That's different - it is not possible to board a Virgin Train heading to Euston at Watford Junction as the platform staff are very strict about it - Stevenage is a pick up station for LNER towards London - but not Hull Trains (on the rare occasions they stop - eg this Sunday http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...-0159?stp=WVS&show=pax-calls&order=wtt&toc=HT)
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March 2019 Oyster Extensions Confirmed
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That's different - it is not possible to board a Virgin Train heading to Euston at Watford Junction as the platform staff are very strict about it - Stevenage is a pick up station for LNER towards London - but not Hull Trains (on the rare occasions they stop - eg this Sunday http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...-0159?stp=WVS&show=pax-calls&order=wtt&toc=HT)
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LNER won't make Stevenage pick up/set down only as they'd lose too much revenue (they've recently introduced LNER Only fares to try and bag more revenue from this flow).
The Oyster fares would be 'Any Permitted', I'm not sure you can have an Oyster fare with a 'via Hertford' routeing or 'not LNER'.
The Oyster fares would be 'Any Permitted', I'm not sure you can have an Oyster fare with a 'via Hertford' routeing or 'not LNER'.
An Oyster fare doesn't need to include operators who don't participate in the scheme. LNER can simply say they don't recognise Oyster on their services.
Is Oyster going to be valid on East Midlands Trains services to Luton Airport Parkway or just Thameslink?
Can you find me any evidence that Oyster is actually valid on Southeastern to Redhill when they are diverted that way or GWR between Redhill and Gatwick Airport? (I have 'used' Contactless between those stations on a GWR service but am not sure it is actually valid.)
bramling
Veteran Member
Not quite. The current 1tph Moorgate-Watton is unchanged, and the current 1tph Moorgate-Stevenage is cut back to Watton. The only exception is a handful of services from/to Stevenage at the start and end of service, which then go empty from/to Letchworth carriage sidings.
Yes, Oyster is valid on all trains between Redhill and Gatwick Airport, and also Southeastern between London and Redhill if diverted that way. LNER will have to accept Oyster if it is accepted for travel between Stevenage and London Kings Cross.
What are your views on the Reading question? Add in acceptance between Reading and Feltham on SWR? Reading to Redhill? Guildford?
Absolutely not. I don't see why the DfT would go there.
Reading to Redhill will be far more expensive by Oyster than the paper fares over the North Downs Line. (There is no paper fare or valid routeing between Reading and Redhill via London at present.)
Some people travelling in London with Oyster do pay more than they would have done with the paper fare structure - anyone breaking their journey, people who used to travel into London off-peak and back in the peak, some fares were cheaper on paper tickets on certain parts of the network than others - the point is that the differences are small in nominal terms and it was neutral for enough people that no one really complained.
The further out you go, the greater that differences are in nominal terms and therefore mean more to people's overall view of rail fares.
I am not trying to defend fare increases - more trying to point out that so long as some commuters see the extension of Oyster as having a broadly neutral effect on what they pay, the views of travellers at other times may not be vocal enough to be heard above the welcoming of Oyster extensions by the former group.
Not that. Cast your mind back further and at one point in time LO accepted oyster there but LM did not. That was subsequently resolved.
For the record I have boarded a VT service to auston at WFJ and noone attempted to stop me.
Wallsendmag
Established Member
LNER aren't part of the Oyster scheme have no infrastructure to handle it and unless TfL decide to pay for it have no plans to introduce it. Which would mean status quo on Oyster acceptance.
Kite159
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It will be easier to monitor if Oyster extends to Reading on GWML services only as the two lines don't come together, unlike from Stevenage to London valid via the loop as both lines come back together.
And if anybody tries have the fares set up so if someone travels from Reading and taps out at Feltham (with no other touches at card readers) to charge them as if they went Reading - Ealing Broadway - Turnham Green - Richmond - Feltham
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That, however, wasn't the driver (especially as then it would have gone to Watton-on-Stone).
Hertford has had Oyster for some time, at Hertford East. Ever since (and even before?), GN has been pushing for Oyster to Hertford. The WGC extension is presumably because they can, having got the infrastructure done behind the scenes for Luton and Hertford.
swt_passenger
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Both “lines” are within one common paid area at Reading though, and GW Redhill services can and do use the normal relief side platforms at certain times of day.
LNER can’t decline to accept routes Any Permitted tickets issued, regardless of the medium the ticket is issued on.
We went through all of this with The Key. LNER has to accept it, despite what their publicity might say.
Kite159
Veteran Member
However if the system is set up to charge the fare as via London instead of the cheaper fare via Gomsall then if anybody attempts to use oyster on a Reading - Redhill service (and doesn't get checked) could be in for a costly suprise
The guard on the train would just treat them as not having a ticket?
