TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Yeah but how many average punters are going to note a fleet number and then check it? They CAN but unlikely. An average passenger just sees a modern bus and can’t see its actually 12 years old.
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First Greater Glasgow
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Yeah but how many average punters are going to note a fleet number and then check it? They CAN but unlikely. An average passenger just sees a modern bus and can’t see its actually 12 years old.
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R
RailUK Forums
Just thinks it pointless with this Private reg thing , just refurb your buses , no need to hide your age.
To be honest most of the early refurbs had registrations from former SB holdings operations (mostly KCB) so they probably didn't cost much other than DVLA admin fees, and do hide the age from some customers gives the perception of newness along with the new enviros in the same livery. what annoys me at the moment is applying the new urban livery to non refurbished buses, why waste money making the outside look good if the seats are still threadbare. have they not learned from the 9/9A.
Interestingly I had a eclipse on the 31 with new darker purple re trimmed seats . Sf55 ex overtown bus .
I was reading first on Facebook respond to someone who uses the 21 and first said there is refurbished buses on the 21 , repainted aye !
I was reading first on Facebook respond to someone who uses the 21 and first said there is refurbished buses on the 21 , repainted aye !
JumpinTrainz
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I’m with you on that one. First are rather good at that. You can brand buses from the outside but it doesn’t excuse the fact that the inside of buses are extremely tired! Fair enough the B7Ls are being retired shortly but for most of their life they had extremely grubby interiors. The B7RLEs and B7TLs (particularly the 53 plates which were on a busy route like the 18 up until only a few months ago!!) are threadbare which is extremely embarrassing for any bus operator let alone a huge company like First!!
Hopefully many more buses that they’re to keep will receive a refurbishment like the B9TLs!
GaryMcEwan
Established Member
Has Caley been getting some B10BLE's on loan from other depots? Saw 61705 and 61709 on the 46, and 61653 on the 64. Would have thought at least 61705 and 61709 would be due to be getting withdrawn soon due to the age of them.
All 3 are permanent members of the Caledonia fleet for the time being.
JumpinTrainz
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The B10BLEs are looking miles better than the B7Ls which normally do the route! The ones used on the 46 and 64 look awful!! Noticed a few E200MMCs on the 64 as of recent too. Those Y plate B10BLEs are looking brilliant for their age it was a pleasant surprise the other day.
Strathclyder
Established Member
And at any rate, they undoubtedly are in better nick mechanically than the slightly younger B7Ls that have been depearting the fleet for M8 Recovery's Hillington yard in recent months.
In fact, it seems to be playing out in a similar fashion to the way the Volvo artics were withdrawn from the fleet in the 2010-2013 period; the B7LAs went first, while the older, but overall in better shape B10LAs outlasted them by a wide margin. Of course, there's no way of telling if the same will happen here, but I'd lying if I said I haven't noticed the similarities.
There is no need for private plates. Few passengers look for a reg plate- they tend to do that because something has made them unhappy. If the interior is in decent nick then that makes more of an impression. The 9/9a buses running against the Citaros of McGill's is just bizarre! Wondered if First might further cut that back from Paisley but does seem to be fairly well loaded.
Gingerbus1991
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I have been led to believe that Andrew Jarvis is doing a good job, but to me he certainly comes across as a business man, not a bus man which I think should be important to work in such a prolific position wthin a bus company.
I am NOT a lothian fan boy, but do certainly respect what they provide.
I still put that in starch contrast to the way lothian is being run, compared to FiG.
First Aberdeen is seemingly sharing this uselessness after being fined.
It just doesnt look good professional what so ever.
I am NOT a lothian fan boy, but do certainly respect what they provide.
I still put that in starch contrast to the way lothian is being run, compared to FiG.
First Aberdeen is seemingly sharing this uselessness after being fined.
It just doesnt look good professional what so ever.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Where do you start with this post?
Moir Lockhead was a born and bred, dyed in the wool bus man. Fact is that people who run the best bus companies are both good bus men and are also good businessmen.
As for Andrew Jarvis not being a bus man, why not check his tweets at @jarvisthebus and see how passionate he is about public transport. You never know, he may even have a degree in it....
Almost as a laughable as claiming that you were merely enquiring as to Jordan’s views or that you’re not a Lothian fanatic...
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Passengers DO look at reg plates. It’s why coach firms have been hiding the age of older vehicles for years. These are regular people - the type who can’t ID a Gemini 1 from a mk2, or aren’t going to note a fleet number then check it on Flickr.
However, I do agree that it is fairly pointless exercise if you’re only going to repaint a vehicle and not refurbish the interior especially one that has had 10 years of hard service.
I do wonder about the 9 to Paisley , i know someone who uses McGills along PRW as its more frequent , only trump card is that first operate a night service.
Had them for a few months . Used to get them on the 31 on Saturday but not seen them out lately.
263 still has a few on
Yeah the olde geminis feel the most solid of buses , but let down by there seats , are most of the 53 plates still at Blantyre ?
GaryMcEwan
Established Member
The 53 plate Geminis seem to have been split between Blantyre and Caledonia. They are now mostly appearing on the 21, but since Caley have a couple they're appearing on the 38s and 60/A.
Had to laugh today. Over the weekend, I noticed one of the 68 plate, 75 branded E400s with a T side ad for the Glasgow LEZ. Fair enough, it’s an E6 bus bought for the LEZ. This morning, the same ad on the side of a 54 plate E3 Gemini. Ahem...
KendalKing
Established Member
When Andrew Jarvis, started with First Bus, I was hoping that he would be in charge at First Manchester, as he and his family use to run Blue Bus of Horwich, nr Bolton. They use to run in direct competition to First, so he would have known where the weaknesses are at!
