MML Electrification: progress updates

edwin_m · 23 Feb 2019

Key points from the Modern Railways article mentioned above:

Corby trains will normally use the Fasts south of Wellingborough,
So electrification via Wymington is nominally only for diversions, and will be finished after the rest.
Braybrooke feeder isn't needed for the Corby service but will be needed once the other workings go bi-mode.
No decision yet on whether there will be wires to Braybrooke/Market Harborough or an extension lead.
Options also still being looked at on how to beef up the OLE south of Bedford for electric trains at >100mph (again this won't be needed until the bi-modes).
Cost of the project has apparently not changed in the past three years.
The scheme increases nominal freight capaity from 2TPH to 3TPH, all of which can continue via Corby and Manton if necessary (some will probably continue via Market Harborough but it doesn't say how many can do this).

RailUK Forums

edwin_m · 23 Feb 2019

THC said:
Forgive me if this has already been discussed but won't the new Corby EMU services be carting round an awful lot of fresh air while large settlements very near the railway such as Rushden and Higham Ferrers remain unserved? Seems like a missed opportunity to me. I understood that a bid was submitted to the first round of the New Stations Fund but since then have heard nothing. Any word locally?

I would guess the trains would start out from Corby fairly empty but pick up a lot of passengers at Kettering, Wellingborough and Bedford.

A station for Rushden would be half a mile from the nearest part of that town, over a mile from the centre of Rushden and two miles from Higham Ferrers, but only about two miles along the line from Wellingborough station. I imagine the reason not to build one is that at that sort of distance most passengers won't be walking to the station so they might as well go the slightly greater distance to Wellingborough.

WymoWanderer · 24 Feb 2019

edwin_m said:
A station for Rushden would be half a mile from the nearest part of that town, over a mile from the centre of Rushden and two miles from Higham Ferrers, but only about two miles along the line from Wellingborough station. I imagine the reason not to build one is that at that sort of distance most passengers won't be walking to the station so they might as well go the slightly greater distance to Wellingborough.

The problem with Wellingborough station from Rushden or Higham Ferrers is that the journey is along heavily congested roads. And then don't get started on the inflated ticket prices from Wellingborough - this is why many locals go to Bedford instead.

A parkway station at the edge of Rushden and Irchester would avoid all of those roads and would be some payback for the dreadful traffic situation we're putting up with due to the many bridge reconstruction projects going on for MML electrification.

70014IronDuke · 24 Feb 2019

louis97 said:
Scheme plans show 50mph Bedford to Sharnbrook, a mix of 50 and 75mph between Sharnbrook and Wellingborough, and 90mph most of the way between Wellingborough and Kettering, but sections of 50 and 60mph on the approaches to Wellingborough and Kettering.

Was this always the case, or has this been descoped by stealth? For example, the alignment surely would allow 90 mph between Bedford and Sharnbrook, except, perhaps, for the site of the former Oakley station?

edwin_m said:
Key points from the Modern Railways article mentioned above:

Corby trains will normally use the Fasts south of Wellingborough,

So electrification via Wymington is nominally only for diversions, and will be finished after the rest. ...

Well, I thought plans were for the Corbies to run on the slows north of Bedford - probably it was in this thread (and probably a long way back).

But if this article is accurate, it makes me wonder again if electrification and/or redoubling of the slows will not be cancelled/defrayed. Whoever heard of an (expensive) electrification scheme for diversions only in the UK?

The extra freight paths sound good, but what use are they unless the paths continue south of Bedford?

WymoWanderer said:
The problem with Wellingborough station from Rushden or Higham Ferrers is that the journey is along heavily congested roads. And then don't get started on the inflated ticket prices from Wellingborough - this is why many locals go to Bedford instead.

A parkway station at the edge of Rushden and Irchester would avoid all of those roads and would be some payback for the dreadful traffic situation we're putting up with due to the many bridge reconstruction projects going on for MML electrification.

I don't think "payback" has a line in the costings for new projects.
However, I have predicted (and continue to predict) that sooner or later a Rushden and Irchester Parkway will be built - but my guess is that it would only be on the slows, so that would depend on the slow lines being redoubled and made fit for 90 mph.

