SWR new services

pompeyfan · 16 Jan 2019

embers25 said:
This runs directly behind the 0615 from Pompey which rather interestingly (and I'm guessing may be of great happiness to Infobleep) has had a Surbiton stop added which will not be popular with longer distance commuters. That being said there is now a 0512 fast from Pompey so win some lose some!

Years ago the 0615 was a headline train. It now connects with the first FastCat over from the island. It used to have a super fast calling pattern and staff are banned from traveling on it for non railway related business. Currently it is standing room only from Havant, and wedged by Guildford. To run a relief train right behind is good thinking, to make the 0615 call at Surbiton is ridiculous.

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pompeyfan · 16 Jan 2019

Also appears that all services now call at Godalming. Not really a surprise, but is a disappointment.

HamworthyGoods · 16 Jan 2019

pompeyfan said:
Years ago the 0615 was a headline train. It now connects with the first FastCat over from the island. It used to have a super fast calling pattern and staff are banned from traveling on it for non railway related business. Currently it is standing room only from Havant, and wedged by Guildford. To run a relief train right behind is good thinking, to make the 0615 call at Surbiton is ridiculous.

The Surbiton call in 1P16 is a data error in the timetable process and will be disappearing again in due course....

DelW · 16 Jan 2019

pompeyfan said:
Also appears that all services now call at Godalming. Not really a surprise, but is a disappointment.

Not if you live there

pompeyfan · 16 Jan 2019

DelW said:
Not if you live there

That is very true, but outside the peaks I personally don’t think the demand there is worthy of 4 tph.

DelW · 16 Jan 2019

pompeyfan said:
That is very true, but outside the peaks I personally don’t think the demand there is worthy of 4 tph.

Godalming has a bigger population than either Haslemere or Petersfield, which have had 4tph for quite a few years now (I'm not sure when non-stop Guildford - Havant services ended), so I would expect the passenger levels to be at least similar. It's also possible some passengers living between the two stations might switch from Farncombe, which doesn't get the additional stops.

(Edit: Petersfield has only had 3tph, mea culpa)

The big recent improvement was 2tph on Sundays, the 1tph was really poor especially as it connected very badly with the (then) 1tph Reading - Gatwick services at Guildford (frequently > 50 minute connection times).

swt_passenger · 16 Jan 2019

pompeyfan said:
It’s good from an operational point of view I suppose that diesel units aren’t being wasted, but a shame I won’t be able to dabble any more on them. The first rounder is currently the 0614 from Totton - Romsey after reversing in Totton Yard. I assume this unit will run empty from Salisbury but continue its current workings?

Yes it does, with a reversal at Southampton. I don’t see why it’s so important to start it from Totton, although it maybe provides for another early departure towards Southampton before the regular through services from the west of Totton get going...

pompeyfan · 16 Jan 2019

It’s usually quite busy with many passengers joining at Torton, Redbridge and Millbrook, then changing into the 0630 from Southampton central.

SWT_USER · 16 Jan 2019

GW43125 said:
There have been a few minor changes on the Windsor side, there are now two Windsor-Waterloo via Hounslow in the morning peak, in the evening peak the existing 17:05 Farnham is re-timed to 16:54, and runs via Hounslow (calling Hounslow only), allowing a new 17:05 Reading.

Interesting, thanks for that. Disappointed the Windsor semi fast via the Hounslow loop isn't all day from a selfish point of view.

Do you know what the rationale is for stopping the 16.54 at Hounslow rather than Brentford? (Brentford being the busiest station on the loop IIRC)

Wychwood93 · 16 Jan 2019

DelW said:
Godalming has a bigger population than either Haslemere or Petersfield, which have had 4tph for quite a few years now (I'm not sure when non-stop Guildford - Havant services ended), so I would expect the passenger levels to be at least similar. It's also possible some passengers living between the two stations might switch from Farncombe, which doesn't get the additional stops.

(Edit: Petersfield has only had 3tph, mea culpa)

The big recent improvement was 2tph on Sundays, the 1tph was really poor especially as it connected very badly with the (then) 1tph Reading - Gatwick services at Guildford (frequently > 50 minute connection times).

Rail passenger usage figures for 2017/18 are: Petersfield 1.406 million (10,933 interchange), Haslemere 1.777 million (0.104 million interchange) and 1.381 million for Godalming. What would be perhaps more interesting, impossible without barriers, is how many travelled (or went through the barriers) at what time of the day.

