Stuttgart area LHCS

cactustwirly · 18 Jan 2019

Does anyone know what services around Stuttgart are still operated by n-Wagens?

Also does anyone have any suggestions for interesting journeys around Stuttgart?

Thanks in advance

RailUK Forums

JonathanP · 18 Jan 2019

I'm not sure about the n-wagens. The state of Baden-Württemburg is the leading proponent of the strategy of replacing high capacity Deutsche Bahn loco hauled stock with new state-owned lower capacity EMUs and then trumpeting about how much money they saved by doing so

, so a lot of regional trains are going over to units or being modernised through stock cascades.

In Stuttgart, for novelty value you can travel on the only rack-fitted tram in Germany. There's also a charming funicular with classic wooden cabins, also part of the urban transport system so no extra fees.
The route over the Geislinger Steige towards Ulm is specactular, travel on it in a loco hauled EC/IC train whilst you can before the new High Speed Line opens.
There are a few heritage operations in the area, and also a tram museum with operational heritage stock, for the purpose of which part of the tram network is dual gauge. This would all be summer only though.

I live on the other side of Germany so I wouldn't claim to know Stuttgart very well, others may have more suggestions.

30907 · 18 Jan 2019

There is a 9 minute video on YouTube with details. Most but not quite all the times appear on-screen, so it doesn't matter if you can't follow the German commentary. Particularly note the cl 218 diagram on the Danube Valley line Ulm-Donaueschingen, which is do-able on a Laenderticket.
It's linked by NWagenFan from https://community.bahn.de/questions/1853417-fahren-n-wagen-2019
Or Google n-wagen 2019.

In Stuttgart itself there's a Liliputbahn in the Killesberg park West of the city, and a tram museum in Bad Cannstatt.

urpert · 18 Jan 2019

The U-Bahn is pretty good fun too. It gives you some idea of what Brussels or Antwerp might have been like if they’d actually completed all of the Pre-metro plans.

bspahh · 18 Jan 2019

JonathanP said:
The route over the Geislinger Steige towards Ulm is specactular, travel on it in a loco hauled EC/IC train whilst you can before the new High Speed Line opens.

I had a nice ride along there with a big open window, and a warm summers evening last year.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/best-railway-moments-of-2018.175824/#post-3804652

simple simon · 18 Jan 2019

Hello, this may be useful...

Although when on railway style right of way the signalling is traditional railway colour lights, when in street mode they use white dot / white bar signals.

For an interesting ride... Take the U5 or U6 from Charlottenburg in the city centre. Sit behind the driver (if you can) and watch the speedometer with the fluctuating needle on the dial which shows the maximum speed for the section of line, etc.

By the next stop (Olgaeck) you will be in open air. This stop is where the U15 diverges but for this experience stay on the U5 / U6. This is a very busy traffic junction and the light rail must slot in with everyone else, there at this junction the signal includes a countdown timer to encourage the LRV to be ready to depart asap when it receives a go signal.

In the image below the signal for the U15 is on the left and U5/U6 on the right

The A tells the driver that their request for a turn in the traffic signal phasing has been accepted.
The white bar is 'stop'
T04 is part of the 10 second coundown timer
The arrow shows the direction the points are set.

The journey away from the city centre on the U5 U6 includes some street tramway - basically there was not enough space for two separate traffic lanes per direction of travel and two segregated rail lines. To help improve safety there are traffic signals which stop the street traffic where the LRV joins the traffic lanes. I've seen it happen that in heavy evening rush hour traffic the queues mean that the LRV is delayed in the congestion.

h

more to come... btw: in case anyone is wondering about copyright, I took these pics and they are online at my website citytransport.info

87015 · 18 Jan 2019

The remaining n-wagen are largely (and somewhat oddly) operated with 147s on the Ludwigsburg side.

simple simon · 18 Jan 2019

Stay on as far as Degerloch (where you will be underground). On the way to here you will pass through the Weinsteige tunnels which were built with viewing portals on the right when the light rail replaced the street tramway.

