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Creation of class 230 DEMUs from ex-LU D78s by Vivarail

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I found an article saying that a 2 cars Class 230 will have 4 batteries each with a capacity of 106 kwh. This obviously giving a total capacity for a 2 cars train of 424 kwh. So using the range figure of 64km. On the subject of range, i initially though that the range would be around 62 miles. So whether the article is wrong, or the range is only 64 km and not miles, we will have to find out at a later date.

424 kw is not a lot really considering the Nissan Leaf has 40 and weighs at most 2 tonnes when loaded, and a loaded Class 230 will most likely weight 100 tonnes at least.

Article link for those interested: https://www.railway-technology.com/projects/class-230-d-train/
 

big all

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cheers for the link
to be fair the drag for rubber on tarmac is about perhaps 10 times greater so 10times per tonne for the same distance
so assuming the ally coaches are perhaps 30tonnes including batteries and a leaf is perhaps 1.25 tonnes you would need about perhaps 2.5 times the power to move a 30 tonne train a mile at say 40mph over a car at 40 mph
 

superkev

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The battery tech is moving so fast, capacity & cost will not be an issue in a few years
I wouldn't live in hopes myself. There are only so many electrons to be had in a lump of lithium.
The only thing that may improve significantly are cost and hopefully life.
Interesting many bus companies are convertoning there government green grant funded hybrid buses back to straight diesel when faced with a £35k bill to replace the battery after typically 7 years.
K
 

class387

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Does anyone know how close 230004/005 are to being delivered? Seems to be quite quiet. Also is 230003 close to being ready for service now?
 

Journeyman

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Anyone have any links to the spec sheets for the Class 230’s which include things like the weight of the units and the dimensions.

From the Wikipedia entry for the D Stock:

Car length Driving motor 18.37 m (60 ft 3 in)
Trailer 18.12 m (59 ft 5 in)
Width 2.85 m (9 ft 4 in)
Height 3.62 m (11 ft 11 in)

They have weights on there as well, but obviously the rebuild is extensive, involving structural alterations and widespread component upgrades, so would suspect they'd be a bit heavier now. D Stock motor cars weigh 27 tons and trailers 18.4 tons.
 

Bletchleyite

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Interestingly they will be the widest stock on the mainline - nothing else that I can think of is wider than 2.82m. Presumably only possible because of the short vehicles.
 

Journeyman

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Interestingly they will be the widest stock on the mainline - nothing else that I can think of is wider than 2.82m. Presumably only possible because of the short vehicles.

They're only that wide at solebar level. They have a slightly inward-sloping body profile, and get narrower as you go up to the roof. This is somewhat different to the curved body profile of most UK rolling stock, which is widest part way up the body side.
 

gingertom

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From the Wikipedia entry for the D Stock:

Car length Driving motor 18.37 m (60 ft 3 in)
Trailer 18.12 m (59 ft 5 in)
Width 2.85 m (9 ft 4 in)
Height 3.62 m (11 ft 11 in)

They have weights on there as well, but obviously the rebuild is extensive, involving structural alterations and widespread component upgrades, so would suspect they'd be a bit heavier now. D Stock motor cars weigh 27 tons and trailers 18.4 tons.
the traction motors have been replaced with ac motors and IGBT drives. AC motors are a lighter than similarly-rated DC ones. Then they go sticking on engines, alternators, fuel tanks and battery rafts.
 
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What are the formations for this unit? Then we could work out how much a 2 and 3 car set weighs before modification.
 

DarloRich

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The numbers of class 230 test runs seem to have ramped up lately and i have heard tell of driver training having started. Still only one unit down at Blethcley.
 

73001

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Always confuses me when people talk about weight. We are supposed to say Tonnes which i metric but many say tons. I can never tell if they mean tonnes but just say tons.
Being pedantic we're supposed to say Newtons for weight. The mass would be in tons or tonnes.
 

samuelmorris

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Always confuses me when people talk about weight. We are supposed to say Tonnes which i metric but many say tons. I can never tell if they mean tonnes but just say tons.
Probably just base it on context - steam locos it's probably tons, anything current in the UK I imagine will have been referred to in tonnes for at least the last few decades.
 

coppercapped

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Always confuses me when people talk about weight. We are supposed to say Tonnes which i metric but many say tons. I can never tell if they mean tonnes but just say tons.
Just to add to the confusion people often don't make or understand the difference between weight and mass... :'(

(sorree, I've just seen that 73001 got there first!)
 
