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Class 710 LO

ijmad

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The number of times people have suggested using 315s or 313s or whatever in this thread is now bordering on the ridiculous.
 
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The number of times people have suggested using 315s or 313s or whatever in this thread is now bordering on the ridiculous.

It's depressing that people don't even attempt to read even the recent pages in the thread, and wade in with this 'great idea' that clearly no one else has thought of yet :rolleyes:
 

Railperf

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It is ridiculous in this country that we don't have a standardised form of train dispatch - and certainly that the rolling stock should be suitable for the driver to be able to view platform monitors where they are available or alternatively use the train onboard cameras where platform monitors are not available.
 

Railperf

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And the Barking - Gospel Oak rail user group are hoping today to convince TFL to lease C2C 377s at weekends ...
 

liam456

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Hey, I was just wondering, what about the large number of available AC EMUs around the UK? Surely can't be any more difficult than plonking my favourite one on the tracks and running it... It's like the railways aren't even run for us enthusiasts anymore!







;);)
 

hwl

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And the Barking - Gospel Oak rail user group are hoping today to convince TFL to lease C2C 377s at weekends ...
What C2C 377s?
The C2C 387s are heavily used during the week and only get significant maintenance at the weekends. But why let practicalities get in the way of cunning plans?
 

hwl

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Hey, I was just wondering, what about the large number of available AC EMUs around the UK? Surely can't be any more difficult than plonking my favourite one on the tracks and running it... It's like the railways aren't even run for us enthusiasts anymore!







;);)
Please keep reposting this at least once every page to help refocus people's minds!
 

hwl

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It is ridiculous in this country that we don't have a standardised form of train dispatch - and certainly that the rolling stock should be suitable for the driver to be able to view platform monitors where they are available or alternatively use the train onboard cameras where platform monitors are not available.
The new standard (RDG/ROSCOs) is onboard camera and cab monitors but there is large legacy fleet that isn't. Platform monitors /mirrors haven't been installed for a very long time and will be disappearing as new stock replaces old e.g. LO West Anglia and Anglia, SWR metro services, SE when the networkers are replaced, Southern when 455s and 313s are replaced in the next franchise.
 

zn1

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heres a crazy idea that i know EVERY DRIVER AND ASLEF WOULD NEVER LET HAPPEN..

IF a small squadron of 313-315s could be utiilsed - they are short enough, not power hungry, could handle the passenger loads with ease..

Now ...at each station stop , the driver places his unit in to NEUTRAL. STEP 3 THE BRAKE, OPEN HIS DOOR,(unit cannot move anyway as brake interlock is failed safe by doors and unit in neutal) LOOKS AT THE DOORS OF HIS TRAIN..IN THE SAME WAY A GUARD WOULD DO, makes sure it safe.....then closes the doors...he ir SHE can then get back in the seat,open window, look behind him.. engage forwards, release the brake and move off. if the signal has been pulled off.....of course this means the driver getting off backside and leaving cab..its a common sense .not dangerous...this is why it will never ever be permitted by ASLEF, RMT, NETWORK RAIL OR the TOCS......i can hear you all screaming at me....
 

samuelmorris

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What C2C 377s?
The C2C 387s are heavily used during the week and only get significant maintenance at the weekends. But why let practicalities get in the way of cunning plans?
They're not heavily used at all, or at least they weren't, but I was under the impression the terms of the lease were that they had a very restricted mileage they could cover and they had to be returned in a pretty much as-new condition.
 

twpsaesneg

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Did all of the DOO kit get removed from the DC lines to Watford after the 313's left? If not could 313's be used on that route to free up more 378's for GOB, if it's going to become a long and protracted mess to get the 710's into service?
 

Fincra5

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heres a crazy idea that i know EVERY DRIVER AND ASLEF WOULD NEVER LET HAPPEN..

IF a small squadron of 313-315s could be utiilsed - they are short enough, not power hungry, could handle the passenger loads with ease..