You might see this tactile map.... its for blind people. The concept is great but the last time I was there it had not been updated to reflect some route changes so was very much out of date.

At Degerloch you can change to the rack and pinion tramline which is mostly alongside the side of the road. There is a passing point at Weilandshohe. At the end station (Marienplatz) you can change to one of the three routes that will take several stations to Sudheimerplatz where the funicular railway can be found. Again, part of the route will be travelling as a street tramway.

more...

simple simon · 18 Jan 2019

To the north of the city centre both tracks at Pragsattel have platforms on both sides.

simple simon · 18 Jan 2019

Nearby are also some other features of note.

These views showing the fully tensioned railway style overhead comes from the Pragfriedhof stop, which is on line U15. The red X identify two of the tensioning units. Yes, in the urban street scene! The second image shows the unit close to the building on the left.

more...

simple simon · 18 Jan 2019

final few ideas... please note that the photos are about a decade old and since then there have been some major works, its possible that some stops are served by different route numbers - especially the location seen here which some maps show as being on the U12 rather than the U15.

This is the Mittnachtstrasse stop (strasse should have the funny German symbol for double ss which I cant add here)

What they did was to make the stops accessible by both depressing the road surface and installing a slightly raised platform. But at this location the road is closed to rubber-tyred traffic... even buses!!!

btw, why three tracks? Stuttgart used wisdom that is sadly lacking here in the UK. They slowly rebuilt their metre gauge tram system for a standard gauge light rail system and as each section was rebuilt they restored the trams until enough of the route was ready and then converted it to standard gauge. Here in the UK we just replaced everything with diesel buses.

Also, if you stay at the InterCity hotel your room card includes free travel in Stuttgart and the trolleybuses in nearby Esslingen. Actually, a few of these are duo-buses which travel in diesel mode when away from the wires whilst the most modern versions are battery-trolleybuses; they use in-motion charging to top up their batteries whilst running as trolleybuses and then switch to battery mode for roads that do not have overhead wires. This way the benefits of electric traction can be extended to more areas of the city without having enough overhead wiring for every last centimetre of road served. I wish we did this too, here in the UK!

Spoorslag '70 · 19 Jan 2019

The DB Regio Baden-Württemberg website has the train compositions for their trains. The lists are separated by timetable number and should be pretty much self-explanatory.

superjohn · 19 Jan 2019

I was there just yesterday. There were still some n-wagen around albeit very much in a minority among all the dostos and units. You can find them from the link Spoorslag posted above or grab a rover ticket and just turn up at hbf and wait. The frequency of local services means it won’t be long before one turns up.

I concur with others that a trip to Ulm or beyond is highly recommended. The few IC services will be hauled by class 218’s from Stuttgart while the local RE services to Lindau change from electric to diesel (218 or 245) at Ulm.

I also find Stuttgart hbf is a great place just to sit and watch trains for a while. Huge variety, constant movements and just the right size to be able to see everything. In my opinion the best German station in that respect, Frankfurt and Munich are too big while Hamburg and esp.Berlin are too complex in layout, you’ll always miss something. Place yourself at the end of one of the longer platforms and watch it all go by!

Wrap up warm if you’re going at this time of year though.

Spoorslag '70 · 19 Jan 2019

Just a quick addition: Come June this year, most (if not all) regional LHCS around Stuttgart will be replaced by units (Talent 2&Flirt 3). I.e. that you should see to do it in the next couple of months to have fun with proper trains down there.

Mag_seven · 19 Jan 2019

simple simon said:
strasse should have the funny German symbol for double ss which I cant add here

Here you go:

Straße

30907 · 19 Jan 2019

Spoorslag '70 said:
The DB Regio Baden-Württemberg website has the train compositions for their trains. The lists are separated by timetable number and should be pretty much self-explanatory.

