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Halton Curve upgrade is on

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LNW-GW Joint

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See post above yours. Times have been included in the provisional May 2019 timetable.

It would be impossible to get decent connections in all directions at Chester, but the new Liverpool services arrive in general at xx24, and the Holyhead leaves at... xx24.
Works quite well eastbound and to/from Wrexham/Shrewsbury, though there will be a lot of rushing over the bridge each way to/from P5.
The single evening Liverpool-Wrexham service leaves Chester only 8 minutes after a Cardiff service.

There's also the new Chester-Leeds services to slot in, if and when they start.
This should be in the Timetables section I suppose.
 
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Phil from Mon

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Real Times Trains is showing Platforms 1 and 2. Isn’t P1 the terminating Bay for Chester services, and P2 the west-facing bay also used for reversals. Maybe this is just a holding platform for RTT and actual allocations will come later
 

sw1ller

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Isn’t P2 the west-facing bay? If so it is facing the wrong way for Liverpool services. Maybe this is just a holding platform for RTT and actual allocations will come later

Yeah, that’s correct, only way to Liverpool from P2 is up the Birkenhead line by diesel. (No 3rd rail)

Edit

I don’t know why it says P2 on the main RTT page because if you click into each service individually, it says P4.
 

PHILIPE

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Real Times Trains is showing Platforms 1 and 2. Isn’t P1 the terminating Bay for Chester services, and P2 the west-facing bay also used for reversals. Maybe this is just a holding platform for RTT and actual allocations will come later

They are not shown for 1 or 2, usually 4, 5 or 6. Platform 1 is mainly for Chester to Crewe shuttles and 2 is for through trains between Wrexham and Coast directions which reverse. Perhaps I may have misread your post, though
 

Phil from Mon

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They are not shown for 1 or 2, usually 4, 5 or 6. Platform 1 is mainly for Chester to Crewe shuttles and 2 is for through trains between Wrexham and Coast directions which reverse. Perhaps I may have misread your post, though
I was just looking at the overall RTT summary for Chester, not the detailed page for the service. That just shows P1 and P2.

On a second look it shows P1 and P2 for everything!
 
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PHILIPE

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I was just looking at the overall RTT summary for Chester, not the detailed page for the service. That just shows P1 and P2.

On a second look it shows P1 and P2 for everything!

RTT for me shows platforming of everything complete now (subject to alterations) The Liverpools could access any platform except 2.
 

mpb56125

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I was just looking at the overall RTT summary for Chester, not the detailed page for the service. That just shows P1 and P2.

On a second look it shows P1 and P2 for everything!
The line up is for Runcorn station and not Chester. If I done Chester it would have shown all TfW services. This is about services via Halton Curve and why Runcorn was chosen.

Mark
 

LNW-GW Joint

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For me, RTT shows the eastern bays at Chester (P5/6) for TfW Liverpool services, as you'd expect for terminating trains from the Helsby direction, occasionally P4.
The couple of through Wrexham services use P3.
P1 is for Crewe terminators (inc VT, unless they are attaching).
Wrexham-Coast services use P2/3/4 to reverse.
 
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sw1ller

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For me, RTT shows the eastern bays at Chester (P5/6) for TfW Liverpool services, as you'd expect for terminating trains from the Helsby direction, occasionally P4.
The couple of through Wrexham services use P3.
P1 is for Crewe terminators (inc VT, unless they are attaching).
Wrexham-Coast services use P2/3/4 to reverse.

5/6 will be heavily used by northern for their current and future Leeds services.

It would be better for them to use p7 more as they won’t incroach on MerseyRail services. But can you justify using a through platform for a terminating service??

Chester is desperate for remodelling. Merseyrail need use of an extra platform, be that p4 or a new p8/9. The need for an extra crossover at the box end is very high as you can have helsby inbound services arriving at 3 as one leaves from 4. As it is, this can’t happen, they can only do that from 7 (&5/6, but northern uses them mainly)

You then could do with depot access from p4 as a minimum. I can’t see how things will run smoothly with the increased services without these changes.
 

krus_aragon

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It would be better for them to use p7 more as they won’t incroach on MerseyRail services. But can you justify using a through platform for a terminating service??
Merseyrail seem to justify using p7 for terminating services... ;)

More practically, do the current signalling arrangements allow a train to terminate from Helsby in p7 while there's a Merseyrail unit at the other end?

(And in a few years' time, the Halton Curve services will be dividing at Chester and continuing west, so that'll change the platform requirements again.)
 

sw1ller

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Merseyrail seem to justify using p7 for terminating services... ;)

More practically, do the current signalling arrangements allow a train to terminate from Helsby in p7 while there's a Merseyrail unit at the other end?

(And in a few years' time, the Halton Curve services will be dividing at Chester and continuing west, so that'll change the platform requirements again.)

They do indeed. In fact, late at night we often have a unit at P7, with a merseyrail coming from one end and when that’s stopped we have a Cardiff (I think) train from Crewe at the other end, so 3 separate trains in there if that makes sense.
 

krus_aragon

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They do indeed. In fact, late at night we often have a unit at P7, with a merseyrail coming from one end and when that’s stopped we have a Cardiff (I think) train from Crewe at the other end, so 3 separate trains in there if that makes sense.

Thanks. I've been on a few Llandudno-Manchester services that have sailed into p7 before a Merseyrail follows them into the platform, but didn't know if it worked from the other direction.
 

frodshamfella

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Merseyrail seem to justify using p7 for terminating services... ;)

More practically, do the current signalling arrangements allow a train to terminate from Helsby in p7 while there's a Merseyrail unit at the other end?

