• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Competition heats up between Transdev and Connexions

Status
Not open for further replies.

Stan Drews

Established Member
Joined
5 Jun 2013
Messages
1,576
But if we are to believe a communication delivered to Greenfields today the local Councillor recently met with both the Harrogate Bus Company and Connexions to try and improve services in the Hookstone area. 'The Harrogate Bus Company, for the third time, flatly refused to help'
So much for the local operator!

Is it safe to assume the ‘help’ they were looking for was that either of these operators ran a loss making service, rather than the relevant local authority using their existing powers to financially support a socially necessary services?

I’m also a little surprised that you have even contemplated believing a communication from a politician! :D:D
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Swimbar

Member
Joined
31 Jan 2018
Messages
377
Location
Wetherby
I am more likely to believe a communication from a politician than tweets from AH at Transdev the Harrogate Electric Bus Fiasco springs to mind.
 

Andyh82

Established Member
Joined
19 May 2014
Messages
3,527
Nobody said the councillor wasn’t believable. It’s just that he was probably asking for something that isn’t commercially viable.
 

Stan Drews

Established Member
Joined
5 Jun 2013
Messages
1,576
Have Connexions ‘flatly refused to help’ too, or can we expect an early reintroduction of their X4 service, withdrawn late last year?
 

SCH117X

Established Member
Joined
27 Nov 2015
Messages
1,557
Perhaps being a local operator in Harrogate has some advantages ...like a local depot!
Connexions depot is at Tockwith unless they have taken a lease on a site that no one knows about, presumably in Knaresborough given where the buses were heading hence my query - Abbots use to use a yard by the railway while Transdev have at times used a site previously used by York Pullman on Manse Lane. Re the issue of Greenfields I find it baffling both operators run so many services along the Knaresborough Road when the whole area to the south has pretty obvious bus route along it which is only served irregularly by the Little Explorer - the lack of custom for the X1 I saw yesterday does make me think Connexions would be better diverting half of their X1s to serve that area and they could market it as connecting a further retail park.
 

Swimbar

Member
Joined
31 Jan 2018
Messages
377
Location
Wetherby
'maintenance issues mean that Connexions has had to reduce its fleet so cannot extend its Wedderburn Service'
I find it hard to believe that either a 1A, 1B, 1C or X1 couldn't be diverted via Hookstone and Calcutt once an hour to provide a better service.
 

96tommy

Member
Joined
18 May 2010
Messages
1,060
Location
London
I am more likely to believe a communication from a politician than tweets from AH at Transdev the Harrogate Electric Bus Fiasco springs to mind.

Talking of which I wonder how the amazing generator is doing at Harrogate bus station? Is it still there not passed through the town since November.
 

Andyh82

Established Member
Joined
19 May 2014
Messages
3,527
Talking of which I wonder how the amazing generator is doing at Harrogate bus station? Is it still there not passed through the town since November.
This is getting boring now. The reasons for the generator were explained at the time and unless they are now in the electricity business as well as the bus business is hardly their fault.

Maybe Transdev should paint every bus the same plain colour, do nothing special and just manage decline like many other operators.
 

Bungle965

Established Member
Associate Staff
Buses & Coaches
Joined
2 Jul 2014
Messages
2,845
Location
Blackley and Broughton/ Walsall South
To be fair to Transdev the issue with the electricity appears to be very much out of their control, unless they have like the previous poster said, moved into the electricity business.
How is the reliability of the electric buses now doing, hopefully it has improved somewhat from when they first started? I almost ended up taking shares out in the local breakdown company the amount of times they were getting called out to drag one back to the depot.
Sam
 

SCH117X

Established Member
Joined
27 Nov 2015
Messages
1,557
'maintenance issues mean that Connexions has had to reduce its fleet so cannot extend its Wedderburn Service'
I find it hard to believe that either a 1A, 1B, 1C or X1 couldn't be diverted via Hookstone and Calcutt once an hour to provide a better service.
Maintenance issues? - that's a new one re the reductions in services.

The Wedderburn service in the past was worked by Blazefield using normal town, mid sized, buses (route 4 which use to run through to Bilton on what is now part of the 2B) and Connexions have worked it at times with full sized buses so there does not seem to be specific reason for using a small Solo on it as they normally did. The cut in service was more reasonably simply down to it being not commercially viable and NYCC will not fund it having chopped it previously as being unsustainable even with assistance. If was commercially viable as a fill-in duty then Connexions could readily work with a bus between school duties as they on weekdays with the Cardale Park and Duchy services - presumably if they loose a stack of school contracts those services may well also get axed.

