Stations with multiple platforms with the same number, but different faces?

Andrew Nelson · 16 Feb 2019

I have more than once had problems in Stations where despite the "number" of numbers being infinite, planners have seen fit to have a bay, and a though platform share the same number.

For example Sheffield has the through platform 2 (a & b), and also 2c as a bay (With little obvious information).

Ditto Preston with the bays 3c and 4c.

Also (at least before the latest rebuilding) Birmingham New St.

However, looking at the departure boards and map for Liverpool Lime St, I'm somewhat perplexed that there seems to be two separate Platform 1s, (surface and loop).

Surely very confusing?

Why not have Platform 1 as is, and the loop or underground as say "U" for clarity?

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Dr Hoo · 16 Feb 2019

Which map and departure board are you referring to in relation to Liverpool Lime Street?

Andrew Nelson · 16 Feb 2019

Dr Hoo said:
Which map and departure board are you referring to in relation to Liverpool Lime Street?

The one on National Rail Website.

Ianno87 · 16 Feb 2019

Stratford Platform 10/10A

Stockport Platform 3A (and formerly 2A until the late 90s)

James Heck said:
Also (at least before the latest rebuilding) Birmingham New St.

New St still has Platform 4C.

Andrew Nelson · 16 Feb 2019

Ianno87 said:
Stratford Platform 10/10A

Stockport Platform 3A (and formerly 2A until the late 90s)

New St still has Platform 4C.

Thanks, the map on NRE doesn't properly show the platform layout.

Andrew Nelson · 16 Feb 2019

Ianno87 said:
Stratford Platform 10/10A

Stockport Platform 3A (and formerly 2A until the late 90s)

New St still has Platform 4C.

I seem to remember the "Staylybridge Flyer" 101 being the only thing to use it on a regular basis.

swt_passenger · 16 Feb 2019

James Heck said:
The one on National Rail Website.

[Lime St]
That’s completely out of date anyway, since the alterations over the last couple of years?

Andrew Nelson · 16 Feb 2019

swt_passenger said:
[Lime St]
That’s completely out of date anyway, since the alterations over the last couple of years?

So, despite downloading it this morning.
It's out of date by 2 years or more?
(I did actually know that as there's no P10.

However, I was under the impression that P1 (surface)was going to (or has already) come back into use.

AMD · 16 Feb 2019

James Heck said:
However, looking at the departure boards and map for Liverpool Lime St, I'm somewhat perplexed that there seems to be two separate Platform 1s, (surface and loop).

Surely very confusing?

Why not have Platform 1 as is, and the loop or underground as say "U" for clarity?

Systems wise the low level platform is known as 'L', however by the time the data reaches passenger facing terminals (eg National Rail Enquiries) it becomes a 1. We have no end of people through the barriers looking for the Chester train at the high level platforms.

mmh · 16 Feb 2019

The National Rail Enquiries website's "live departure boards" show both the Merseyrail platform and the real platform 1 as platform 1, e.g. in this screenshot there are simultaneous departures from platform 1 at 16:28 for Alderley Edge and Chester.

swt_passenger · 16 Feb 2019

James Heck said:
So, despite downloading it this morning.
It's out of date by 2 years or more?
(I did actually know that as there's no P10.

However, I was under the impression that P1 (surface)was going to (or has already) come back into use.

IIRC the old P2 became P1 in the revised layout, and the old P1 went permanently of use, although still there it has no track.

More generally though, updating of those station drawings on the NRES site after major remodelling has been absolutely hopeless for years. This isn’t really a surprise anymore.

jopsuk · 16 Feb 2019

Stratford's 10/10A is one of the most egregious, as getting between the two requires the use of a subway. But not Subway A, as the 10A/11 "island" isn't connected to A (what with the end of 10A/11 being roughly over B)

vlad · 16 Feb 2019

Reading used to have 4A and 4B in addition to 4 (when the station was rebuilt fairly recently I think they were renumbered 5, 6 and 7 respectively). I never understood this as 4A and 4B always seemed quite separate from 4.

Milton Keynes Central still has 2A - at least this is close to 2.

Andrew Nelson · 17 Feb 2019

AMD said:
Systems wise the low level platform is known as 'L', however by the time the data reaches passenger facing terminals (eg National Rail Enquiries) it becomes a 1. We have no end of people through the barriers looking for the Chester train at the high level platforms.

I seem to remember a time when there were Chester services from the "Mainline" Platforms?

childwallblues · 17 Feb 2019

James Heck said:
I seem to remember a time when there were Chester services from the "Mainline" Platforms?

And there will be again from May when the new Lime Street to Chester via the Halton Curve service starts.

PeterC · 17 Feb 2019

We are all used to it so don't find it confusing but would you start from scratch giving the same platform two different "platform" numbers? Call them "tracks", yes but for the same platform to be "2" or "3" depending on which side the train is makes no sense at all if you think about it logically.

swt_passenger · 17 Feb 2019

vlad said:
Reading used to have 4A and 4B in addition to 4 (when the station was rebuilt fairly recently I think they were renumbered 5, 6 and 7 respectively). I never understood this as 4A and 4B always seemed quite separate from 4.

I think Reading’s earlier 4A and 4B were tacked onto the station (one at a time) after the separate Southern station closed. Presumably at that time they wanted them to be logically between 3 and 4 in south to north order across the whole station.

