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List of preservation railway's expansion plans in future

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Meerkat

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I am very wary about extensions for the sake of it but getting adjacent to a mainline station opens up the market. Can’t believe I am the only one who would go by train if I couldn’t drive but would never go on a coach excursion with all its lack of flexibility and independence.
If you get a physical connection then it allows rail tours and more flexibility for guest stock (at significant cost obviously)
 
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Bensonby

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Because, for them, these lines are a visitor attraction and how they get there, like any other form of visitor attraction, is largely a matter of convenience and cost. Certainly they won't be obsessed by the means of getting there.

The Bluebell example, that I mentioned above, illustrates that a mainline connection can vastly increase visitor numbers:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-28988650

"
A Sussex heritage railway has seen its annual visitor numbers increase by 60,000 since it was reconnected to the mainline network.

The Bluebell Railway carried 250,000 passengers in the year after its extension from Sheffield Park to East Grinstead opened in March last year.

The two-mile stretch, which cost £3.5m, linked East Grinstead mainline station to Kingscote, 11 miles away.

Chief clerk Roy Watts said the railway had gone from a £3m to a £4m business."

Though the BBC have got mixed up with where Kingscote is!
 

Meerkat

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To be fair you would need several years figures before drawing a conclusion as there should always be a boost with people returning to see the extension
 
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To be fair you would need several years figures before drawing a conclusion as there should always be a boost with people returning to see the extension

You beat me to it
I am very wary about extensions for the sake of it but getting adjacent to a mainline station opens up the market. Can’t believe I am the only one who would go by train if I couldn’t drive but would never go on a coach excursion with all its lack of flexibility and independence.
If you get a physical connection then it allows rail tours and more flexibility for guest stock (at significant cost obviously)
Forgive me but here you go again! Coach travel has been popular with the elderly for years and years. Not with you or, indeed, I but we don't matter.
 

xotGD

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Being at a mainline connection also allows the preserved railway to promote itself to every passenger travelling to, from or through the mainline station. I'm sure that a lot more people in Airedale are aware of the existence of the KWVR than the E&BASR (or YDR as was).
 

A0wen

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Getting the thread back on track, if you'll pardon the pun.

Northampton & Lamport railway has got the track in place for its southern extension down to Boughton Lane - other work needs to be done before they can use it. Once that's done they want to start working northwards, initially to Merry Tom Crossing and then towards Brixworth.
 

2392

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Tanfield Railway have plans/aspirations to extend westward towards Byemoor on the old Bowes Railway colliery line. The plan is "piggy backed" on the back of a planning application by the Banks Mining group to open/operate an opencast mine, at/near Dipton. This opencast mine has for the moment been on a limited scale on account of objections to the permission. Ironically Marley Hill shed [Tanfield's HQ] was a Bowes shed rather than a Tanfield shed and they had to build a curve onto the Tanfield line as it ran at roughly right angles across the Bowes line at Marley Hill.

Edit: There was a feature about the Banks opencast mine at Dipton which has been worked on a small scale. The planning permission has been referred to the Minister for review.
 
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UP13

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As a father of young children, very long railways can be tiring. Great on the out journey but the novelty is gone by the return.

I'd say I'm terms of ideal length, it'd be 30 mins each way with something to do at the other end.

Long railways are great if they have stuff to do along the way. A great example is the RH&DR where you can watch the turntable at Hythe, go to the beach at Dymchurch, model railway and playground at New Romney and café and lighthouse at Dungenness. Perfect day out for little people and proper mainline running and pacifics galore for enthusiast dads.

Also being honest if I wanted to have a long ride behind a steam locomotive, you can't beat a railtour!
 
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That may clash with recent suggestions from the Telford Railway to extend that way, including building a 2' NG line actually towards the Museum site.
The TSR and SVR would be coming to Ironbridge from opposite directions. However, nobody has mentioned the serious problems with subsidence along what would be the trackbed used by the SVR at Jackfield.
 

Bedpan

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Getting the thread back on track, if you'll pardon the pun.

Northampton & Lamport railway has got the track in place for its southern extension down to Boughton Lane - other work needs to be done before they can use it. Once that's done they want to start working northwards, initially to Merry Tom Crossing and then towards Brixworth.
Yes, but how long before its finished? I took the attached photo at Boughton Crossing in 2011, it's now 2019.