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Just to add to the confusion people often don't make or understand the difference between weight and mass... :'(

(sorree, I've just seen that 73001 got there first!)

Doesn't really matter does it. My comment was about whether people use Tonnes or Tons, not weight or mass.
 

edwin_m

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Being pedantic we're supposed to say Newtons for weight. The mass would be in tons or tonnes.
Being even more pedantic we're not supposed to capitalise names of units such as newtons. When capitalised it refers to the person the unit was named after.
 

boxy321

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I wouldn't live in hopes myself. There are only so many electrons to be had in a lump of lithium.
The only thing that may improve significantly are cost and hopefully life.
Interesting many bus companies are convertoning there government green grant funded hybrid buses back to straight diesel when faced with a £35k bill to replace the battery after typically 7 years.
K
I looked into a hybrid car a few years and asked the main dealer:

Me: 'How long do the batteries last?
Dealer: 'How much mileage do you do etc. etc.?'
Me: 'blah blah.'
Dealer: '7 years.'
Me: 'How much are a set of new batteries?'
Dealer: 'I'll have to ask our maintenance dept.'

He daren't tell me over the phone. Thousands I expect. Who'd buy a second hand hybrid car with that hanging over you?
 

Bletchleyite

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Who'd buy a second hand hybrid car with that hanging over you?

Depends how long you're going to own it for. Most new cars are bought/leased and kept for about 3 years. The second owner then buys used and keeps it for 4-5 years, at which point it tends to be worth little more than a few hundred quid. With a hybrid/electric vehicle, it might then just be recycled (i.e. scrapped) at that point instead of sold on as a banger as a petrol car might.

So the people it will cause issues for are those who buy bangers for a few hundred or buy cars then keep them 10+ years and run into the ground.

The batteries are also unlikely to "fall off a cliff", just as most petrol engines don't just explode one day (unless maintenance has been neglected, e.g. cam belts), rather they deteriorate in capacity over time. So you might find there's a life beyond 7 years for someone who just wants a cheap runaround for local journeys only, doing maybe ten miles between charges if that.
 

HLE

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Depends how long you're going to own it for. Most new cars are bought/leased and kept for about 3 years. The second owner then buys used and keeps it for 4-5 years, at which point it tends to be worth little more than a few hundred quid. With a hybrid/electric vehicle, it might then just be recycled (i.e. scrapped) at that point instead of sold on as a banger as a petrol car might.

So the people it will cause issues for are those who buy bangers for a few hundred or buy cars then keep them 10+ years and run into the ground.

The batteries are also unlikely to "fall off a cliff", just as most petrol engines don't just explode one day (unless maintenance has been neglected, e.g. cam belts), rather they deteriorate in capacity over time. So you might find there's a life beyond 7 years for someone who just wants a cheap runaround for local journeys only, doing maybe ten miles between charges if that.

Rubbish. Depends on the car of course but a 9 year old car is worth more than a few hundred quid, try a couple of grand at least providing it's in good condition and not high mileage. I'd agree that most are bangers after 15 years.

I bought a 9 year old car a couple of years back for 2.5k, and sold it six months ago for 2k. That was still £2-300 cheaper than most private sellers were asking on auto trader for the same spec vehicle

It wasn't a premium car either, it was a Suzuki which cost 9k new in 2007!
 

Emblematic

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The reality is that EV batteries have greatly outperformed the manufacturers very conservative forecasts, and are only showing 10-20% loss of capacity after very high mileages & cycles. Battery leasing was used as a means of providing a risk-free option to prospective purchasers with concerns for battery life, but most buyers now prefer the outright purchase option as the battery is no longer seen as a risk.
 

A0wen

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I looked into a hybrid car a few years and asked the main dealer:

Me: 'How long do the batteries last?
Dealer: 'How much mileage do you do etc. etc.?'
Me: 'blah blah.'
Dealer: '7 years.'
Me: 'How much are a set of new batteries?'
Dealer: 'I'll have to ask our maintenance dept.'

He daren't tell me over the phone. Thousands I expect. Who'd buy a second hand hybrid car with that hanging over you?

Slightly OT - but how about the obvious failures on diesel cars of EGR valves, turbo, intercooler and DMF / Clutch.

That can easily land you with a bill of £ 1,500 - £ 2,000 and on a much younger car than the hybrid battery failure would be.
 
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