Senex · 24 Feb 2019

louis97 said:
Scheme plans show 50mph Bedford to Sharnbrook, a mix of 50 and 75mph between Sharnbrook and Wellingborough, and 90mph most of the way between Wellingborough and Kettering, but sections of 50 and 60mph on the approaches to Wellingborough and Kettering.

That sounds rather as if new work will be 75 south of Wellingborough, 90 north, but the existing two SLs to Sharnbrook and the retained section of the SL north of there will simply keep the present 50 (likewise the existing speeds between Kettering South Jn and Kettering).

LeeLivery · 24 Feb 2019

I'm surprised that the Corbies will use the fasts Bedford - Wellingborough. Are there plans for points south of Wellingborough station? Or will they continue using plats 1 & 2? As for 50mph, that's disappointing.

InTheEastMids said:
The Wellingborough East development adds a new access and car park to Wellingborough station, which will improve access from the A45/Higham Ferrers /Rushden but I haven't seen anything about new stations.

I remember reading 90 mph

They need to remember, even in Northamptonshire, not everyone can drive to the station. Once Wellingborough East is complete, it'll almost look like one "Metropolitan area" on satellite imagery, I hope public transport will match.

WymoWanderer said:
The problem with Wellingborough station from Rushden or Higham Ferrers is that the journey is along heavily congested roads. And then don't get started on the inflated ticket prices from Wellingborough - this is why many locals go to Bedford instead.

A parkway station at the edge of Rushden and Irchester would avoid all of those roads and would be some payback for the dreadful traffic situation we're putting up with due to the many bridge reconstruction projects going on for MML electrification.

Not sure if it's still the case, but I've long thought it's mad not to have a direct bus link from Wellingborough station to Irchester, Rushden, Higham, Irthlingborough and Finedon. I've got no idea whether it could make a profit but you're looking at towns & villages with around 44,000 people combined.

Class 170101 · 24 Feb 2019

edwin_m said:
Options also still being looked at on how to beef up the OLE south of Bedford for electric trains at >100mph (again this won't be needed until the bi-modes).

Only 100mph before bi-modes? So are they appearing to rule out Class 387s then?

edwin_m · 24 Feb 2019

Class 170101 said:
Only 100mph before bi-modes? So are they appearing to rule out Class 387s then?

Certainly the upgrades for more than 100mph aren't being done until after the completion of wires to Corby. However that wouldn't prevent them running a 110mph unit restricted to 100mph south of Bedford until these upgrades are complete.

class26 · 24 Feb 2019

edwin_m said:
Certainly the upgrades for more than 100mph aren't being done until after the completion of wires to Corby. However that wouldn't prevent them running a 110mph unit restricted to 100mph south of Bedford until these upgrades are complete.

Except that the timetable would require 125 mph where permitted and limited to 100 would no doubt cause problems

edwin_m · 24 Feb 2019

class26 said:
Except that the timetable would require 125 mph where permitted and limited to 100 would no doubt cause problems

I don't think there's any prospect of the Corby service using 125mph stock. The timetable is probably adaptable to either 100mph or 110mph units, as either way they would slot between a 125mph longer-distance service and a 100mph Thameslink making more stops.

InTheEastMids · 24 Feb 2019

edwin_m said:
I don't think there's any prospect of the Corby service using 125mph stock. The timetable is probably adaptable to either 100mph or 110mph units, as either way they would slot between a 125mph longer-distance service and a 100mph Thameslink making more stops.

I think the working assumption for Corby was a 350 or 387 equivalent with 110 mph capability. I think the stops at Luton (airport), Bedford and Wellingborough will be more impactful on other MML services than the 15mph deficit

Robertj21a · 25 Feb 2019

LeeLivery said:
I'm surprised that the Corbies will use the fasts Bedford - Wellingborough. Are there plans for points south of Wellingborough station? Or will they continue using plats 1 & 2? As for 50mph, that's disappointing.

They need to remember, even in Northamptonshire, not everyone can drive to the station. Once Wellingborough East is complete, it'll almost look like one "Metropolitan area" on satellite imagery, I hope public transport will match.

Not sure if it's still the case, but I've long thought it's mad not to have a direct bus link from Wellingborough station to Irchester, Rushden, Higham, Irthlingborough and Finedon. I've got no idea whether it could make a profit but you're looking at towns & villages with around 44,000 people combined.

