Brighton Main Line Closure (16 - 24 February)

RichardKing · 16 Feb 2019

So, on the first day of the blockade it seems GTR have already messed up on the replacement buses. This week saw plenty of confusion surrounding the fast buses between Brighton and Three Bridges, which usually operate on weekend line closures. Over the last few days, the Twitter team had confirmed that they would NOT be operating due to limited capacity in the Three Bridges car park and passengers would need to change at Haywards Heath, or travel by train to Lewes to connect with a RRB to Three Bridges from there.

This morning, despite GTR's insistence that there would be no direct buses, there have been reports on Twitter (e.g.

I am sat on a direct (non-stop) TBD - BTN replacement bus as I write this tweet. I’ve already tweeted you asking why staff inside TBD are being “told to keep it secret” (your station staff’s own words) when really they exist, and I haven’t had an answer.

https://twitter.com/danieljcoomber/status/1096715221987672065) that this is not the case, and the direct services have been kept secret, suggesting that the 'lack of car park space' talk is completely true.

Since the secret buses have become not so secret, it appears that GTR have now pulled these services and sent the buses empty back to the depot (

They’ve now cancelled all the direct buses and sent empty ones that had been booked back to the depot with no passengers on. Such a disgrace. I was also told by staff the direct buses were a secret.

https://twitter.com/kaya_sm22/status/1096745721846554624). Not even the station managers are aware of what's going on!

In addition to this, I'm told that passengers coming from the east towards Lewes are being put on buses to East Grinstead (which weren't meant to run until next week), causing much confusion up there!

I dread to think how the peak-times of next week will go down!

RailUK Forums

swt class 450 · 16 Feb 2019

The next nine days are going to be complete and utter chaos. Just wait until on Monday morning during the peak hour and we will really see how bad it is. Southern Rail (as usual) have planned this extremely poorly. It will be a disaster.

Bishopstone · 16 Feb 2019

I’m impacted, so I’ve been following the publicity closely - or so I thought. Nowhere had I picked-up that there were to be no direct buses between Brighton and Three Bridges.

The official explanation that running direct buses would create ‘too much traffic on the roads’ is..... interesting. Do they think we have magic carpets to use as a contingency?

There is, to be fair, a half-hourly Brighton-Victoria service via the Arun Valley, but by 10.00 this morning, this service had already seen cancellations and short formations. You would have thought that a bit of effort might have gone into ensuring this limited service operated robustly. After all, they can’t be short of trains or crew for the duration of the BML blockade.

JB_B · 16 Feb 2019

Bishopstone said:
I’m impacted, so I’ve been following the publicity closely - or so I thought. Nowhere had I picked-up that there were to be no direct buses between Brighton and Three Bridges.

Me too. I've been travelling regularly during the weekend blockades between Brighton and Three Bridges. A 45m journey with a bus every 10m has meant that it's been no great hardship so far.

Can anyone explain why this weekend's service is so vastly inferior and why this hopelessly inadequate provision hasn't been more widely publicised? NRE is showing 4 indirect bus services per hour with a journey time of 87m(!) - is that correct?

Jona26 · 16 Feb 2019

As I write this there are approx 30 empty coaches and double deckers sitting in the car park next to Crawley library so plenty of spare capacity at the moment it seems.

Dr Hoo · 16 Feb 2019

Jona26 said:
As I write this there are approx 30 empty coaches and double deckers sitting in the car park next to Crawley library so plenty of spare capacity at the moment it seems.

Is there a single or ‘lead’ operator on the rail replacement road services or is it more of an ‘anything on wheels from any Tom, Dick and Harry’ set-up managed and supervised by GTR directly?

Skimpot flyer · 16 Feb 2019

Ye gods! They’ve been publicising this blockade for months now. ‘Please plan ahead’ exhorts the voice of Geoff Marshall on every GTR train (including on trains not going into the Thameslink core). Pity that GTR don’t seem to have followed their own advice!
You’d think that, if they are diverting any trains Brighton- Littlehampton - Horsham - Three Bridges, the absolute minimum would be 12 carriage trains? Once people get to realise they can still reach London without faffing about on buses, they’ll likely opt for the extended journey time, and so you’d expect the operators to anticipate that possibility.
As for people from east of Lewes being bussed to East Grinstead... that’s not very convenient if you’re trying to get to Gatwick Airport for a flight!!

swt class 450 · 16 Feb 2019

It is just whatever buses they can find. I have been told that there are around 20 different bus operators involved in the rail replacement over the next 9 days. So there is no main lead bus operator.

Dr Hoo · 16 Feb 2019

user1234 said:
It is just whatever buses they can find. I have been told that there are around 20 different bus operators involved in the rail replacement over the next 9 days. So there is no main lead bus operator.

