through the Peak District :)
Rail tours often go that way and I would be surprised if there wasn't at least one this year.
 

STANDISH

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For those who have not been on these freight lines . UK Raitours are running a tour on 13th July this year. Check details on their web site for full details
 

mwmbwls

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I agree that a Sheffield - Buxton service would be useful but unfortunately as you said the infrastructure wouldn't permit it, going off topic slightly wasn't there reports about having the line being reopened between Buxton and Matlock funded by a cement company???

The re-opening of the line from Rowsley to Great Rocks has been debated extensively. IIRC - The last major exercise was in 2004 under the auspices of Derbyshire County Council.

https://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/site-...xecutive-summary-of-the-feasibility-study.pdf

I attended various sessions relating to this and many of the ideas proposed above were made then.

The basic conclusion was that:

"There are no insurmountable engineering difficulties in constructing a railway along the former corridor between Matlock and the existing Buxton to Chinley freight line at Blackwell Mill. However, a number of bridges will require to be replaced and a short section of new railway is required to pass around a gas regulator that has been constructed south of Rowsley.

Achieving a new station at Buxton, to suit the through route to Matlock, will, however, be difficult due to geometric, topographic and land use constraints. Two potential solutions have been identified including the continued use of the existing station (requiring trains to reverse direction). Neither are ideal. The more expensive option has been used in economic assessments of the project.

Significantly different levels of railway infrastructure are required to support the different options of rail service frequency.

Considerable work would be required to upgrade the existing freight-only route from Peak Forest to Chinley and this remains a key risk in using that route for new rail services".

As with many such schemes little was heard of this again until as you say a proposal from a tentative consortium of IIRC Peak Rail and a number of Aggregate and Cement companies suggested reviving the route. A key obstacle is the intransigent opposition of the owner of Haddon Hall, through whose grounds the line passed in a tunnel with cosmetic extensions at both ends to conceal the passage of trains. The removal of the bridge over the A6 at Rowsley further complicated the issue.

Since then there have been a number of successful initiatives to reopen similar lines – for example the first phases of the Borders and East West links, the success of which might encourage re-evaluation. There would need to be a lot of boxes to tick:

1: Harmonising a heavy rail route with the public access route through from Bakewell to Blackwell Mill

2: Establishing a pragmatic working relationship with Peak Rail who have made substantial investments in terms of both time and money establishing their project from Matlock to Darley Dale

3: Re-establishing infrastructure, in particular, in Buxton where the former alignment at the Midland station has been subsumed into the Spring Gardens Bypass. The former Station Yard at the North Western Station was converted into a bottling plant for Buxton for Buxton Water for many years until they relocated to larger premises on the outskirts of town. The site is now to be redeveloped for new medical facilities for the area. Various solutions have been proposed in the past including relocating Buxton Station to old Midland Railway Station Master’s House at the point where the railway crosses Fairfield Road – allowing further redevelopment of the existing LNWR station site..

4: Redoubling and resignalling the existing freight railways from Peak Forest to Buxton and Blackwell Mill.

5: Reconciling the objectives of stakeholders – the industrial interests are by and large catered for by existing arrangements and whilst they would be pleased to use any new facility that reduces their cost of delivery to destinations in the south may not be prepared to pay for an “all bells and whistles” reinvestment for other stake holders.

6:Passenger groups would undoubtedly like a revival of passenger links from Buxton to Matlock and beyond, together with links from Buxton to Sheffield but as has been stated track capacity through Derby has changed, the Hope Valley route is now the single Manchester to Sheffield corridor and the Midland Main Line and the Erewash Valley line is about to undergo radical change.

Whilst it is relatively easy to assemble a basket of synergies whereby if everything happened then there might be a project – there is the question of is there a “controlling mind” willing to put this all together? Derbyshire is a member for Transport for the North largely as a result of the vestigial links in the north of the county. There is also a combined programme with Derby City and Nottingham City and Shire concerning developments consequent on HS2. Whether any of these organisations would drive through a “doable” case with the DfT is at this point moot.
 
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brompton rail

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It should benoted that bus services between Sheffield and Buxton struggle. At one time there was a service via Baslow and Bakewell to Buxton (& even Hanley). That died some time ago. The 65 bus route vis Fox House, Eyam and Tideswellwas commercial and about every two hours, however last year the operator (High Peak) reduced it to 2 morning round trips only. Derbyshir CC then apointed Stagecoach to run the service on an approximately two hourly interval, leading High Peak to withdraw their two trips. So if the bus service needs subsidy the prospects for rail aren’t good.
Incidentally there is an hourly bus New Mills to Buxton from New Mills Bus Station which is about 200m from Cntral. Connections are poor, of course!
 

ian1944

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On the subject of the Sheffield/Hanley bus, I took it a couple of times between Buxton and Leek. A spectacular journey over Axe Edge and past the Roaches, and achievable on a Peak Wayfarer for a few pounds (this was a long time ago). Manchester to Buxton on Trandpeak, still running, then to Leek with I think PMT, then back to Manchester on a through bus from Derby (200?), latterly run by GM Buses South then Stagecoach.
 

furnessvale

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On the subject of the Sheffield/Hanley bus, I took it a couple of times between Buxton and Leek. A spectacular journey over Axe Edge and past the Roaches, and achievable on a Peak Wayfarer for a few pounds (this was a long time ago). Manchester to Buxton on Trandpeak, still running, then to Leek with I think PMT, then back to Manchester on a through bus from Derby (200?), latterly run by GM Buses South then Stagecoach.
Not anymore. Transpeak was cut back to Derby - Buxton last April.
 

TheSel

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Southport, Merseyside
In the summer of 1987, for a few weeks (from memory, it coincided with the six weeks of the Summer Holidays, or thereabouts), there was a Sunday / Bank Holiday "service" over this line, operated by a Class 108 DMU which carried a 'Peak Rail Rambler' headboard. Somewhere in the attic, I've probably got the timetable, but for now, here's M51926 having just arrived at Edale. Out of Buxton a hundred yards or so, then reversed and operated via Gt Rocks, Peak Dale and Chinley South & East Jctns. Well laden, too.

Edale001.jpg
 

Mugby

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Not anymore. Transpeak was cut back to Derby - Buxton last April.

No direct bus service from Derby to Manchester now for the first time since the 1930s, except one NAT EX journey at a very inconvenient time.

We could do with a direct rail link......oh, hang on!
 
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