Ther Northampton and Lamport as a line has all the ingredients of being a great preserved railway. nice countryside, several intermediate stations, a couple of short tunnels, a reasonable length - about 13 or 14 miles from the edge of Northampton to the edge of Market Harborough (as per Leicester North and Ruddington being situated o the edges of Leicester and Nottingham). Then its close to some fairly large towns including Leicester, Rugby, bedford, Coventry and Milton Keynes to name but a few, and there are no other preserved lines (that I can think of) in the area.

But it has never really got going, which is a great shame - a look at the website today shows just one (industrial) steal loco, a class 31 and a shunter being the only locos in operation. And whereas, by way of comparison, the Mid Hants went from their first trains from Alresford to Ropley in 1977 to running all the way to Alton in 1985, what have the N and LR done with regard to their half mile extension since i took the photo? Northampton and Lamport 29.6.11 (1).JPG
 

Journeyman

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Will the EOR ever get to Epping ?

The plan is to build a new station adjacent to the Tube station, with easy interchange. Epping station lacks capacity for heritage trains as both platforms are required all day to handle Tube services, and the Central Line ATO/ATP system prevents trains not fitted with the right equipment operating onto LU infrastructure.

There's quite a lot of space beyond the end of the platforms at Epping for a new platform to go in, so I can't see it being a huge problem.
 

47434

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I often wonder about the keenness of visitors to see heritage railways expanding. The costs are huge and I suspect the net benefits limited. I chatted once to a guard on the NYMR and his view was that whilst Whitby undoubtedly increased footfall, the railway was less profitable due to the enormous costs of accessing the NR metals. Shops in Grosmont were affected as people effectively spent more of the tourist pound in Whitby. I suspect the same would apply to Embsay. There is limited parking around Skipton station but more cross platform trade may be generated as per K&WVR
 

Mutant Lemming

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The plan is to build a new station adjacent to the Tube station, with easy interchange. Epping station lacks capacity for heritage trains as both platforms are required all day to handle Tube services, and the Central Line ATO/ATP system prevents trains not fitted with the right equipment operating onto LU infrastructure.

There's quite a lot of space beyond the end of the platforms at Epping for a new platform to go in, so I can't see it being a huge problem.

I thought the main issue was getting under the M25 ?
 

Bedpan

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Well I suppose that it definitely would be as the Central Line uses that stretch of track at the moment. When I went on the line a couple of years ago, the train ran to Coopersale which is beyond the M11 underbridge. It was a DEMU Hampshire unit as there were no run round facilities at Coopersale.
 

A0wen

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Yes, but how long before its finished? I took the attached photo at Boughton Crossing in 2011, it's now 2019.

Ther Northampton and Lamport as a line has all the ingredients of being a great preserved railway. nice countryside, several intermediate stations, a couple of short tunnels, a reasonable length - about 13 or 14 miles from the edge of Northampton to the edge of Market Harborough (as per Leicester North and Ruddington being situated o the edges of Leicester and Nottingham). Then its close to some fairly large towns including Leicester, Rugby, bedford, Coventry and Milton Keynes to name but a few, and there are no other preserved lines (that I can think of) in the area.

But it has never really got going, which is a great shame - a look at the website today shows just one (industrial) steal loco, a class 31 and a shunter being the only locos in operation. And whereas, by way of comparison, the Mid Hants went from their first trains from Alresford to Ropley in 1977 to running all the way to Alton in 1985, what have the N and LR done with regard to their half mile extension since i took the photo? View attachment 57991

It's changed quite alot since then - there's a full 'runaround' loop in place as well and they're making a start on the platform - part of the challenge was agreeing access with the neighbours to the platform. They've also had a couple of visits from the 'metal fairies' along the way as well.

It's biggest problem to my mind is there are other heritage lines not very far away which are better established and offer to the 'casual' visitor a better experience - the GCR, Nene Valley, Battlefield, Leighton Buzzard or Quainton Road are all within an hour of the NLR.

There's also competition locally in terms of the Rushden Historic Transport Society, Irchester Country Park, Northampton Ironstone Trust - all competing for the same 'custom'.
 

Journeyman

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I thought the main issue was getting under the M25 ?