(And in a few years' time, the Halton Curve services will be dividing at Chester and continuing west, so that'll change the platform requirements again.)

It's a crying shame that isn't happening from the outset, the potential for Halton Curve is not terminating trains at Chester but running them into Wales.
 

PHILIPE

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Thanks. I've been on a few Llandudno-Manchester services that have sailed into p7 before a Merseyrail follows them into the platform, but didn't know if it worked from the other direction.

There's also a VTWC from Holyhead to Euston runs through 7 during the gap between Merseyrail services
 

krus_aragon

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It's a crying shame that isn't happening from the outset, the potential for Halton Curve is not terminating trains at Chester but running them into Wales.
Oh, for the rolling stock that would be needed to do that... :rolleyes:

Still, at least the stock is on order.
 

sw1ller

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Yeah, it’s caused a few
There's also a VTWC from Holyhead to Euston runs through 7 during the gap between Merseyrail services

What time does that happen? I’ve seen empty virgin stock on the through and goods roads next to 7 but I’ve never seen one in 7. (Not suggesting it doesn’t happen, just curious as to when it does, thanks)
 

Matt_pool

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Bit of a shame that the Liverpool to Chester service won't be stopping at Edge Hill, Mossley Hill and West Allerton.

It might have encouraged more people back onto using trains on a service that Northern has decimated over the past 7 months with delays, cancellations and strikes!
 

craigybagel

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Bit of a shame that the Liverpool to Chester service won't be stopping at Edge Hill, Mossley Hill and West Allerton.

It might have encouraged more people back onto using trains on a service that Northern has decimated over the past 7 months with delays, cancellations and strikes!

It would have discouraged those from further out who don't have an alternative service with the slower journey times. It would also make it harder to do the round trip inside of 2 hours, which only requires 2 units.
 

frodshamfella

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Bit of a shame that the Liverpool to Chester service won't be stopping at Edge Hill, Mossley Hill and West Allerton.

It might have encouraged more people back onto using trains on a service that Northern has decimated over the past 7 months with delays, cancellations and strikes!

Yes can understand That, Although when it goes beyond Chester you wouldt wouldn't want that. I suppose it's too far ahead to know if the frequency will be more over the curve allowing for a fast and slow service ?
 

cle

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Yes can understand That, Although when it goes beyond Chester you wouldt wouldn't want that. I suppose it's too far ahead to know if the frequency will be more over the curve allowing for a fast and slow service ?

I would hope so - 4tph over the curve wouldn't be too crazy.

You could have a 'slow' to Chester/Wrexham and then a faster service along the North Wales route. Maybe hourly alternating between Holyhead and Llandudno...with just a call at LSP before Chester.

Runcorn up for debate on the fast - I think just the slow would be fine. Usage is less than 800k compared to 2.2m at LSP - I wouldn't say it's overserved, but nor do I think it's too sacred to skip on the odd service, with such light use.
 

frodshamfella

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I would hope so - 4tph over the curve wouldn't be too crazy.

You could have a 'slow' to Chester/Wrexham and then a faster service along the North Wales route. Maybe hourly alternating between Holyhead and Llandudno...with just a call at LSP before Chester.

Runcorn up for debate on the fast - I think just the slow would be fine. Usage is less than 800k compared to 2.2m at LSP - I wouldn't say it's overserved, but nor do I think it's too sacred to skip on the odd service, with such light use.

I imagine there would be some people from Runcorn who would find a Welsh direct service handy, have to see. There was a plan to add a station for Beechwood area of Runcorn, I understand there is a provision made for it for the future. Shame they just didn't just build it at the same time !
 

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*I'll put good money that a 175 is used on the inaugural service, at least.
I fully expect a train in TfW livery to be used. That does limit things a bit.
That looks like a last minute change, wasn't it? From the look of things, the Cardiff train got into Chester platform 4 on time but left 4 minutes late. Perhaps the Virgin train was switched to platform 7 because they weren't sure if platform 4 would become free in a reasonable period of time.

The train today used platform 4, and every Virgin train is booked into 1, 3 and 4 tomorrow. They do swap things around fairly often, though.
 
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Phil from Mon

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That looks like a last minute change, wasn't it? From the look of things, the Cardiff train got into Chester platform 4 on time but left 4 minutes late. Perhaps the Virgin train was switched to platform 7 because they weren't sure if platform 4 would become free in a reasonable period of time.

The train today used platform 4, and every Virgin train is booked into 1, 3 and 4 tomorrow. They do swap things around fairly often, though.

In the many years I have caught that train to London I have only ever known it use Platform 4.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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It's usually the Manchester via Warrington that gets sent via P7 (east end).
P4 (west end) is often used by Shrewsbury-Holyhead reversers and can be one reason why P7 is used for the next Up train.
 

frodshamfella

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It's nice that the Welsh train operator is going to be seen back in Lime Street. I do remember catching a Cardiff service at Runcorn in the past . Good the connections are beginning to return especially via the curve this time around
 

PHILIPE

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I fully expect a train in TfW livery to be used. That does limit things a bit.

That looks like a last minute change, wasn't it? From the look of things, the Cardiff train got into Chester platform 4 on time but left 4 minutes late. Perhaps the Virgin train was switched to platform 7 because they weren't sure if platform 4 would become free in a reasonable period of time.

The train today used platform 4, and every Virgin train is booked into 1, 3 and 4 tomorrow. They do swap things around fairly often, though.

Correct. Changed to 7 on the day I happened to select.
 
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