GW43125 · 16 Jan 2019

SWT_USER said:
Interesting, thanks for that. Disappointed the Windsor semi fast via the Hounslow loop isn't all day from a selfish point of view.

Do you know what the rationale is for stopping the 16.54 at Hounslow rather than Brentford? (Brentford being the busiest station on the loop IIRC)

I believe the franchise agreement mandates Hounslow as a stop on any service via the Hounslow loop, and judging from the timings there isn't time to call at Brentford too.
On the Reading line, we'd quite like our 4tph we were promised (some of our trains are wedged). I believe the reason for dropping most of the Windsor via Hounslow services was to allow the 2tph Weybridge-Waterloo via Hounslow to continue rather than splitting the service, something which was severely contested (including by myself) as it stuffed up a lot of school journeys.

DelW · 17 Jan 2019

Wychwood93 said:
Rail passenger usage figures for 2017/18 are: Petersfield 1.406 million (10,933 interchange), Haslemere 1.777 million (0.104 million interchange) and 1.381 million for Godalming. What would be perhaps more interesting, impossible without barriers, is how many travelled (or went through the barriers) at what time of the day.

Thanks, it will be interesting to see whether the extra Godalming services do increase usage, possibly at the expense of Farncombe. Any such increase would be mainly off-peak anyway, as most peaktime trains stop already.

Your post prompted me to find those figures for myself, initially to see how Farncombe compared (0.862 million, = 38.4% of the combined GOD + FNC total of 2.243m). All the stations on the Portsmouth Direct except Rowlands Castle showed 2017/18 numbers being level with or declining from 2016/17 numbers. There seems to be a north-south split, Rowlands Castle up, Liss and Liphook roughly level, declines everywhere north of there mostly by around 3% - 4%. I probably shouldn't read too much into one year's figures, but they do suggest SWR have to do more just to get back to SWT's level of business.

nw1 · 17 Jan 2019

SWT_USER said:
Interesting, thanks for that. Disappointed the Windsor semi fast via the Hounslow loop isn't all day from a selfish point of view.

Do you know what the rationale is for stopping the 16.54 at Hounslow rather than Brentford? (Brentford being the busiest station on the loop IIRC)

Noticed that there is a 'fast Hounslow' every half hour from 1654 to 1854, _except_ 1724. The xx54 all go to Farnham but the 1824 goes to Windsor. Maybe some of these exist already; bit out of touch on what goes on that way. But any reason for there not being a 1724 to Windsor?

TEW · 17 Jan 2019

The 1754 Farnham already exists. It was introduced a few years ago when the 1805 Farnham was diverted to Reading instead.

cle · 17 Jan 2019

nickw1 said:
Noticed that there is a 'fast Hounslow' every half hour from 1654 to 1854, _except_ 1724. The xx54 all go to Farnham but the 1824 goes to Windsor. Maybe some of these exist already; bit out of touch on what goes on that way. But any reason for there not being a 1724 to Windsor?

Are there any actually new services on the Windsor lines, or just re-allocated/displaced Weybridge trains? What does the hourly pattern look like via Richmond and via Hounslow? Always seems so busy, even in the off and counter peaks.

SevenEightNine · 17 Jan 2019

cle said:
Are there any actually new services on the Windsor lines, or just re-allocated/displaced Weybridge trains? What does the hourly pattern look like via Richmond and via Hounslow? Always seems so busy, even in the off and counter peaks.

These are new services, as far as I'm aware all Weybridge via Hounslow services will remain intact.

The rough patterns are as follows:

Morning peak towards Waterloo
• 4tph from Reading via Richmond
• 2tph from Farnham via Richmond
• 2tph from Windsor via Richmond
• 2tph from Kingston Loop via Richmond
• 2tph from Shepperton (or Kingston?) via Richmond
• 2tph from Weybridge via Hounslow
• 2tph clockwise Hounslow Loop
(The anti-clockwise Hounslow Loop services don't start until later in the morning)

Evening peak out of Waterloo
• 4tph to Reading/Farnham via Richmond
• 2tph to Windsor via Richmond
• 2tph to Kingston Loop via Richmond
• 2tph to Shepperton/Kingston via Richmond
• 2tph clockwise Hounslow Loop
• 2tph anticlockwise Hounslow Loop
• 2tph to Weybridge via Hounslow
Plus the 1824 Waterloo to Farnham via Hounslow mentioned above, which leaves just behind a Weybridge and is timed to overtake it around Putney/Barnes. This will be true of the new Farnham/Windsor via Hounslow "fasts" too.