Cannot see either operator commercially running a service via Calcutt; the bigger catchment and quicker route would be to run a service from Knaresborough along the Route1 route to Forest Lane Head then down Forest Lane and along Hookstone Chase. The problem with Hookstone Chase is the traffic lights with Wetherby Road from traffic backs up significantly in both directions and in the past when their was a regular service they were blamed for its unreliability; their use to be a half hourly local service (9) together with a hourly village route via Calcutt to either Ripon (56) or Boroughbridge (57) - the latter got increased to half hourly usually through additional services doing a loop through the villages close to Knaresborough (58) rather doing the full 56 or 57 route with the local service being withdrawn. When the 56/57/58 were cut in number I was expecting that the local service would return but it never has. As aside there was also one year when their was a Sunday service as a 36 (pre Geminis) was run that way to terminate at Knaresborough.

The alternate would be to divert off Hookstone Chase to pick up part of the Wedderburn route to regain Knaresborough Road, something similar to what Connexions have done in the past when the normal route has not been available.

The Volvo Electrics seem to be settling down (all are now named after local primary schools) although the two retained Versas at Starbeck, usually along with B7RLEs, seem be in use daily on local services; the Pateley Bridge service is often also a B7RLE or the sole retained B10BLE rather than an Electric Solo - the B10BLE typically working the short peak am 2B and the 0830 24. The use of B7RLEs on these service means an increased use of non-36 Geminis and the ex-National Express Presidents on Route1 and Leeds via Wetherby (7) services.
 

96tommy

Member
Joined
18 May 2010
Messages
1,060
Location
London
Talking of maintenance issues are Cityzap suffering again? Just noted a Versa go past on the route.
 

SCH117X

Established Member
Joined
27 Nov 2015
Messages
1,557
One appeared today also.
Sam
Could be due to the Cityzap Geminis being due for MOTs shortly ( three were registered in Feb 2004 and the other two in Mar 2004) and a couple being pulled for pre MOT overhaul. The normal replacements would be the PoN Geminis at Harrogate but due to the s l o w charging provided by the temporary generator of the electrics at Harrogate the need to use B7RLEs on the local services mean the PoN Geminis are needed for the Route 1 and 7 services.
 

APT618S

Member
Joined
7 Dec 2018
Messages
430
The normal replacements would be the PoN Geminis at Harrogate but due to the s l o w charging provided by the temporary generator of the electrics at Harrogate the need to use B7RLEs on the local services mean the PoN Geminis are needed for the Route 1 and 7 services.
On Thrs this week (17/01/19) I managed to ride on two of the second hand V-reg Presidents 2719 (V34MOA) & 2720 (V69MOA) which were on the 1's. This may also point to a vehicle shortage.
 

Cesarcollie

Member
Joined
5 Jun 2016
Messages
538
Could be due to the Cityzap Geminis being due for MOTs shortly ( three were registered in Feb 2004 and the other two in Mar 2004) and a couple being pulled for pre MOT overhaul. The normal replacements would be the PoN Geminis at Harrogate but due to the s l o w charging provided by the temporary generator of the electrics at Harrogate the need to use B7RLEs on the local services mean the PoN Geminis are needed for the Route 1 and 7 services.

It would be very unusual for any large company to leave all the MOTs to the anniversary. Normally they are spread over the year to avoid a peak - in some situations that can result in a bus being MOT’d when only a month or two old. No company wants every bus from a batch with MOT due at the same time.
 

Andyh82

Established Member
Joined
19 May 2014
Messages
3,527
Talking of maintenance issues are Cityzap suffering again? Just noted a Versa go past on the route.

I know you are trying to whip up the idea that there is a major crisis, but this is very normal in the running of any bus company.

One bus is off for routine reasons, another is off for something unexpected. As they only have one spare that would produce an unusual vehicle.

Also remember a bus being off the road isn’t always a maintenance issue, it could be due to vanadalism or a passenger may have soiled the vehicle. That’s before you factor in that there could have been some extreme late running occurring meaning they’d swapped another bus in to ensure the next journey departs on time.
 

SCH117X

Established Member
Joined
27 Nov 2015
Messages
1,557
On Thrs this week (17/01/19) I managed to ride on two of the second hand V-reg Presidents 2719 (V34MOA) & 2720 (V69MOA) which were on the 1's. This may also point to a vehicle shortage.
The Presidents have been a pretty common feature of the 1's ever since Starbecks allocation of B10BLEs were reduced in a number and equally it was quite common to find a spare Versa on the 1's when Starbeck had 8. As I posted earlier with the slow charging provided by the temporary generator it is currently necessary to use the two remaining Versas along with B7RLEs on the "Harrogate Electric" services so causing further use of Presidents and Geminis on the 1's and 7. The two electric Solos seem to be a bit of mystery, one was a 2B on Friday and today the 24 which they are supposed to be working was in the hands of the sole remaining non-school fleet B10BLE.
 