Now ...at each station stop , the driver places his unit in to NEUTRAL. STEP 3 THE BRAKE, OPEN HIS DOOR,(unit cannot move anyway as brake interlock is failed safe by doors and unit in neutal) LOOKS AT THE DOORS OF HIS TRAIN..IN THE SAME WAY A GUARD WOULD DO, makes sure it safe.....then closes the doors...he ir SHE can then get back in the seat,open window, look behind him.. engage forwards, release the brake and move off. if the signal has been pulled off.....of course this means the driver getting off backside and leaving cab..its a common sense .not dangerous...this is why it will never ever be permitted by ASLEF, RMT, NETWORK RAIL OR the TOCS......i can hear you all screaming at me....

Can't tell if you're taking the piss...
but the reason you have monitors / On-board screens it to perform a final safety check before taking power. Something you can't do without the equipment. Yes there is "Look-Back" but that all depends if the platform is curved. Also, I don't believe it's a method of dispatch that is allowed to be re-introduced(?) ..

We use this kind of method in degraded dispatch on SN. But key word there is degraded.

But why let that get in the way of having a kick at drivers and a bash at the unions. :rolleyes:
 
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Can't tell if you're taking the piss...
but the reason you have monitors / On-board screens it to perform a final safety check before taking power. Something you can't do without the equipment. Yes there is "Look-Back" but that all depends if the platform is curved. Also, I don't believe it's a method of dispatch that is allowed to be re-introduced(?) ..

We use this kind of method in degraded dispatch on SN. But key word there is degraded.

But why let that get in the way of having a kick at drivers and a bash at the unions. :rolleyes:

Yep. Now I'm not a rail union fanboy in any universe, but I can see that it's all 'common sense' until an accident happens and the driver is up for dismissal, or worse, in court, because he/she missed something owing to what we now consider to be 'degraded' conditions. DOO cameras were introduced for a reason; let's not assume that we can dispense with their requirement when the situation gets a bit difficult.
This is like saying that we don't need private hire/taxi regulations because Uber wants to grow grow grow, then having a tantrum when their drivers are suspected in crimes against passengers.
 

Railperf

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They're not heavily used at all, or at least they weren't, but I was under the impression the terms of the lease were that they had a very restricted mileage they could cover and they had to be returned in a pretty much as-new condition.
The 387s would hardly be taxed on the goblin doing at most 10 return trips per day which is around 240 miles.
 

ijmad

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Hey, I was just wondering, what about the large number of available AC EMUs around the UK? Surely can't be any more difficult than plonking my favourite one on the tracks and running it... It's like the railways aren't even run for us enthusiasts anymore!

;);)

No-one liked my suggestion of using the Flying Scotsman. :frown:

I mean, maybe not in peak service. Just at the weekends. Choo choo.

(How's the interaction between coal smoke and OHLE anyway?)
 

rebmcr

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heres a crazy idea that i know EVERY DRIVER AND ASLEF WOULD NEVER LET HAPPEN..

IF a small squadron of 313-315s could be utiilsed - they are short enough, not power hungry, could handle the passenger loads with ease..

Now ...at each station stop , the driver places his unit in to NEUTRAL. STEP 3 THE BRAKE, OPEN HIS DOOR,(unit cannot move anyway as brake interlock is failed safe by doors and unit in neutal) LOOKS AT THE DOORS OF HIS TRAIN..IN THE SAME WAY A GUARD WOULD DO, makes sure it safe.....then closes the doors...he ir SHE can then get back in the seat,open window, look behind him.. engage forwards, release the brake and move off. if the signal has been pulled off.....of course this means the driver getting off backside and leaving cab..its a common sense .not dangerous...this is why it will never ever be permitted by ASLEF, RMT, NETWORK RAIL OR the TOCS......i can hear you all screaming at me....

The gap between the final look at the doors and the moment of taking power was the subject of a lengthy court case involving Merseyrail. It was proven in law that such company policies are not adequate.

(Not the drunken young girl who died, but the elderly lady who tried to board too late and got injured).
 

samuelmorris

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The 387s would hardly be taxed on the goblin doing at most 10 return trips per day which is around 240 miles.
Still more than the 100 or so they do today, only 5 days a week, and for only 4 hours a day in service. In any case, far from the only issue as others have explained.
 

colchesterken

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Could they run 315 s with a guard either a trained driver or other staff, maybe a bit of overtime needed
G A trained guards from management at short notice to cover strikes
It would be a shame to drop back the service after doing so much. I remember the last days of steam you had a compartment to yourself on most trains
 

samuelmorris

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Could they run 315 s with a guard either a trained driver or other staff, maybe a bit of overtime needed
G A trained guards from management at short notice to cover strikes
It would be a shame to drop back the service after doing so much. I remember the last days of steam you had a compartment to yourself on most trains
I don't think 315s have any guard's panels fitted do they?
 