I've just looked at a map - the M25 doesn't go anywhere near it. The M11 was an issue - they had to lower the track to restore it to full-size loading gauge - but other than that, there are no obstacles in the way, and all the track is in place, including a connection to LU at Epping. This was used to bring in the 1960 Stock unit used for a commemoration-of-closure event a few years ago.
 

Paceman

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The Leighton Buzzard Railway are currently raising funds for a 0.75 mile extension. The appeal is for 150k so seems quite achievable. The idea is to have more run in the countryside as the expansion of the town has reduced that.
 

Eyersey468

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The Yorkshire Wolds Railway will be extending their running line over the next couple of years.
 
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I thought the main issue was getting under the M25 ?
I've just looked at a map - the M25 doesn't go anywhere near it.
The EOR would pass under the M25 if it extended operations through Epping station and along the Central Line to Theydon Bois. It's only abouit 3 miles so, who knows, maybe Mutant Lemming is privy to information that the rest of us aren't? ;) :lol:
 

Mutant Lemming

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The EOR would pass under the M25 if it extended operations through Epping station and along the Central Line to Theydon Bois. It's only abouit 3 miles so, who knows, maybe Mutant Lemming is privy to information that the rest of us aren't? ;) :lol:

it's that London centric mentality - if it's not within the M25 it doesn't count.
 

J-Rod

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I often wonder about the keenness of visitors to see heritage railways expanding. The costs are huge and I suspect the net benefits limited. I chatted once to a guard on the NYMR and his view was that whilst Whitby undoubtedly increased footfall, the railway was less profitable due to the enormous costs of accessing the NR metals. Shops in Grosmont were affected as people effectively spent more of the tourist pound in Whitby. I suspect the same would apply to Embsay. There is limited parking around Skipton station but more cross platform trade may be generated as per K&WVR

Ah but if you look at the bigger picture, the NYMR is now very much a part of the fabric of Whitby (and the surrounding area) due to its extension to the main station there, simply because it makes it far more visible (rather than that quaint little line just up the road) because of the clouds of steam coming from the station.

Also, to be fair... there's only about 3 shops in Grosmont.
 

Coolzac

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Ah but if you look at the bigger picture, the NYMR is now very much a part of the fabric of Whitby (and the surrounding area) due to its extension to the main station there, simply because it makes it far more visible (rather than that quaint little line just up the road) because of the clouds of steam coming from the station.

Also, to be fair... there's only about 3 shops in Grosmont.

I absolutely agree! Whitby is the major local tourist destination, and having a base there means that far more people know about it who wouldn't otherwise, and make it a far more attractive service. For example, if you live in York, you can feasibly drive to Pickering (37 minutes according to google), get the steam train to Whitby, have a day out by the sea, then return by steam too!
 

Belperpete

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Surprised nobody has mentioned the Bala Lake's extension to Bala:
https://balalakerailwaytrust.org.uk//route.html

As regards main-line connections, to most people, a preserved railway is purely an attraction to visit, like the seaside, the adventure park, the shopping centre, etc. and they will no more think of using the train to reach a preserved railway than they would to get to any other attraction. So, while there is no doubt that a main-line connection will bring in additional traffic, it will only bring in significant numbers where there are a lot of people used to travelling by train to get to places. That is why the Bluebell's extension to East Grinstead was so successful, because it tapped into the London commuter market: a large number of people who automatically think of using the train/tube to get to where they want to go. Likewise the SVR and the K&WVR, whose connections tap into the significant Birmingham and Leeds commuter markets. Compare those with the EVR's connection at Duffield, or the FR's connection at Blaenau Ffestiniog, both of which undoubtedly bring in useful numbers of passengers, but not significant numbers, because very few people in those areas are used to travelling by train to get somewhere.

If you double the length of your line, then roughly speaking, you double your costs. You have twice as much infrastructure to maintain, and to keep running the same frequency of service you will likely need to run twice as many trains. So, unless you double your income, you will lose money by extending. Doubling the fare would not be enough - a significant proportion of most lines' incomes comes from sales, and most people will not buy twice as many Thomas toys and eat twice as many sandwiches just because the ride takes twice as long.

Bearing in mind that joe public just sees you as an attraction to visit, competing with all sorts of other attractions for his money, increasing your entrance fee is going to make you less competitive compared to the other local attractions. As has already been pointed out, increasing the length of the journey may also make your line less attractive, e.g. to families with little children, who may decide not to do the full trip.