At most other times
• 2tph to/from Reading via Richmond
• 2tph to/from Windsor via Richmond
• 2tph to/from Kingston Loop via Richmond
• 2tph clockwise Hounslow Loop
• 2tph anti-clockwise Hounslow Loop
• 2tph to/from Weybridge via Hounslow,
with a few additions in the counter-peak direction. At the moment, the Hounslow Loop service ends around 10pm I believe, there is 2tph through Hounslow after that time.

cle · 17 Jan 2019

Cool, thanks for writing that all out. I understood 4tph to Reading would be all day, and also with 4tph to Windsor.

Perhaps the latter is where I was thinking about the Weybridge becoming a shuttle again, and might be in the future.

Muzer · 17 Jan 2019

HamworthyGoods said:
Also new is 1P90 06.40 Havant to Waterloo, semi-fast via Guildford.
http://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/W30438/2019-05-22

Evening Bournemouth additional trains have been mentioned there is a morning additional too in the form of a 1B88 06.28 Southampton Airport to Waterloo
http://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/W30377/2019-05-22

Also the current 07.38 Southampton Central to Waterloo has been sped-up and now starts back from Bournemouth
http://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/W31708/2019-05-22

!!! I'm absolutely thrilled with that last change as I commute from Basingstoke around that time.

However, I AM curious about its likely formation. It's currently a single 444. Do we know what's likely to happen to it?

Besides that I'm curious as to where the released 159s will go. I've noticed that the WoEs drop off in length sooner in the morning shoulder peak and earlier in the evening too than most other services. Do the logistics work for strengthening, say, the 0829 from BSK (currently 6 coaches) and the 1850 from Waterloo (which IIRC is also 6 coaches)?

Also, purely from an enthusiast's perspective, are we expecting the 442 scheduled diagrams to entirely be on the Pompey Direct services or might they be making the odd foray (whether peak time or maybe late night) towards Basingstoke and Southampton?

swt_passenger · 17 Jan 2019

cle said:
Cool, thanks for writing that all out. I understood 4tph to Reading would be all day, and also with 4tph to Windsor.

Perhaps the latter is where I was thinking about the Weybridge becoming a shuttle again, and might be in the future.

The Weybridge shuttle ending, and the intended 4 tph Windsor all day, were intended parts of the Dec 2018 timetable specified by DFT and shown in the ITT for when First took over, but there was then another consultation and people complained so it was all reworked.

However the last SWR formal statement about Reading and Windsor was here:
https://www.southwesternrailway.com.../reading-windsor-and-suburban-lines.pdf?la=en
...and it explained that Weybridge would keep through services, preventing 4 tph Windsor all day but it would still include 4 tph Windsor in the peaks.

I think it’s pretty clear May 2019 isn’t the final timetable by any means.

swt_passenger · 17 Jan 2019

Muzer said:
Also, purely from an enthusiast's perspective, are we expecting the 442 scheduled diagrams to entirely be on the Pompey Direct services or might they be making the odd foray (whether peak time or maybe late night) towards Basingstoke and Southampton?

It’s as you suggest - there will be a couple of mainline moves to/from Bournemouth (see below it’s as far as Poole) to get some units to the depot, but the normal pattern is Portsmouth Direct only. Most stabling will be at Fratton. This has been mentioned in a couple of earlier threads regarding the 442s.

Muzer · 17 Jan 2019

swt_passenger said:
It’s as you suggest - there will be a couple of mainline moves to/from Bournemouth to get some units to the depot, but the normal pattern is Portsmouth Direct only. Most stabling will be at Fratton. This has been mentioned in a couple of earlier threads regarding the 442s.

Apologies, but to clarify, would these mainline moves be ECS basically when required for the maintenance schedule (as with the 455s etc.) or would there be a regularly scheduled passenger diagram at the start/end of the day, for instance?

swt_passenger · 17 Jan 2019

Muzer said:
Apologies, but to clarify, would these mainline moves be ECS basically when required for the maintenance schedule (as with the 455s etc.) or would there be a regularly scheduled passenger diagram at the start/end of the day, for instance?

