Northern Irish and Scottish banknote acceptance

Having recently returned from a holiday in Northern Ireland I have three Northern Irish banknotes. I honestly didn't expect any trouble spending them here in England as I have only ever once had a Scottish note not accepted (in a bar in Newcastle under Lyme a good number of years ago) out of many times I have paid with them. In addition at the shop where I work I was told in no uncertain terms we do indeed accept both Scottish and Northern Irish banknotes and have even seen a few go through the till. I also had no problem on my last trip over there putting one through the self service machines in Morrisons.

However, with the Northern Irish banknotes in and around Thirsk I've had nothing but trouble:

1. In Lidl, I was told it 'must be an old one' as it was made of paper (Bank of Ireland £5) 'but you can probably still pay it into your bank'
2. In Wetherspoons, I was told 'I'm sorry, we don' accept Irish notes' (same note)
3. In Wine Rack (same company as Bargain Booze) the cashier seemed unsure so asked if I had an alternative means of payment. I paid by card. £10 Bank of Ireland note and £5 Ulster Bank note.

Whilst recognising that they're not legal tender, I thought acceptance was customary as I know both the place in which I work and the railway accept them. In particular I find it bizarre that people who have no problem with Scottish ones won't accept Northern Irish ones.

As an on topic aside, what would the position be if one encountered a TVM at an unstaffed penalty fares station, which wasn't programmed to accept Northern Irish notes? Are cash accepting TVMs in England programmed to accept these notes? It's in NRCoT that they're accepted so the answer I would hope would be yes.

What have any of your experiences been like?

The TVM wouldn’t be likely to accept it but it would be acceptable to pay on the train.

I go to NI frequently, and I've honestly never had a problem spending the Northern Irish notes over here.
Just act confident and it'll probably be fine I reckon.

It’s been a few years since I have had any Northern Ireland bank notes, and we certainly still had the old English £5 notes back then. I never had any issues but I remember one chap I had been working with over there tried to pay for something in ASDA (other supermarkets are available) and they declined until the manager was called who promptly apologised and accepted it. (This would have been likely 15 years ago so card usage wasn’t as popular)

I know that supermarket automatic tills in England accept Scottish bank notes but I'm not sure about Northern Irish notes.

(as as aside I don't think I've ever come across a Northern Irish bank note myself)

I have often heard of people having problems using these other banknotes within England. Many people don't like accepting them.

At the bus company where i work we only accept the normal Bank Of England banknotes. We are told to refuse any other banknotes.

Here is a quote from our faretable book:

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Rules regarding payment with banknotes:

The following GBP banknotes are always accepted:

• England (Bank Of England)

The following GBP banknotes are not to be accepted:

• Falkland Islands (Falkland Islands Government)
• Gibraltar (Gibraltar Government)
• Guernsey (States Of Guernsey)
• Isle Of Man (Isle Of Man Government)
• Jersey (States Of Jersey)
• Northern Ireland (Bank Of Ireland)
• Northern Ireland (Danske Bank [Northern Bank])
• Northern Ireland (First Trust Bank)
• Northern Ireland (Ulster Bank)
• Saint Helena (Saint Helena Government)
• Scotland (Bank Of Scotland)
• Scotland (Clydesdale Bank)
• Scotland (Royal Bank Of Scotland)

Passengers attempting to use any of these banknotes should be politely advised that we don't accept them and asked to use normal Bank Of England banknotes or coins. If they do not have any Bank Of England banknotes or coins on them to pay then you should allow them to travel for free but advise the passenger to ensure that they have Bank Of England banknotes or coins for future travel on our buses. Under no circumstances should you accept these banknotes as payment.

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These other banknotes are not legal tender in England so anyone does have the right to refuse them.

I think one of the reasons that makes some shops and businesses reluctant to accept them is that they can't really do much with them until they pay them in. I don't think they can really give them as change to other customers. If they did i don't think the customer would be happy with receiving it (and would be well within their rights to refuse and demand Bank Of England banknotes or coins).

