GWR Class 165/166 Turbo Diagrams

Right Away · 7 Jan 2019

The Cardiff to Portsmouth trains are all timed for 75mph stock. A 150 will keep to time on the route. Worth mentioning that 16x units are still restricted to a maximum speed of 75mph between Cardiff and the Severn Tunnel as the Sectional Appendix doesn't permit 165/166 stock to take advantage of differential HST speeds (although 168s can). 158s can however run at differential HST speeds up to their maximum speed of 90mph.

The increase in capacity for local high demand flows is welcome. The cramped 2+3 seating, lack of seat back tables as well as the inability to provide seat reservations to those who have booked is less so.

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Clarence Yard · 7 Jan 2019

I'm looking at the 03/01/19 gauging certificates now (CGA/NAT/166 RHM issue 21 and CGA/NAT/165 RHM issue 10) now and Turbos are not banned, as such, on the DML through Fratton but there is currently an OPPOS between the DML and Back Road line, No 1 Reception Sidings and Carriage Sidings Lines. Similarly Platform 4 is not banned at Harbour (3 and 5 are) but there is an OPPOS between 3 and 4 if a Turbo is in 4.

I know NR gauging are currently (as at today) looking at getting these OPPOS restrictions lifted fairly quickly in time for the next issue of the certificate.

Right Away · 7 Jan 2019

Clarence Yard said:
I'm looking at the 03/01/19 gauging certificates now (CGA/NAT/166 RHM issue 21 and CGA/NAT/165 RHM issue 10) now and Turbos are not banned, as such, on the DML through Fratton but there is currently an OPPOS between the DML and Back Road line, No 1 Reception Sidings and Carriage Sidings Lines. Similarly Platform 4 is not banned at Harbour (3 and 5 are) but there is an OPPOS between 3 and 4 if a Turbo is in 4.

I know NR gauging are currently (as at today) looking at getting these OPPOS restrictions lifted fairly quickly in time for the next issue of the certificate.

Many thanks for this. I gather that there is to be a 165 heading to Fratton fuel point some time next week during the daytime for staff familiarisation and gauging.

Johncleesefan · 7 Jan 2019

Right Away said:
staff familiarisation and gauging.

Familiarisation? Exactly the same as 166 minus a coach

Right Away · 7 Jan 2019

Johncleesefan said:
Familiarisation? Exactly the same as 166 minus a coach

Fuel point staff not train crew!
None of the Fratton fuel point staff have yet had a chance to have a play with a Turbo unit.

Lockwood · 7 Jan 2019

How much familiarisation is needing for fuelling?
Open fuelling cap, insert nozzle into side of unit.
Depress trigger.
Wait for it to click.
Force a bit more out to tick over to next complete litre to get the extra Nectar point.

Right Away · 7 Jan 2019

Lockwood said:
How much familiarisation is needing for fuelling?
Open fuelling cap, insert nozzle into side of unit.
Depress trigger.
Wait for it to click.
Force a bit more out to tick over to next complete litre to get the extra Nectar point.

Being serious, different traction types have differing types of equipment in different places. What about coolant, hydrostatic oil tank locations, sight glass locations, isolating cocks etc?

Johncleesefan · 7 Jan 2019

As far as I’m aware they’re exactly the same below solebar

Right Away · 7 Jan 2019

Johncleesefan said:
As far as I’m aware they’re exactly the same below solebar

If you think a 158 and 16x unit are the same below solebar, you should put in for a traction refresher immediately.

Johncleesefan · 7 Jan 2019

Right Away said:
If you think a 158 and 16x unit are the same below solebar, you should put in for a traction refresher immediately.

Errrrm no! I think a 166 and a 165 are exactly the same below solebar

Just to expand, since you mentioned a 165 going down for fuellers to gander at I assumed 166s must have already been seen. Maybe not, again, shambles

Right Away · 7 Jan 2019

Johncleesefan said:
Errrrm no! I think a 166 and a 165 are exactly the same below solebar

Just to expand, since you mentioned a 165 going down for fuellers to gander at I assumed 166s must have already been seen. Maybe not, again, shambles

I think our wires have got crossed. The SWR depot staff haven't had a chance to have a look at any 16x unit yet, hence the unit being sent down for familiarisation. The differences between the Turbo units and the Sprinter 15x units they are accustomed to are deemed enough to warrant a unit to look at.