Thanks for the link, which I struggled to locate from the homepage. It shows rather more n-wagen formations than the video.

rg177 · 19 Jan 2019

It's sad to see that the region will become a haven of plastic soon enough, much like Mitteldeutschland (which is awash with Talent EMUs and basically nothing else).

I was there last week and it's probably the most interesting in terms of stock variety available (although some looking in a sad state).

However the purchase of 147 locos relatively recently gives me faith that there'll still be some action in and out of Stuttgart.

Spoorslag '70 · 19 Jan 2019

Well, Mitteldeutschland has the Leipzig-Chemnitz semifasts (RE6), which are loco-hauled with corridor stock! (But everything else is pretty boring: Talent 2s on almost all work around Leipzig and some 1440s on the line through Freiberg)

rg177 · 19 Jan 2019

Spoorslag '70 said:
Well, Mitteldeutschland has the Leipzig-Chemnitz semifasts (RE6), which are loco-hauled with corridor stock! (But everything else is pretty boring: Talent 2s on almost all work around Leipzig and some 1440s on the line through Freiberg)

Ah yes the one exception being those! They are quite a fun run in the summer when you have a compartment to yourself and the window fully down!

But indeed bland otherwise to the extent that I found a 612 on the run from Jena to Gera to be fun!

cactustwirly · 20 Jan 2019

Does anyone know if there's other cities with n-wagen services?
Like Berlin etc?

Spoorslag '70 · 20 Jan 2019

cactustwirly said:
Does anyone know if there's other cities with n-wagen services?
Like Berlin etc?

Almost none - some services to/from Munich might have a "Wittenberger Steuerwagen" at one end and there is the semi-permanent use on RB48 (Bonn-Cologne-Wuppertal) services in NRW (times here). The "east" never really had them anyways and everywhere further north has got rid of them. Even the x-Wagen I grew up with are almost gone (bare some peak workings and services around Nürnberg).

D6700 · 20 Jan 2019

cactustwirly said:
Does anyone know if there's other cities with n-wagen services?
Like Berlin etc?

In case your interest happens to be non-dosto stock, as opposed to n-wagens specifically, Berlin to Hamburg IRE services are formed of single decker coaches, which include opening windows and compartments.

Nuremberg to Munich Regional Express trains via the direct high speed line use Intercity type coaches with Class 101 loco's, despite being regional trains - although these are air-con. These are to be replaced by double decker stock from Skoda, which is way overdue.

Alex trains out of Munich have an assortment of single decker stock, some with opening windows and compartments.

Hamburg to Westerland trains may also be of interest, although I'm not sure of their current configuration.

317666 · 20 Jan 2019

Just a quick note - unless it's very hot, forget about having the window down! Those familiar with travelling in Germany will know exactly what I mean...

D6700 · 20 Jan 2019

317666 said:
Just a quick note - unless it's very hot, forget about having the window down! Those familiar with travelling in Germany will know exactly what I mean...

"The Window Police"

Please Explain · 21 Jan 2019

D6700 said:
"The Window Police"

"Deutsche Fensterpolizei!" :lol:

Was down there a couple of weeks back and made use of the Baden ticket with youth discount at €21 it really is an absolute bargain, first class can be had for only €32 and you can enjoy those nice N-wagen compos. PLUS, it's even valid on IC's and IC2's between Stuttgart und Singen. I enjoyed a run down there on most comfortable Swiss EC stock behind a singing Taurus, and admired the scenery in a snowy winter-wunderland! :smile:

The taurus is exchanged for an SBB RE6/6 there at Singen before continuing onto Zürich..
I know the new IC2' dosto stock has had some mixed reviews but I was actually quite impressed and found them most comfortable with the reclining seats and the upper decks are great for admiring the scenery, almost like a panoramawagen.
An "IC-Café" steward came round to take food and drink orders too, which are served at-seat, this now seems to be the future of onboard catering on the InterCity der Deutsche Bahn, replacing the traditional Bordbistro sadly...
I hear that IC2 trainsets will take over from the traditional BR 120 and push-pull stock on the Karlsruhe-Stuttgart-Nürnberg circuit from next month too.
Sadly no N-Wagens were had for me on this occasion, I took a 111 and dostos down to Aalen in the afternoon to cover the Aalen-Ulm vice turn which was 218 and N-Wagens until very recently but I got bowled with a cart!