96tommy

Member
Joined
18 May 2010
Messages
1,060
Location
London
I know you are trying to whip up the idea that there is a major crisis, but this is very normal in the running of any bus company.

I'm not as anti-transdev as many people make me out to be. I don't think they are the be all and end all though as most people seem to see them and I think people are finally starting to see this a little bit. I was purely just noting that a Versa was out on the route.
 

Swimbar

Member
Joined
31 Jan 2018
Messages
377
Location
Wetherby
Obviously an ongoing issue because there is a Versa on CityZap this afternoon. It seems surprising that the only 'spare' vehicle they have at York is an ex Harrogate Versa.
 

Stan Drews

Established Member
Joined
5 Jun 2013
Messages
1,576
Obviously an ongoing issue because there is a Versa on CityZap this afternoon. It seems surprising that the only 'spare' vehicle they have at York is an ex Harrogate Versa.

The spare DD is clearly unavailable (quite possibly due to MoTs, as others have suggested), so as Versa's are now the main allocation at York, it isn't really that surprising.
 

Swimbar

Member
Joined
31 Jan 2018
Messages
377
Location
Wetherby
I thought there was a spare 'Pride of the North' B9TL at Malton for use at York as required? Presumably Coastline Winter Timetable reduces the PVR at Malton?
 

Andyh82

Established Member
Joined
19 May 2014
Messages
3,527
I thought there was a spare 'Pride of the North' B9TL at Malton for use at York as required? Presumably Coastline Winter Timetable reduces the PVR at Malton?
They don’t have seasonal timetables on Coastliner anymore, it’s the same at Malton all year round.
 

SCH117X

Established Member
Joined
27 Nov 2015
Messages
1,557
Isn't there a single summer service to Bridlington? I don't know how it affects the PVR.
That was worked by York running via the Malton bypass and Scarborough with the fleet boosted by the two PoN Geminis 2763/2764 currently at Starbeck
 

SCH117X

Established Member
Joined
27 Nov 2015
Messages
1,557
Connexions announce fare increases with numerous digs at Transdev in the statement, which given the price of Transdevs fares hardly stands up - old habits die hard it seems when Mr Temple is involved.

http://www.connexionsbuses.com/uncategorized/fare-revision-from-4th-february/

Fare revision from 4th February
Posted on January 26, 2019

We are sorry to announce that our fares are having to increase from 4th February.

Our School services will not increase this academic year, however, nor will the 64 (as these fares are set by First).

Cost increases and a pay rise for our hard working and loyal staff have led to this – as a family owned company we have to balance our books as we don’t have parent companies that can help out when we have a shortfall.

We have kept the increases to a minimum and will still remain the best value in Harrogate, as we realise that some customers prefer good decent old fashioned value to add-ons which add cost.

Going Green and White helps support local business – there are very few smaller independent Bus companies left in this country as the large Plcs and foreign owned multinationals squeeze them out.

We work in partnership with those who appreciate how we can help them -as shown by the 64 service in Leeds – this has helped keep a service running that may have otherwise had to cease and kept customers able to use the great value tickets that First offer throughout West Yorkshire.

Thank you for your ongoing support and thank you for being our customers.
 

Deerfold

Veteran Member
Joined
26 Nov 2009
Messages
12,620
Location
Yorkshire

SCH117X

Established Member
Joined
27 Nov 2015
Messages
1,557
It would be useful to give people some clue as to the scale of the rises - especially if they like people to pay exact fares when they can.
Well they do imply they are cheaper than Transdev, despite their meaningless claim as a result that Transdev can subsidise themselves, so that may give some passengers a clue.
 

TheGrandWazoo

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
20,028
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
Well they do imply they are cheaper than Transdev, despite their meaningless claim as a result that Transdev can subsidise themselves, so that may give some passengers a clue.
Don't think they imply it "We have kept the increases to a minimum and will still remain the best value in Harrogate"

To be fair, I'm sure that everyone (whether a Transdev fan or a Hornsby hater) understands that it's a hard operating environment and that certain costs keep on increasing. Don't even think it's that poor that they don't specify how much they're going up by - sometimes mentioned by other firms but not always.

However, is there really any need for these barbed comments on a company announcement?
 

johntea

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2010
Messages
2,596
Harrogate to Starbeck at a cost of £2.70 return on Transdev is a bit rich in my opinion, the problem being they seem to charge that fare no matter where you're going to on Knaresborough Road! Surely going to the hospital for example should be cheaper than going to Starbeck crossing...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top