Your last word nicely sums up their introduction to the route.

37254 · 7 Jan 2019

Will the class 165s go to Brighton or will that route still be a 158?

PHILIPE · 7 Jan 2019

37254 said:
Will the class 165s go to Brighton or will that route still be a 158?

They will eventually but not until there are enough of them available.

Johncleesefan · 7 Jan 2019

Right Away said:
I think our wires have got crossed. The SWR depot staff haven't had a chance to have a look at any 16x unit yet, hence the unit being sent down for familiarisation. The differences between the Turbo units and the Sprinter 15x units they are accustomed to are deemed enough to warrant a unit to look at.

Your last word nicely sums up their introduction to the route.

That would make sense then if they haven’t seen any turbos. With the amount of restrictions in place and poorly worded brief to suggest you can’t actually even reach the harbour (see above posts) I just can’t believe aslef have okayed this.
And as for deflated air bags. Oh don’t even go there hahaha

Clarence Yard · 7 Jan 2019

That brief seems complete pants. I too am surprised that ASLEF haven’t been all over it and asked to see the gauging certificate.

If they had they would have seen that the restrictions are not that great and, from what has been reported, don’t seem to match what the brief said.

But, having said all that, gauging these days is not total clear at once. There always seem to be some annoying restrictions which have to be subsequently removed. Sometimes these are added at the last minute, which really winds everyone up!

pompeyfan · 8 Jan 2019

Seeing as everything is clear as mud this will surely help

Up Fratton Line - Signaller will caution services, but will avoid using it where possible, however the GWR Sprinter services have to use it.
Down Fratton Line - Signaller will caution services, but will avoid using it where possible, however the GWR Sprinter services have to use it.

There’s currently an issue with the running shunt signal and it would appear that Havant box, or the WICC don’t understand the gauging certificate either!

swt_passenger · 8 Jan 2019

pompeyfan said:
Seeing as everything is clear as mud this will surely help
[...]
There’s currently an issue with the running shunt signal and it would appear that Havant box, or the WICC don’t understand the gauging certificate either!

Up Fratton Line?
Down Fratton line?
Is this actually the “platform 2” line, with separate names for each direction?
Sprinters? Did they mean Turbos?

Right Away · 10 Jan 2019

Further to the above regarding a Turbo going to Fratton fuel point next week, the timings have appeared.

Monday 14th
5Z88 0921 Westbury Sidings to Fratton FP
5F34 1900 Fratton FP to Portsmouth Hbr

Tuesday 15th
Same as Monday

Wednesday 16th
5F09 1303 Portsmouth Hbr to Fratton FP
5F34 1900 Fratton FP to Portsmouth Hbr

Thursday 17th
Same as Wednesday

SWTrainspottin · 15 Jan 2019

These two seem to be the Turbo operated services between Cardiff and Portsmouth on a weekday currently.

1F05 0730 Cardiff - Portsmouth
1F16 1123 Portsmouth - Cardiff
1F25 1530 Cardiff - Portsmouth
1F34 1923 Portsmouth - Cardiff

1F09 0930 Cardiff - Portsmouth
1F20 1323 Portsmouth - Cardiff
1F29 1730 Cardiff - Portsmouth
2M95 2123 Portsmouth - Westbury

Parallel · 15 Jan 2019

SWTrainspottin said:
These two seem to be the Turbo operated services between Cardiff and Portsmouth on a weekday currently.

1F05 0730 Cardiff - Portsmouth
1F16 1123 Portsmouth - Cardiff
1F25 1530 Cardiff - Portsmouth
1F34 1923 Portsmouth - Cardiff

1F09 0930 Cardiff - Portsmouth
1F20 1323 Portsmouth - Cardiff
1F29 1730 Cardiff - Portsmouth
2M95 2123 Portsmouth - Westbury

Thanks for sharing. Are these currently booked for 3 or 5 coaches??