Hopefully I will make it back before Go-Ahead take over in the summer and cover some N-Wagens and dosto's on the Tübingen's etc on another "Baden bash"!

rg177 · 21 Jan 2019

I hear that IC2 trainsets will take over from the traditional BR 120 and push-pull stock on the Karlsruhe-Stuttgart-Nürnberg circuit from next month too.
Sadly no N-Wagens were had for me on this occasion, I took a 111 and dostos down to Aalen in the afternoon to cover the Aalen-Ulm vice turn which was 218 and N-Wagens until very recently but I got bowled with a cart!
Hopefully I will make it back before Go-Ahead take over in the summer and cover some N-Wagens and dosto's on the Tübingen's etc on another "Baden bash"!

The IC2s seem to have already entered service on the Karlsruhe-Nürnberg services, as the 08:07 from Stuttgart last Friday was formed of IC2+147519. Still smelled new inside but a disappointing substitute for a push pull 120 set.

cactustwirly · 21 Jan 2019

rg177 said:
The IC2s seem to have already entered service on the Karlsruhe-Nürnberg services, as the 08:07 from Stuttgart last Friday was formed of IC2+147519. Still smelled new inside but a disappointing substitute for a push pull 120 set.

Vagonweb says they start from 01/02, but it's still a shame, there are now very few 120 diagrams, mostly the Budapest - Munich sleeper (from Salzburg to Munich)

Please Explain · 21 Jan 2019

D6700 said:
Nuremberg to Munich Regional Express trains via the direct high speed line use Intercity type coaches with Class 101 loco's, despite being regional trains - although these are air-con. These are to be replaced by double decker stock from Skoda, which is way overdue.

I seen those on display at InnoTrans, looked smart but the IC-wagens and 101's will be missed by me..
Do you happen to know how long they have left before the skodas and dostos take over?

@simple simon ,
Many thanks for posting that most detailed info about how the Stuttgart U-bahn works! It made for some most interesting reading!!
:smile:

superjohn · 21 Jan 2019

cactustwirly said:
Vagonweb says they start from 01/02, but it's still a shame, there are now very few 120 diagrams, mostly the Budapest - Munich sleeper (from Salzburg to Munich)

The 120‘s are currently proving invaluable to DB on ersatzzug workings. I understand there are four standby sets formed of 10 IC carriages plus top and tail 120‘s. My observations last week were that they were in pretty constant use. I saw two in the space of an hour at Kassel this morning!

The recent fire along with the ongoing ICE1 and ICE3 refurbishments are creating something of a traction crisis. I also observed short formed ICE1/2 sets out in service.

Like many supposedly redundant German trains (I‘m thinking the class 420 units in particular) I suspect the class 120 will be with us in some form for a fair while yet.

rg177 · 21 Jan 2019

cactustwirly said:
Vagonweb says they start from 01/02, but it's still a shame, there are now very few 120 diagrams, mostly the Budapest - Munich sleeper (from Salzburg to Munich)

That's what I was going off- but it seems they've been pressed into service earlier. Not that I'd purposely gone for it- I needed to be on that service anyway to do my silly loop via Cheb, Plzen, and Linz back to Nuremberg! (Which is quite a fun circuit, if a bit tiring!)

If you want some entertainment from Stuttgart to Nuremberg the RE services were running as 114+Dostos (or in my case, 114+Dostos+114)

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