The extensions that pay for themselves are those that bring in significant numbers of extra passengers, and their extra revenue, because they make the railway more attractive to visit (e.g. because they take you somewhere interesting), or make it easier to visit (the mainline connection).

The Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland Railways are an interesting case, in that the Welsh Highland was not built as an extension of the FR, and they are deliberately marketed as separate entities, rather than one long railway.
 

J-Rod

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I absolutely agree! Whitby is the major local tourist destination, and having a base there means that far more people know about it who wouldn't otherwise, and make it a far more attractive service. For example, if you live in York, you can feasibly drive to Pickering (37 minutes according to google), get the steam train to Whitby, have a day out by the sea, then return by steam too!

It's SUCH a shame that you can't do that with Hunstanston/King's Lynn (where I live). Would go a long way to solving the summer gridlock on the road down there! Anyway, that's not even any form of line at the moment, let alone a preserved one... until someone decides it might be worth doing... SO much potential, considering where it ends up and where it passes through (Wolferton, for Sandringham).
 
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Surprised nobody has mentioned the Bala Lake's extension to Bala:
https://balalakerailwaytrust.org.uk//route.html

As regards main-line connections, to most people, a preserved railway is purely an attraction to visit, like the seaside, the adventure park, the shopping centre, etc. and they will no more think of using the train to reach a preserved railway than they would to get to any other attraction. So, while there is no doubt that a main-line connection will bring in additional traffic, it will only bring in significant numbers where there are a lot of people used to travelling by train to get to places. That is why the Bluebell's extension to East Grinstead was so successful, because it tapped into the London commuter market: a large number of people who automatically think of using the train/tube to get to where they want to go. Likewise the SVR and the K&WVR, whose connections tap into the significant Birmingham and Leeds commuter markets. Compare those with the EVR's connection at Duffield, or the FR's connection at Blaenau Ffestiniog, both of which undoubtedly bring in useful numbers of passengers, but not significant numbers, because very few people in those areas are used to travelling by train to get somewhere.

If you double the length of your line, then roughly speaking, you double your costs. You have twice as much infrastructure to maintain, and to keep running the same frequency of service you will likely need to run twice as many trains. So, unless you double your income, you will lose money by extending. Doubling the fare would not be enough - a significant proportion of most lines' incomes comes from sales, and most people will not buy twice as many Thomas toys and eat twice as many sandwiches just because the ride takes twice as long.

Bearing in mind that joe public just sees you as an attraction to visit, competing with all sorts of other attractions for his money, increasing your entrance fee is going to make you less competitive compared to the other local attractions. As has already been pointed out, increasing the length of the journey may also make your line less attractive, e.g. to families with little children, who may decide not to do the full trip.

The extensions that pay for themselves are those that bring in significant numbers of extra passengers, and their extra revenue, because they make the railway more attractive to visit (e.g. because they take you somewhere interesting), or make it easier to visit (the mainline connection).

The Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland Railways are an interesting case, in that the Welsh Highland was not built as an extension of the FR, and they are deliberately marketed as separate entities, rather than one long railway.
Agree with about 90%. There is still a touch of railway enthusiasts wishful thinking about "mainline" connections. One line I know of experienced the expected surge of business after such an extension, only for business to settle back when the novelty wore off. Human nature being what it is, we are less likely to hear of such things than of triumphant increases.:rolleyes:

Leisure railways would IMHO be better advised to concentrate on improved quality such as in rolling stock cleanliness and condition.
 
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When is the extension to Robertsbridge on the Kent & East Sussex Railway due to open?
You might want to let the public inquiry take place first and then, if that doesn't throw it out, if there are no other legal challenges or obstacles, etc, give the railway the time and resources to actually be built between Junction Road and Hodson's Mill (including level crossings over the B2244, the former A21 and a rather troublesome one over the A21 itself).

So I'd give it (quite) a few years yet...
 
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Ah yes i forgot about the issues with building three new level crossings (which combined with the current National Rail one at Robertsbridge will mean the area will have four level crossings). Although most heritage railways don't run very frequently so i can't see it being too much of a problem (it won't be anything close to being like certain busy level crossings which close every couple of minutes). What is the current rough estimate for the extension to open? Will it likely be in the next five or ten years?
 
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