What happens if you try to travel from Redhill to Knockholt via Tonbridge having touched in at Redhill? You will be treated as not having a ticket. Just because Oyster is valid between two points does not mean you can go outside the validity areas. LNER / Guildford / St Albans Abbey or anywhere else in the range does not have to be valid until such time as Oyster is actually extended to those places.
MJN11
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what is the actual reason a minimum amount to be
GN services getting moved to tfl? what branded service would this be
swt_passenger
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That’s agreed. At least someone would be getting the extra fare, but I guess SWR wouldn’t see it that way...
swt_passenger
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More London Overground. It’s been on the agenda for this route for a while, especially if the next GTR franchise is split up again.
swt class 450
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So they will accept oyster and contactless to Luton Airport Parkway but not to Luton? What is reason for not extending it just a slight bit further to Luton? Luton Airport Parkway is just a suburb of Luton so it seems ridiculous not to extend it to Luton as well! What a ridiculous decision!
The limitations of Oyster, and money.
Luton is only easy to extend to if it will have the same Oyster fares as Luton AP due to the maximum number of zones already having been hit (I'd imagine all GTR stations with 'special fares' save Gatwick and Luton Airports will be zone 13, with the Airports in zone 14, because they have to piggy back on the work already done).
Plus it is not really about the places on the line, but to make it easier for Londoners to get to the airport - it's not really worth spending the money on Luton (which doesn't have Herts CC cheering for Oyster acceptance there). Just like the line to Gatwick, the convenience will cost, rather than being cheaper. Similar is likely to be true on the Elizabeth line west of Reading (especially at the closer in stations like Iver) unless they do a big rethink of how they deal with zones that TOCs, rather than TfL, set fares from.
higthomas
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Also, surely they already accept oyster given one can carry a travelcard on it? They may well simply assume it's valid, but if I'm on a Stevenage train with an Oyster card (with zones 1-6 travelcard) and a Hadley Wood to Stevenage ticket, I'd fully expect to travel without hassle. (Expect in what they should do, not what I'd think they would do.)
How is the access to platform 5 at Stevenage going to work?
I understand that the new platform will stop near the current lifts on the other platforms. So I assume the access would be from the main bridge that currently goes through the station and not via the route past the top of the stairs to platforms 3/4? If that is the case then platform 5 can have its own separate gates which are Oyster enabled for Hertford services. The main gates to platforms 1-4 would not need to accept Oyster (though may need a validator somewhere for emergency use if Hertford services use 1 or 4 for any reason)
I understand that the new platform will stop near the current lifts on the other platforms. So I assume the access would be from the main bridge that currently goes through the station and not via the route past the top of the stairs to platforms 3/4? If that is the case then platform 5 can have its own separate gates which are Oyster enabled for Hertford services. The main gates to platforms 1-4 would not need to accept Oyster (though may need a validator somewhere for emergency use if Hertford services use 1 or 4 for any reason)
ThisIsSurbiton
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Oyster fares are defined with 46 different route codes in the fares data, though, although how you are supposed to know that when you travel is anyone's guess! The top four are both flavours of Any Permitted, Not London and London Not Underground, but there are some more exotic options in there too. I do wonder how accurate the data is for these, as there is a Not Gatwick Express fare to Gatwick, but nothing more permissive, and you can definitely use PAYG on the Gatwick Express for extra £££s. (Of course, GX is not a TOC, but I don't think that matters to the point that the Oyster fare in question could be defined on the Thameslink and Great Northern flow or whatever to exclude LNER, but it is never quite 'sold' in the way that a normal ticket would be, perhaps that's what makes any LNER exclusion unworkable.)
Haywain
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If it's not accepted by EMT that would be easily controlled by virtue of them having a completely separate gateline at St Pancras.
ForTheLoveOf
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On the way north, yes, on the way south, very difficult.
The Oyster arrangements for Crossrail down the GWML still do not seem clear. So many of the passengers there are going to have Touched In at an Oyster reader, at places outside basic Zone 1 like Canary Wharf, or on other connecting Underground lines, which at the moment have no facility to do an "add on" to places like Slough. Notably, an Oyster will take you on a TfL bus out to Slough.
swt_passenger
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Stations out to Reading will be in zones up to 15, it’s covered in the first thread I linked in post #12, which then links to a TfL staff brief.
No, pretty simple - signs up at Luton Airport Parkway which say 'Oyster is not valid on EMT' and a penalty fare of £30.20 at St Pancras - presumably exactly the same as currently happens if you turn up with a ticket purchased on Easyjet at the St Pancras high level barriers. There are signs at Luton Airport Parkway to say they aren't valid on EMT.
ForTheLoveOf
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It would lead to precisely the same situation as now though. I can see no way that this solution would be accepted, when the entire point of bringing Luton Airport Parkway into the Oyster area is so that hapless tourists can't be caught out (and for reasons of convenience). As soon as you start arbitrarily restricting that to one operator or another, it's a pointless move. (And, BTW, on a weekend it's only a Penalty Fare of £21.40)
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