Thanks. That doesn’t bode well.
The Derby blockade arrangements last summer seemed to be heavily Stagecoach orientated and operated pretty well in my experience.

londonboi198o5 · 16 Feb 2019

user1234 said:
The next nine days are going to be complete and utter chaos. Just wait until on Monday morning during the peak hour and we will really see how bad it is. Southern Rail (as usual) have planned this extremely poorly. It will be a disaster.

Doubt “peak hour” will be peak hour on Monday morning as it is half term and school are off so allot of people more than likely took time off giving the disruption and schools being off.

RichardKing · 16 Feb 2019

Skimpot flyer said:
Once people get to realise they can still reach London without faffing about on buses, they’ll likely opt for the extended journey time, and so you’d expect the operators to anticipate that possibility.

Not during the week they won't! I hope GTR get their act together in the next 24 hours!

RichardKing · 16 Feb 2019

user1234 said:
It is just whatever buses they can find. I have been told that there are around 20 different bus operators involved in the rail replacement over the next 9 days. So there is no main lead bus operator.

The plan seems to include buses with Drivers who aren't familiar with the area, and who have no way (with the exception of a piece of paper with basic directions on) of navigating the roads! https://twitter.com/DanielGurr/status/1096815780413485056

Oh the @nationalrailenq replacement bus. No sat navs to the drivers and no clue where they are going. We are now 20 miles past three bridges and now another passenger has leant him his phone. Now driving a bus with a phone. Replacement bus nightmare @TLRailUK

Oh and to top it off the driver is from Portsmouth and been given an A4 piece of paper with directions on. He doesn’t no the ****ing area. Give them proper sat navs. All those days of planning are ****ed. #traindelays

RichardKing · 16 Feb 2019

One bus has already given up! https://twitter.com/DaveGander/status/1096811819207938049

Replacement bus service not doing too well either. Recovery underway at Lewes.

londonboi198o5 · 16 Feb 2019

RichardKing said:
Not during the week they won't! I hope GTR get their act together in the next 24 hours!

Why ???
It’s half term not going to be many people travelling in Monday morning. Hence why the blockade has taking place. Why do people on here always make matters sound worse than they are. Do you really think they would a large line blockade during normal traffic day/week

JB_B · 16 Feb 2019

londonboi198o5 said:
Why ???
It’s half term not going to be many people travelling in Monday morning. Hence why the blockade has taking place. Why do people on here always make matters sound worse than they are. Do you really think they would a large line blockade during normal traffic day/week

Out of interest, what percentage drop in traffic do you think would occur because it's half-term?

I don't commute regularly on the BML at the moment but I can't say I noticed any significant reduction in passengers at half-term. I don't doubt that there is some reduction and as you say the works have been scheduled accordingly. However, when you say...

"not going to be many people travelling in Monday morning"

... I suspect that you'll be proven wrong.

Bletchleyite · 16 Feb 2019

londonboi198o5 said:
Why ???
It’s half term not going to be many people travelling in Monday morning. Hence why the blockade has taking place. Why do people on here always make matters sound worse than they are. Do you really think they would a large line blockade during normal traffic day/week

In my experience, unless the BML loadings are different from the south WCML, half term gives for slightly lower loadings, but not really any lower than a typical Friday. Add to that that with academisation (though it was always true of Councils too) not everyone has the same week off.

There's no good time to do it, but the replacement has to be adequate.

londonboi198o5 · 16 Feb 2019

JB_B said:
Out of interest, what percentage drop in traffic do you think would occur because it's half-term?

I don't commute regularly on the BML at the moment but I can't say I noticed any significant reduction in passengers at half-term. I don't doubt that there is some reduction and as you say the works have been scheduled accordingly. However, when you say...

"not going to be many people travelling in Monday morning"

... I suspect that you'll be proven wrong.

Well working in the railways for 12 years I think I would know when there is a drop in passenger numbers.
So “proven wrong” I doubt it very much.

387star · 16 Feb 2019

Sounds funnier than the recent 'comedic' play I went to see at the Theatre

ctrh136 · 16 Feb 2019

I don't really understand why they got rid of the direct fast bus between BTN & TBD - trying to force people onto the train to avoid what happened at Redhill last year?

JB_B · 16 Feb 2019

londonboi198o5 said:
Well working in the railways for 12 years I think I would know when there is a drop in passenger numbers.
So “proven wrong” I doubt it very much.

I'm sure you know far more than I do. What I'm wondering is how big that drop would normally be and whether the residue could reasonably be described as "not many".

Chrisgr31 · 16 Feb 2019

The main aim of all the advance publicity etc has been to suppress demand, and that is I suspect why there are no direct buses as well. Of course if they were hoping to run an unadvertised service there is limited hope with social media and everyone wanting to give GTR a kicking for any excuse. The ironic thing is of course if users were asked to keep a direct bus secret and they haven't which has lead to their withdrawal it is to the loss of those users.

The reality is that they can never hope to run enough buses to replace the train service even with the indirect train service. Although I don't travel on the BML I am on the Uckfield Line so not far away and there is definitely a significant reduction in the number of passengers at half term, hopefully the publicity will encourage even more to stay away. I suspect the real danger is that it goes well on Monday and everyone floods back on Tuesday.

