I've always assumed that resurrection of a public service through Okehampton to Tavistock would mean the end of the Dartmoor Railway. It doesn't preserve anything worth having, as it is, that could not be preserved elsewhere.
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Any news on proposals to build an alternative route between Exeter & Plymouth?
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Whatever the type of bridge constructed, if the BCR stacks up a bridge might be built, if not then no bridge will be built no matter what the speculation might be.
Charlie Smythe
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The old bridge would need so much work to return it to working order that you might as well re build it, which you can't do because its listed. That's why they will build a new one.
Charlie Smythe
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It would mean an end most likely as i doubt they would be able to share track.
Surely the 500 million cost of re-routing the existing line in Dawlish, would pay for the secondary route via Okehampton (with change to spare)?
Even then, is it guaranteed this re-routed section won't be closed, or subjected to delays during bad weather?
Just seems utter madness, and a waste of money to me. Especially when a secondary route would cost significantly less and serve "new" areas.
Even then, is it guaranteed this re-routed section won't be closed, or subjected to delays during bad weather?
Just seems utter madness, and a waste of money to me. Especially when a secondary route would cost significantly less and serve "new" areas.
It sometimes seems that the process is deliberately stacked against reopening anything - even when it is beneficial and justified.
This from the reply from DCC give an idea of what they are up against.
Devon County Council has nevertheless been making progress with acquiring land between Tavistock and Bere Alston over several years and has been undertaking the necessary environmental, ecological and topographical surveys to enable our designers to better understand some of the barriers to delivery with the project – from experience, our strength in convincing Government to fund major infrastructure projects (such as the North Devon Link Road improvements and South Devon Link Road), is being able to demonstrate that design work is at an advanced stage and land has been secured to give funders assurances that we have a deliverable project.
So, they have to spend before Gov approval to have any chance of turning it into reality. I doubt it guarantees Gov funding though. Government is the weakest link, or to be precise, the Treasury/Whitehall. £60 million was the DCC figure so, £440 million still left out of the £500 million for Dawlish, assuming that figure is correct.
Devon County Council has nevertheless been making progress with acquiring land between Tavistock and Bere Alston over several years and has been undertaking the necessary environmental, ecological and topographical surveys to enable our designers to better understand some of the barriers to delivery with the project – from experience, our strength in convincing Government to fund major infrastructure projects (such as the North Devon Link Road improvements and South Devon Link Road), is being able to demonstrate that design work is at an advanced stage and land has been secured to give funders assurances that we have a deliverable project.
So, they have to spend before Gov approval to have any chance of turning it into reality. I doubt it guarantees Gov funding though. Government is the weakest link, or to be precise, the Treasury/Whitehall. £60 million was the DCC figure so, £440 million still left out of the £500 million for Dawlish, assuming that figure is correct.
Charlie Smythe
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The 500 million is to build out a causeway from Smuglers Lane, past spray point to Teignmouth to move the line away from the cliffs.
You can also throw these in that I took in 2016 from some rather challenging angles...
Harbornite
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In case anyone would rather not see the removal of the Dartmoor Railway and Meldon Viaduct, remember that there is another bypass route, which, like the ex LSWR route is still in situ at either end (to varying extents)...
Do you mean the Teign Valley route through Ide, Longdown etc?
That is impressive! Thanks for posting them Skytower.
Harbornite
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Not initially, it was transferred to Exeter Riverside and then lost.
Harbornite
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Indeedy. I'm currently trying to follow it on google maps, I was aware of the surviving (albeit unused) bits at Marsh Barton and Teigngrace but not much else!
I still think the Okehampton route would be better for transport connections throughout Devon. If the viaduct can't be repaired, they could build a Swiss style structure alongside.
It's a tricky one really. These are some of the problems with that route:
The section a few hundred yards after the Marsh Barton scrapyard bit has been used for the A377/A30 link road, then one of the tunnels near Longdown (Perridge Tunnel) has had a partial collapse due (I believe) to a natural fault line occurring in the middle of it. The line was only ever a single track branch so isn't laid out for fast running, and further on it's always been prone to flooding.
The end near Heathfield now has the A38 Expressway built on it too.
It's a shame really because in a lot of ways it could be a useful answer to some of these problems now even if it had remained as single line but with a few extra passing loops...
I think it's been pretty much discounted by Network Rail as an alternative now.
It must've been a beautiful journey when it was open though.
Busaholic
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I did a fair amount of reading on the internet about this route three or four years ago, and from what I remember the reluctant conclusion was that the Exeter end is non-reconnectable in any feasible way. This was not the case for a long time after the route's closure, because it was safeguarded (at the Northern end, at least) but this was quietly removed earlier this century, I think it was.
Sir Felix Pole
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The Teign Valley is a complete non-starter as an alternative Exeter to Newton Abbot route. It was a single-track, steeply graded branch line with multiple level-crossings and prone to serious flooding - final closure to freight occurred with a terminal and serious wash-out. The formation has been lost between Alphington and Ide with the A30 / M5 interchange - between Chudleigh and Chudleigh Knighton it is beneath the A38 Expressway. The tunnel at Longdown has also partially collapsed. Politicians regularly trot it out as a solution to the 'Dawlish' problem - it really isn't.