I am surprised that we still have so many banknotes these days and haven't gotten rid of them yet. It would make it a lot more simple if we just used Bank Of England banknotes. We must be one of the only countries to have this situation. The only other one i can think of is Denmark which has separate banknotes for the Faroe Islands (but not for Greenland).

user1234 said:

These other banknotes are not legal tender in England so anyone does have the right to refuse them.

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The only "legal tender" banknotes in the UK are bank of England notes. The rest, however, are "legal currency".

In any case the whole 'legal tender' thing is a bit of a red herring isn't it? I thought it only counts under a very narrow set of circumstances in court...

I believe that legal tender only applies for money that you are owed (such as for getting change for something you have purchased or for paying for something that you have already received) but not for things like buying something in a shop.

True, though I guess somewhere could align the accepted forms of payment in an invitation to treat with those of legal tender. I also remember in the local paper (I was living in Newcastle-under-Lyme) the story of a man whose business owed several hundred pounds in rates, taking the amount to the council offices in 1 and 2 p mixed coins, only to have them refused as they're not legal tender in this amount and then kicking up a fuss.

legal tender tends to mean what is legal what you must accept within the law
scottish currency is in general accepted as courancy but not a legal requirement in england
in other words traders fully know the notes will be accepted within the banking system but an extra inconvenience a bit like a cheque so avoid iff possible

It really is a load of nonsense. The first time I ever encountered an Irish note I called my supervisor over to take a look, and she advised me to accept it because it had the words "pound" and "sterling" printed on it. Living in Scotland, I'm obviously accustomed to handling Scottish banknotes, but up until that point I'd never encountered Bank of Ireland or Ulster Bank notes.

user1234 said:

I am surprised that we still have so many banknotes these days and haven't gotten rid of them yet. It would make it a lot more simple if we just used Bank Of England banknotes. We must be one of the only countries to have this situation. The only other one i can think of is Denmark which has separate banknotes for the Faroe Islands (but not for Greenland).

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It would be a lot simpler if companies like yours recognised the fact that other parts of the UK (and other bits of the "Sterlingzone" that aren't part of the UK) issue their own banknotes that are acceptable as currency and gave the appropriate training.

Partly through spending time with a friend who engages in the hobby of banknote-collecting; I find it pretty much of a "fun" experience when I land up with notes from non-England-&-Wales parts of the land: seeing which places will accept them, and which are unhappy with them -- in the latter circumstance, I willingly proffer "orthodox" money. I went on holiday to Northern Ireland a couple of years ago; came back with several N.I. notes, which gave no big problem -- IIRC, some were accepted as payment, some I swopped at the bank for the ordinary stuff.

My "collector" friend finds that in quite a lot of retail establishments, people are uneasy when offered in payment, Bank of England £50 notes. He indulges dreams of, some time, utterly freaking them out by proffering, in England, a Scottish £100 note; I don't think he has ever actually done that deed.

big all said:

legal tender tends to mean what is legal what you must accept within the law
scottish currency is in general accepted as courancy but not a legal requirement in england

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Legal tender means tender you must accept by law in relation to settling a debt. Anyone can refuse any money, Bank of England or otherwise, if there is no debt. At a McDonald’s for example you pay before you eat, and there is therefore no debt to be settled. Thy could, in theory, refuse a BoE ten pound note. The same couldn’t be said at a proper restaurant where you pay after eating. They must accept BoE currency to settle the balance.

Scottish notes are legal tender nowhere. Not even in Scotland.

It might be down to lack of training of the staff into knowing what genuine NI bank notes are meant to look & feel like.

A further issue, is that Scottish £20’s are the easiest to fake. Thieves also know to spray them with perfume as that defeats fake note detector pens. Many places in England refuse to take Scottish £20’s as it’s not worth the risk of it being fake, which is understandable. If you ever get a nice smelling Scottish £20, it’s probably not real.

I once had someone try to pay with a Scottish £100 note... Needless to say I asked him for an alternative payment method.

You get the odd person trying to give you Isle of Man money, which isn’t worth the same as GBP.