It’s been said these moves would be in passenger service. But only as far as Bournemouth, (but see next post) and only at start or end of the day’s service.

HamworthyGoods · 17 Jan 2019

Muzer said:
!!! I'm absolutely thrilled with that last change as I commute from Basingstoke around that time.

However, I AM curious about its likely formation. It's currently a single 444. Do we know what's likely to happen to it?

Besides that I'm curious as to where the released 159s will go. I've noticed that the WoEs drop off in length sooner in the morning shoulder peak and earlier in the evening too than most other services. Do the logistics work for strengthening, say, the 0829 from BSK (currently 6 coaches) and the 1850 from Waterloo (which IIRC is also 6 coaches)?

Also, purely from an enthusiast's perspective, are we expecting the 442 scheduled diagrams to entirely be on the Pompey Direct services or might they be making the odd foray (whether peak time or maybe late night) towards Basingstoke and Southampton?

It is anticipated the 18.48 and 21.05 Waterloo to Poole trains will be the Bournemouth bound 442s on weekdays.

In the morning it’ll be the 05.45 ex Poole and the 06.51 from Southampton Parkway.

Sundays it’s the 21.05 Waterloo to Poole and the new 18.18 Poole to Waterloo to allow swapover of the Pompey line units.

irfquake123 · 18 Jan 2019

GW43125 said:
There have been a few minor changes on the Windsor side, there are now two Windsor-Waterloo via Hounslow in the morning peak, in the evening peak the existing 17:05 Farnham is re-timed to 16:54, and runs via Hounslow (calling Hounslow only), allowing a new 17:05 Reading.

Hi. The new Windsor - Waterloo (via hounslow) services - where can I see details of those?

swt_passenger · 18 Jan 2019

irfquake123 said:
Hi. The new Windsor - Waterloo (via hounslow) services - where can I see details of those?

Members of the public posting here (such as myself) are generally using one of the third party train running info websites such as realtimetrains, or opentraintimes. They’ll allow you to check trains for dates after 20 May. Information should be considered ‘subject to final confirmation’ for a few weeks yet. Here’s a query set up for all passenger services at Windsor Riverside for 24 hours from 0200 on 20 May:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...20/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=pax-calls&order=wtt

I can only find one Windsor service via Hounslow each way though. I think some of the above discussion is about the eventual full timetable, not the May situation.

irfquake123 · 18 Jan 2019

swt_passenger said:
Members of the public posting here (such as myself) are generally using one of the third party train running info websites such as realtimetrains, or opentraintimes. They’ll allow you to check trains for dates after 20 May. Information should be considered ‘subject to final confirmation’ for a few weeks yet. Here’s a query set up for all passenger services at Windsor Riverside for 24 hours from 0200 on 20 May:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...20/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=pax-calls&order=wtt

I can only find one Windsor service via Hounslow each way though. I think some of the above discussion is about the eventual full timetable, not the May situation.

Thanks for this, very useful

GW43125 · 18 Jan 2019

swt_passenger said:
I can only find one Windsor service via Hounslow each way though.

You're entirely correct, I've re-read the email and there's only one through Windsor each way, the other two I was thinking of run empty to Hounslow then in service to Waterloo.
1R92: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W30439/2019/06/20/advanced
1R94: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W30440/2019/06/20/advanced

the two Windsors are:
1U90 up: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W30445/2019/06/20/advanced
1U91 down: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W30446/2019/06/20/advanced

hotel_mode · 18 Jan 2019

Good to see some of the improvements coming in.

Does anybody know if/when the planned changes to the SWML between Woking and Basingstoke take effect? December change or later?

traji00 · 19 Jan 2019

GW43125 said:
There have been a few minor changes on the Windsor side, there are now two Windsor-Waterloo via Hounslow in the morning peak, in the evening peak the existing 17:05 Farnham is re-timed to 16:54, and runs via Hounslow (calling Hounslow only), allowing a new 17:05 Reading.

A 17:05 Reading will be very well received, since the 16:50/17:20 departures are usually full & standing by Clapham. (Although it probably doesn't help that these services are worked by 450's)

Thumper1127 · 19 Jan 2019

pompeyfan said:
Also appears that all services now call at Godalming. Not really a surprise, but is a disappointment.

A Dft requirement I believe

SWR new services

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