Charlie Smythe
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It may look in good order but it is not good enough to take a train.
Cliveblackpool
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Teign Valley - Perridge tunnel single track, has partially collapsed, and in a dangerous condition
Sprey Point / Smugglers Lane - That is further down the track from the last problem, when the track was washed away at Dawlish. http://www.loveteignmouth.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Sea-Wall-from-Sprey-Point.jpg
Charlie Smythe
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I know that but the 500 million was for the causeway and not for dawlish sea defences.
https://peninsularailtaskforce.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/prtf-closing-the-gap.pdf
Capacity and comfort - Long Term Strategy 2030+
Extract from the above.
Dartmoor Northern Route Phase 3. Completion of the northern route through
a 90mph predominantly single track route between Coleford Jn and Tavistock
including a North Cornwall Parkway station.
Provide passenger services to an area of poor accessibility and rural deprivation. Improves connectivity to northern Cornwall. Improves resilience through provision of a
diversionary route.
Inclusion in the long term rail industry electrification programme to the South west
peninsula, building on partial electrification that has taken place.
Improved resilience, performance benefits, fuel savings and environmental benefits.
Notes: * Assumed similar cost to the Tavistock reopening to cover upgrade of the Okehampton route (GSM R and linespeed etc), creation of long dynamic loop around Crediton by converting and upgrading the parallel single lines to Coleford divergence and extending the existing loop eastwards.
**Capacity between Westbury and Reading for mix of passenger and freight was identified as the prime constraint on capacity by the Western Route study. Resolving this is essential to provide reliable journey times.
****Costs taken as approximates from ARUP 2013 study for DfT.
So, it is official or at least the intention is official. A 90mph line via Okehampton and Tavistock, presumably by slewing across curves to allow higher speeds. No doubt the Gov will delay and prevaricate for ages. Also mentioned.....
Part re-doubling from Castle Cary to Yeovil and beyond to Exeter
Hungerford diversion (?)
Westbury platform 4 reopening
Selective electrification over Dainton, presumably not in the tunnel.
Capacity and comfort - Long Term Strategy 2030+
Extract from the above.
Dartmoor Northern Route Phase 3. Completion of the northern route through
a 90mph predominantly single track route between Coleford Jn and Tavistock
including a North Cornwall Parkway station.
Provide passenger services to an area of poor accessibility and rural deprivation. Improves connectivity to northern Cornwall. Improves resilience through provision of a
diversionary route.
Inclusion in the long term rail industry electrification programme to the South west
peninsula, building on partial electrification that has taken place.
Improved resilience, performance benefits, fuel savings and environmental benefits.
Notes: * Assumed similar cost to the Tavistock reopening to cover upgrade of the Okehampton route (GSM R and linespeed etc), creation of long dynamic loop around Crediton by converting and upgrading the parallel single lines to Coleford divergence and extending the existing loop eastwards.
**Capacity between Westbury and Reading for mix of passenger and freight was identified as the prime constraint on capacity by the Western Route study. Resolving this is essential to provide reliable journey times.
****Costs taken as approximates from ARUP 2013 study for DfT.
So, it is official or at least the intention is official. A 90mph line via Okehampton and Tavistock, presumably by slewing across curves to allow higher speeds. No doubt the Gov will delay and prevaricate for ages. Also mentioned.....
Part re-doubling from Castle Cary to Yeovil and beyond to Exeter
Hungerford diversion (?)
Westbury platform 4 reopening
Selective electrification over Dainton, presumably not in the tunnel.
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Robertj21a
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DynamicSpirit
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Sounds good. But then I started wondering who the Peninsular Rail Taskforce are, since I'd never heard of them before. Turns out that...
PeninsularRailTaskforce said:
(Link)
So it does have many of the main local councils behind it, but it's not official in the sense of not being from either the Government or Network Rail.
Exactly - it has nobody with any serious money to spend. Basically professional crayonista
Charlie Smythe
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What annoys me about the railways is that for some reason we are obsessed with journey times to the point where it dictates everything. For example there is a whole map on that "Peninusla Rail Task Force" document which shows and labels all the improvements that they are going to make. One of the examples is "Daignton Banks selective electrification (1 mins saved)". Who actually cares about journey times. If it takes and hour it takes an hour. No point in spending millions to get an hour down to 55 minutes. I would rather have a reliable service with decent trains than keeping the old trains and spending all the money reducing journey time by 5 minutes.
Well, as I said, the Gov will probably suffocate it but, it is at least an official plan by the authorities in the west, not only an enthusiast dream. A lot of the other schemes mentioned have happened or are underway, if you read it, which is a positive at least. If only Devon was in Scotland, we would have physical progress. (yes, I know there is a (Crook of) Devon in Scotland)
I agree about silly 1 min time savings though.
I agree about silly 1 min time savings though.
It's the same for roads and any other transport investment. The great majority of pecuniary benefits in Cost / Benefit Ratio is calculated on time savings. Commercial travel gains a higher price of time savings than Leisure or Commuting.
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