Iskra said:

You get the odd person trying to give you Isle of Man money, which isn’t worth the same as GBP.

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I presume, the same deal with Channel Islands notes -- similarly, British territory but not part of the UK. Our family are big Guernsey fans -- sometimes find selves bringing C.I. notes back to England, but know better than to try to spend them here !

I remember seeing this on Ceefax/Teletext, remember them? The question was on the legality of Scottish banknotes in England. It basically said the same as many of the previous replies. That technically Scottish [in this case] notes weren't legal tender in England, but you had more chance of having one accepted in Blyth [Northumberland] than Bournemouth. As Blyth is nearer to Scotland, than Bournemouth. Equally on the flip side of the coin Bank of England notes weren't legal in Scotland using the same rules as applied to the Scottish notes......

AlterEgo said:

Scottish notes are legal tender nowhere. Not even in Scotland.

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The concept of legal tender doesn’t exist in Scots Law so that point is moot.

Some businesses in England will refuse to accept BoE £50 notes, especially for small purchases. Conversely, if they wish, they are quite entitled to accept cowrie shells.

Unless I have an imminent trip to Scotland planned, I usually pay any Scottish or NI banknotes I get into the bank. As I do BoE £50 notes. It's not exactly a big deal! I appreciate some people will be dubious of accepting them because they may not know if they are forgeries or withdrawn notes. So I tend not to use them for purchases myself.

Spending a Bank Of England £50 banknote can be just as hard as using those other banknotes from Northern Ireland and Scotland etc. They can be a real pain to use. Lots of people don't want to accept these.

At the bus company where i work we also refuse the Bank Of England £50 banknotes as well. I think a lot of businesses are reluctant to take them. Many shops would probably refuse them as well.

Why are £50 notes so often refused? I can understand for purchases with small amounts of money (inconveninet to give change for a £50 note for a £3 purchase say), but with larger purchases (say £40 or more), I see no problem.

I also find that if I withdraw a large amount of cash from the bank (say to buy a car), they tend not to give £50 notes but £20 notes. Anyone know why this is?

I think it is due to the fact that lots of them can be counterfeit. They have a reputation for being the most popular banknote to make counterfeits of. Even if someone comes on my bus and purchases a monthly ticket which can cost just over £100.00 we still can't accept them. I think that is the same reason for most businesses.

In an update to my mystery shopping I've just had the bank of Ireland fiver accepted without question at the shop in Carlton Miniott post office.

user1234 said:

I think it is due to the fact that lots of them can be counterfeit. They have a reputation for being the most popular banknote to make counterfeits of. Even if someone comes on my bus and purchases a monthly ticket which can cost just over £100.00 we still can't accept them. I think that is the same reason for most businesses.

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If hardly anyone accepts £50 notes then they are in effect worthless.

I'd largely agree re 50s though again we accept them at work. Given their reputed use for tax evasion and the decline in use of cash for large payments I'm surprised they're not being abolished but apparently the BoE are to press ahead with new plastic ones - which may solve the worries about forgeries.

As someone who used to help an ex-partner in a small retail establishment (when the balance of transactions was far more cash-heavy than it would be now, a decade later) I know that Scottish and Northern Irish notes were not a problem to bank - paying-in slips even had a line for tallying them up. The problem some small outlets might have is that other customers would refuse them in change, so potentially reducing your available float. If everyone comes in proffering £20s and 10s or gives you NI/Scots notes, you'll end up running out of fivers then using up all your pound coins.

user1234 said:

Even if someone comes on my bus and purchases a monthly ticket which can cost just over £100.00 we still can't accept them.

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You need a £100 note for that... as issued by all three Scottish banks.

Highlandspring said:

You need a £100 note for that... as issued by all three Scottish banks.

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Something I take (great) pleasure in carrying with me when I down "South of Hadrian's Wall".......if even some of the looks could kill I'd have been dead long ago

And when your £100 note is (inevitably) refused, you can offer to pay instead in brand new Royal Bank of Scotland £1 notes.