PHILIPE · 15 Jan 2019

Parallel said:
Thanks for sharing. Are these currently booked for 3 or 5 coaches??

5 coaches 165 +166 and well documented for ages (seems like years). Sometimes have only 3 available though

Parallel · 15 Jan 2019

PHILIPE said:
5 coaches 165 +166 and well documented for ages (seems like years). Sometimes have only 3 available though

Thanks. I haven’t seen them on this route with my own eyes yet so wanted to check.

tnc1997 · 16 Jan 2019

Good Morning. Just thought I'd mention that 1B01 0558 Westbury to Cardiff Central was operated by a turbo this morning. Is this as booked or to cover for a 158, as it's the first time I've caught this service since Christmas. Apologies if I've missed anything. Cheers.

PHILIPE · 16 Jan 2019

tnc1997 said:
Good Morning. Just thought I'd mention that 1B01 0558 Westbury to Cardiff Central was operated by a turbo this morning. Is this as booked or to cover for a 158, as it's the first time I've caught this service since Christmas. Apologies if I've missed anything. Cheers.

There are changes for a couple of days due to route testing Turbos round the Fratton area and Depot requiring units running attached back and forth to Pompey so certain jobs have to be Turbos because of the coupling compatibility. It could be part of a gradual introduction of Turbos on to more services as they become availability.

irish_rail · 16 Jan 2019

pompeyfan said:
Completely agree with what you’re saying. Hopefully the turbo stock will be modified as was the original plan, I won’t hold my breath though. Very poor decision when they could have put Turbos further west and made the Portsmouth line 5 car 158s with a bit of reforming.

And why on earth put the turbos further west they are not designed for services to Cornwall. Leave them where they are. 158s will be well suited to services on the Exeter to penzance mainline.

pompeyfan · 16 Jan 2019

irish_rail said:
And why on earth put the turbos further west they are not designed for services to Cornwall. Leave them where they are. 158s will be well suited to services on the Exeter to penzance mainline.

But they (158s) were better suited where they were, just in a longer form. A mix of Turbos and HSTs is a massive upgrade compared to the current fare of 150s on the Devon & Cornwall lines. where as a turbo is a commuter train being placed on an inter regional service through to Portsmouth and Brighton.

JN114 · 16 Jan 2019

Both routes are inter-regional. There are enough 158s to do the inter-regional work in Devon and Cornwall. There aren’t enough to have them do Portsmouth - Cardiff. It really is as simple as that.

pompeyfan · 16 Jan 2019

I suppose someone was always going to lose it, just not nice when it’s you. Still at least the west will be able to enjoy sensibly configured 158s as well as refurbished HSTs. The fact people on the Portsmouth route can’t use the route for anything sensible or in any sort of comfort is tough I suppose.

JN114 · 16 Jan 2019

pompeyfan said:
I suppose someone was always going to lose it, just not nice when it’s you. Still at least the west will be able to enjoy sensibly configured 158s as well as refurbished HSTs. The fact people on the Portsmouth route can’t use the route for anything sensible or in any sort of comfort is tough I suppose.

I can’t remember the last “comfortable” Portsmouth service I went on; they’re all so hopelessly overcrowded at all times of day the additional capacity - in whatever form - is welcome.

Rather a cramped, uncomfortable seat than no seat at all.

irish_rail · 16 Jan 2019

pompeyfan said:
I suppose someone was always going to lose it, just not nice when it’s you. Still at least the west will be able to enjoy sensibly configured 158s as well as refurbished HSTs. The fact people on the Portsmouth route can’t use the route for anything sensible or in any sort of comfort is tough I suppose.

Well don't worry, the people of the southwest, for example in Plymouth will be enjoying the "comfort" of IET seating going forward so don't be feeling too sorry for yourselves in pompey.

GWR Class 165/166 Turbo Diagrams

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