Replaced by (and added to) by P4, P5 and P6 in the revised layout, it is the old down main P4 that is now new P7.

swt class 450 · 17 Feb 2019

Most of the London Terminals stations have duplicated platform numbers with the National Rail platforms and the London Underground platforms each having their own set of numbers which duplicate each other.

kieron · 17 Feb 2019

James Heck said:
So, despite downloading it this morning.
It's out of date by 2 years or more?

It's just a copy of a map on the Network Rail site, one which happens to be out of date. That's why it doesn't show the lower level at all.

Sadly, there are sometimes things Network Rail could have done a bit better.

PeterC said:
We are all used to it so don't find it confusing but would you start from scratch giving the same platform two different "platform" numbers? Call them "tracks", yes but for the same platform to be "2" or "3" depending on which side the train is makes no sense at all if you think about it logically.

But then there are a few stations which have two platforms with different numbers next to one track.

61653 HTAFC · 17 Feb 2019

PeterC said:
We are all used to it so don't find it confusing but would you start from scratch giving the same platform two different "platform" numbers? Call them "tracks", yes but for the same platform to be "2" or "3" depending on which side the train is makes no sense at all if you think about it logically.

The default which has emerged over the years is to number the faces rather than the structures, in GB at least. In the US they tend to give track numbers but the European countries I've used trains in seem to use the same system we do. That's not to say there won't be exceptions in those places just as there are here.

Then we also have places like Bristol Temple Meads, where the same platform face has two numbers!

A Challenge · 17 Feb 2019

childwallblues said:
And there will be again from May when the new Lime Street to Chester via the Halton Curve service starts.

That will make confusion even worse, as they'll see a train to Chester there as well.

vlad · 17 Feb 2019

61653 HTAFC said:
The default which has emerged over the years is to number the faces rather than the structures, in GB at least. In the US they tend to give track numbers but the European countries I've used trains in seem to use the same system we do. That's not to say there won't be exceptions in those places just as there are here.

At most stations in Russia platforms are numbered and tracks are also numbered. As such, platform 2 may provide access to tracks 3 and 4.

From experience, trains are only announced as serving a specific track so it's not totally confusing.

jopsuk · 17 Feb 2019

user1234 said:
Most of the London Terminals stations have duplicated platform numbers with the National Rail platforms and the London Underground platforms each having their own set of numbers which duplicate each other.

With exceptions!
At Waterloo, the Waterloo & City line uses Platforms 25 & 26, as a legacy of its days as "mainline" operation. Similarly, at Paddington, the Hammersmith & City/Circle calls at 15/16.

Further out it becomes confusing. Eg at Seven Sisters the Victoria Line is at platforms 3, 4 & 5 but one stop up, at Tottenham Hale, it's a duplicate 1 & 2. Highbury and Islington is a hot nonsense- platforms 1,2, 7 & 8 on the surface, 3-6 below.
Stratford in this regard is sane with the Jubilee line at 13-15

M28361M · 17 Feb 2019

AMD said:
Systems wise the low level platform is known as 'L', however by the time the data reaches passenger facing terminals (eg National Rail Enquiries) it becomes a 1. We have no end of people through the barriers looking for the Chester train at the high level platforms.

Interestingly Realtime Trains shows it as "1" if you search for a date in the future but "L" if you look at today.

How easy would it be to renumber the Merseyrail platform in the railway's systems as 11 (for example) to avoid the clash? Is it a simple matter of changing some data in a computer somewhere or would there be wider ramifications for signalling systems etc, that would complicate things? Obviously new signage would be needed too.

Kite159 · 17 Feb 2019

M28361M said:
Interestingly Realtime Trains shows it as "1" if you search for a date in the future but "L" if you look at today.

How easy would it be to renumber the Merseyrail platform in the railway's systems as 11 (for example) to avoid the clash? Is it a simple matter of changing some data in a computer somewhere or would there be wider ramifications for signalling systems etc, that would complicate things? Obviously new signage would be needed too.

Or even as platform 0

DPWH · 18 Feb 2019

Or platform A, or platform Y.

AM9 · 18 Feb 2019

kieron said:
It's just a copy of a map on the Network Rail site, one which happens to be out of date. That's why it doesn't show the lower level at all.

Sadly, there are sometimes things Network Rail could have done a bit better.

But then there are a few stations which have two platforms with different numbers next to one track.

As in Penryn.

Andrew Nelson · 18 Feb 2019

kieron said:
It's just a copy of a map on the Network Rail site, one which happens to be out of date. That's why it doesn't show the lower level at all.

Sadly, there are sometimes things Network Rail could have done a bit better.

For it to not to show the low level platform because it "happens to be out of date" would mean it was over 40 years old.
I don't think it is though is it?

kieron said:
But then there are a few stations which have two platforms with different numbers next to one track.

DLR and LU have several.

But with the almost complete abolition of slam door stock on the mainline, I don't know of anywhere where it is possible to alight or board on both sides.

Andrew Nelson · 18 Feb 2019

user1234 said:
Most of the London Terminals stations have duplicated platform numbers with the National Rail platforms and the London Underground platforms each having their own set of numbers which duplicate each other.

Not at Moorgate, or Waterloo.
Or Highbury & Islington.

Groningen · 18 Feb 2019

In the Netherlands some stations have the extension A and B. On Groningen A means trains (west and north) to Leeuwarden, Eemshaven and Delfzijl, while a B means trains (east and south) to Weener, Veendam, Zwolle and further (Rotterdam and Den Haag). It seems station information can be found on: www.plattegrondstation.nl.

Stations with multiple platforms with the same number, but different faces?

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