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Of course - forgot he was Roger Jarvis’s son. Still, not enough of a busman for some people
overthewater
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Who is Roger?
I do think Andrew is a bus man per say but he does have a business side to him hence all the big time goody's he give away while at East Scotland, he know how to jazz hand any new inversement. However, he has gotten things wrong but he is still far better than many others out in the bus lands of the uk.
I do think Andrew is a bus man per say but he does have a business side to him hence all the big time goody's he give away while at East Scotland, he know how to jazz hand any new inversement. However, he has gotten things wrong but he is still far better than many others out in the bus lands of the uk.
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Ex overtown buses 61705
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
As was said earlier. Roger (a former Shearings Manager) was one of the founders of Blue Bus of Horwich who successfully set up an operation against GM Buses (and Yorkshire Rider) and eventually purchased the former Stagecoach/Blazefield operations in Bolton before they finally sold out to Arriva. Andrew is his son and was the General Manager for the business. The idea that he’s “not a bus man” is absolute bovine waste material.
That’s before we get onto the usual rubbish that gets spouted. He’s “more of a businessman” type stuff - well, yeah, he’s running a business! He’s made mistakes? Show me a person who hasn’t. All this from individuals who haven’t “walked the walk” yet feel they can stand in judgement.
overthewater
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He is also more approachable than many others.
JumpinTrainz
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Andrew Jarvis to be fair to him has did more for First in the past few year than anyone else who was in power. We haven’t had refurbished buses in years. We also haven’t saw so much new stock appear. There was a good period where Glasgow had no new stock coming in. He’s upgrading routes which would never have been upgraded before! The whole route branding and presentation stands out a mile! I think he’s doing a pretty good job so far
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Indeed and not addressing my comments at either of you in this instance. Just felt it was unwarranted criticism when Andrew Jarvis (and indeed many good bus company managers) are faced with some major challenges with the issues of congestion, high street footfall, pollution targets (that seem focused on commercial fleets whilst ignoring private car drivers/voters). We all know that First have some additional challenges given their history.
The cliched “not a bus man” remark is something I’ve seen so many times. It’s usually wrong and usually associated with the “bright young graduates/not done the time at the coal face” type rubbish. Andrew Jarvis is a) a bus man first and foremost and b) is seemingly getting the fleet improved and c) returning decent financial returns. Of course, there’s a lot of to do and I’m sure he’d prefer not to have tired Eclipses in front line service.
Gingerbus1991
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Of course, but why has First gained a very low rep amongst the public. I for sure understand that falling passengers numbers are not just one of congestion or factor outside the control of operators, but a few of unreliable, inconsistent and unclean vehicles, of course the increase in car ownership has exploded in the last few years, of course which isn't in control of any bus company, I do not think that the LEZ will increase passenger numbers, it will simply force more to find new ways to keep traveling in there cars without it costing them any more to drive, in the face of things though I do understand why ticket prices keep increasing.
Its very hard not to compare Glasgow and Edinburgh, on a passenger basis the people using buses in Edinburgh seem far happier than those in Glasgow, its not hard to see why though.
FiG seem to be very lazy with what's being done in glasgow, with the new purchases that were brought in last year why have more buses not been able to be sent to get refurbished?
smtglasgow
Member
MDs at any of the big group op-cos must be under immense pressure to deliver results – the City is unforgiving. I suspect with Andrew Jarvis his focus is on managing the LEZ and the new fleet while maintaining profitability. The Glasgow operation has seriously underwhelmed over the last few years (from a passenger perspective), but it has been a rare financial success story within UK Bus. I’m an optimist by nature, so with new and refreshed fleet and decent branding being introduced, it’s just possible that a corner has been turned. But what they really need is help from the council in the shape of bus priorities and higher parking charges - can't see any party agreeing to hurt car-owners.
Gingerbus1991
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I think First opened the door on many projects and competition to other transport providers which over the years has doused Firsts profitability, I've read many a time that first tryed to go to big to soon, in glasgow namely Stagecoach on the Fastlink and McGills on Paisley Rd West, these may be relatively small issues as a whole but one's which, as I've said before, it should've been forseen and one which couldve made an impact to solidify First as the best.
No one really wants to take a ride on one of Firsts busted Eclipses on the 9 nor do many want to use the 38s, 60s or 41 from Easterhouse when the x19 is quicker and just as regular.
The only advantage the 9 has is operating later Into the night.
I assume just like the 9 Vs the 38 that if First wanted to they couldve competed on the x19 route?
Even Glasgow Airport doesn't seem bother to prioritised bus transport to Glasgow City centre on behalf of First, given that its Glasgow Airport has a deal with FiG you would think a higher level of ridership would be vastly sought after between both through dominent advertisement, comparing that with Edinburgh airport who has a dedicated ticket office etc for such a journey.
All these small problems have painted a very large picture of the problems that First are facing, I used to be optimistic but now I am just realistic, First are a slowly dying breed.
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Given the public transport alternatives to the 500, the deal between FiG and the airport may not specify much beyond the minimum in terms of publicising the service.
I suspect the vast majority of the 500's users are those visiting Glasgow from afar - people in the west of Scotland are probably so used to the poor* public transport links to the airport, and so used to arriving/departing by taxi or private car, that there's not much scope for growth among the "natives".
That said, the suggestion made further up this thread that there could be new deckers on the horizon for the 500 may well signal a change in approach.
* well, for a given value of "poor" anyway - people like those on this forum know perfectly well that it's not all that difficult to get to/from the airport by bus, but I'd guess the general public doesn't see it that way.