My guess would be that GoAhead would be the main bus operator, and there were certainly reports that Brighton and Hove Buses were training drivers on the route. I understand that all replacement bus drivers have been trained on the route and most have only been trained on one route to try and ensure they remember it!

JB_B · 16 Feb 2019

Chrisgr31 said:
The reality is that they can never hope to run enough buses to replace the train service even with the indirect train service.

On weekdays, maybe - we'll see. If so, perhaps a stronger and more honest message (along the lines of "only travel if absolutely necessary") would be a more sensible way to reduce demand.

That doesn't explain why this weekend's provision is so much worse than on previous weekends - they'd been coping fine up until now.

RichardKing · 16 Feb 2019

londonboi198o5 said:
Why ???
It’s half term not going to be many people travelling in Monday morning. Hence why the blockade has taking place. Why do people on here always make matters sound worse than they are. Do you really think they would a large line blockade during normal traffic day/week

The city still has to run, half term or not. Highlighting a clear level of misinformation is not making matters sound worse than they are...it's fact. Yes, us passengers (who pay for this and won't get any compensation) have had plenty of prior warning, but so has the TOC, and you would've thought the Redhill fiasco of last year would've taught them a lesson. What's the need for a slow bus, for example, from Three Bridges to Hove (taking approximately 90 minutes), when there could be a fast bus (taking 45 minutes), with passengers for Hove changing at Brighton?

Chrisgr31 · 16 Feb 2019

RichardKing said:
What's the need for a slow bus, for example, from Three Bridges to Hove (taking approximately 90 minutes), when there could be a fast bus (taking 45 minutes), with passengers for Hove changing at Brighton?

Because the additional 45 minutes the slow bus takes will put off even more potential travellers. If the bus were only 15 or 20 minutes slower than the train a lot more people would try and use it, therefore overwhelming it, and meaning large queues. My guess is Redhill demonstrated the need to suppress demand.

alistairlees · 16 Feb 2019

I suspect this is all to do with journey planners. If the bus times are sufficiently quick then they (together with connecting trains) are what will look like to passengers the optimal journeys. So those passengers will plan around those journeys. To encourage passengers to use the direct rail service it needs to look comparatively more attractive when planning a journey from Brighton to London, for example.

trainmania100 · 16 Feb 2019

I'd expect more kids to travel, eg family days out, at half term not less... I wouldn't have thought many kids would regularly get a train to school every day that must cost a bomb

tsr · 16 Feb 2019

Southern don’t really see a massive drop in passenger traffic during half term, but what does tend to happen is that the traffic is more spread out, much like the few days before Christmas. So it can be busier off-peak, but loadings and crowd control are easier to deal with on a consistent hour-by-hour basis.

As for the comment above about schoolchildren travelling by train - this doesn’t occur very much at all on the south end of the Brighton Mainline, but numerous pupils travel on pretty much the whole of the rest of the Southern network (with the exception of Milton Keynes Central to Harrow & Wealdstone as well).

yorkie · 16 Feb 2019

londonboi198o5 said:
Well working in the railways for 12 years I think I would know when there is a drop in passenger numbers.
So “proven wrong” I doubt it very much.

With all due respect, it would hardly be the first time!

trainmania100 said:
I'd expect more kids to travel, eg family days out, at half term not less...

I think a better prediction of what is likely to happen is this:

tsr said:
Southern don’t really see a massive drop in passenger traffic during half term, but what does tend to happen is that the traffic is more spread out, much like the few days before Christmas. So it can be busier off-peak, but loadings and crowd control are easier to deal with on a consistent hour-by-hour basis.

As for the comment above about schoolchildren travelling by train - this doesn’t occur very much at all on the south end of the Brighton Mainline, but numerous pupils travel on pretty much the whole of the rest of the Southern network (with the exception of Milton Keynes Central to Harrow & Wealdstone as well).

Of course some people may change travel patterns as a result of the works, and try to work from home as much as possible that week.

ianBR · 16 Feb 2019

GTR and NR never mentioned in any of the publicity that there would be no fast buses from Brighton to Three Bridges

As a result buses will now go on a tortuous route, will be full and unable to pick up at intermediate stops, and most will only have passengers wanting to go direct who are delayed unnecessarily.

The strategy seems to be make it so horrific for Brighton travellers on Monday that people then might use the 2 hour train instead.

I would have thought half term volumes wouldn’t be too different to a summer Saturday where the normal rail replacement plans work quite well with express direct buses alongside the stoppers

sarahj · 16 Feb 2019

I was about to comment and offer words of wisdom and advice. Then I read what I put and saw a P45 in my future. So, all I can say is good luck and pray I'm not saying 'I don't know, I'm sorry' all next week.
PS. I have found a plan/map, but it was already being dumped this afternoon.

Brighton Main Line Closure (16 - 24 February)

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