Peter Sarf

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Not unless you manage to fit DOO cameras to the units you're thinking of, or retrofitting all stations along the Goblin with the necessary platform equipment for DOO dispatch, or manage to recruit and train a bunch of guards. All of these options will take months to realise and will cost a lot of money.

So is it time to face up to that ?. Probably not I suspect but how close ?.

It's depressing that people don't even attempt to read even the recent pages in the thread, and wade in with this 'great idea' that clearly no one else has thought of yet :rolleyes:

I have read quite a lot, if not all, of this thread. I am well aware of the various suggestions of using older surplus EMUs. I am also well aware of the disadvantages discussed.

Here is what I actually said =
"I wonder, if the problems will be for so long, will it be worthwhile considering 313s or other AC units (along with all the training etc) ?."
Please note the bit I have now put in bold.

The question I was trying to ask was :-
Are the delays now so long that it could be time to reconsider the options that have been discounted in the past ?.
Probably still not worth considering surplus EMUs hopefully but I wonder how close to it being worth considering is the situation getting ?.
 
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colchesterken

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Guard has a green and red flag, looks out of back cab, green flag in emergency ie someone in door he/she hits the red button
needs a bit of cooperation from all parties ,, second thought would the interlocking allow the guard to operate the doors from the back cab
 

20atthemagnet

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I don't think 315s have any guard's panels fitted do they?

They do..Buttons work but interlock lights wiring removed when they had a C6.

Guard has a green and red flag, looks out of back cab, green flag in emergency ie someone in door he/she hits the red button
needs a bit of cooperation from all parties ,, second thought would the interlocking allow the guard to operate the doors from the back cab

Operate the doors yes. Any indication of interlock? No. The only indication of interlock in the cab is the close door button on the desk, which will only give an indication in a "live desk" on the wrong side of the train for guard running.

Also the platform side offside window at the rear for normal running on a 315 only has a small top flap for ventilation. No way to see anything outside other than opening and closing the cab door. Wont work.

317s are still wired up for guard running and the interlock light will work from what ever cab a door key is inserted. Ironically the interlock light is still above both side drop windows and was never moved from its guard position when DOO became a thing. But that fleet is thread bare. So much so that TFL rail 315858 will be joining LO next week replace a unit lost to damage earlier last year. So not gonna happen.

By the time you do route acceptance, driver training, familiarisation, red tape etc etc the difference in inception of any outside unit will be similar to a 710 arriving so its fantasy thinking any outside units will come in. Even 387s, still a different unit. So a full course would be needed. TCMs software and location of equipment etc has changed vastly over the Electrostar life. Even the difference between a 378 and 379 is massive. 378s were different. Drivers already signed the traction and route, just not in that combination. The only logistics was removing a coach, which was back to how 378s started life before the 5 car expansions.
 
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Lukeo

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It's depressing that people don't even attempt to read even the recent pages in the thread, and wade in with this 'great idea' that clearly no one else has thought of yet :rolleyes:
You can’t seriously expect everyone to sit here reading over 1000 prior posts before posting lol. Now having to do that would be depressing.
 
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You can’t seriously expect everyone to sit here reading over 1000 prior posts before posting lol. Now having to do that would be depressing.

Not suggesting that - even a read of the last few pages would show that we've been over the 313/315 topic enough.
 

gc1982

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How is the testing going anyway? Notice a few have been out and about this week.
 

ijmad

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Reduced services on the GOBLIN this weekend. Looks like they're managing 2-3tph. Presumably a couple of the diesels are out for maintenance.
 

zebedee104

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Reduced services on the GOBLIN this weekend. Looks like they're managing 2-3tph. Presumably a couple of the diesels are out for maintenance.

There’s a reduced service every weekend, and has been since before Christmas.
 

ijmad

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There’s a reduced service every weekend, and has been since before Christmas.

Indeed, I just wondered if the 378 might have shaken up the schedule a bit, for better or worse. Is it running today or is it just the remaining 172s?
 

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