Well, unless it's likely to make a profit then nobody will take it on. The council could support a service (but Northants CC has no money).
.

edwin_m · 25 Feb 2019

InTheEastMids said:
I think the working assumption for Corby was a 350 or 387 equivalent with 110 mph capability. I think the stops at Luton (airport), Bedford and Wellingborough will be more impactful on other MML services than the 15mph deficit

Ideally the Corby will leave St Pancras 3min behind a MML that doesn't stop south of Kettering, and with its three stops and lower top speed will reach Kettering about 3min before the next MML that sets out 12min behind it and probably only has one stop. That way there will be a good connection at Kettering between Bedford, Wellingborough and further north (and similarly southbound). This may indeed require 110mph running on the Corby, and if that isn't initially possible then an interim measure will be needed such as keeping an extra stop in the faster train. However this doesn't affect the core structure of the timetable - at either 100mph or 110mph the Corby will always be slower than the non-stop MML that precedes it and faster than the fast (but less fast) Thameslink that follows it, so it can always drop into in the gap between them.

hwl · 25 Feb 2019

LeeLivery said:
I'm surprised that the Corbies will use the fasts Bedford - Wellingborough.

Sounds like a sensible way of stopping them interacting with the TL services turning back at Bedford?

richieb1971 · 25 Feb 2019

If the Corby - STP trains are using the fasts, why electrify the slows north of Bedford? What an expensive use of nothing.

londonmidland · 25 Feb 2019

richieb1971 said:
If the Corby - STP trains are using the fasts, why electrify the slows north of Bedford? What an expensive use of nothing.

Presumably this is for when a possession/engineering works takes place on the fast lines. Better to electrify all lines rather than just the ones which are ‘mostly used’.

richieb1971 · 25 Feb 2019

Yes, but 50mph is not really suitable to keep fast line times. The services will be degraded.

londonmidland · 25 Feb 2019

Most likely to be used on Sunday's, when engineering works takes place. The timetable has plenty of slack at a lot of stations due to altered times, with some services sometimes running early. So it results in services waiting anywhere between 5 - 10 minutes at each station.

LeeLivery · 25 Feb 2019

hwl said:
Sounds like a sensible way of stopping them interacting with the TL services turning back at Bedford?

I assumed they'd be using the fasts London - Bedford North Jun/Sharnbrook Jun, and the slows north of there. Rather than using the slows from Wellingborough Junction as they currently do. Lengthening the time the Nottingham and Sheffield trains have to follow slower units seems odd when they already get held up by Thameslinks. It seems even odder to re-open Wellingborough's platform 4 with no booked services other than in diversions.

Robertj21a said:
Well, unless it's likely to make a profit then nobody will take it on. The council could support a service (but Northants CC has no money).
.

Oh, I know. It's a shame. Wellingborough had a very good bus network at one point and then funding stopped. The station is just very poorly served by buses. There are two bus routes connecting Wellingborough to Rushden, Higham and Raunds that purposely avoid the station. Diverting one route would make a bit of sense.

Dr Hoo · 25 Feb 2019

I thought that there was going to be a new ladder junction at Wellingborough South, to take trains from the reinstated Up Slow platform to the Up Fast.

adamedwards · 26 Feb 2019

Modern Railways March issue has a 6 page article on the MML. Corby trains will cross fast to slow at Wellingborough North junction and southbound slow to fast at Wellingborough South. No decision yet on electrification north of Kettering to Market Harborough, but a comment the bridges need little work. So may yet happen.

richieb1971 · 26 Feb 2019

Took these today at sharnbrook.

First is at Oakley actually, showing the bad decisions about re not realigning the old station contour of track on the slows. No wonder it's 50mph. I wonder how much of the new built 4th track will be higher speed than the pre existing 3rd track north of sharnbrook.

WymoWanderer · 27 Feb 2019

Couple of pictures showing progress on the 4th track laying to the South of Wymington.

Looking North. Original

y4mm4As7ssCK_x5z6XkTuYBDSQgqdbmHS1bXMrPXBV1YmFSN8LN8QKkbl-qJq5U-50uVx2t-q4pmIVPyIFOuzGYK5H7ycfSA3b6ByhaAhUgSbXjuqLwv26wPVyJ9TP4Ih5u0e1D1gJdVe9dWdZ6EtJJK0Pub7KwHawqDfCIs9anY8VCvKFZijtHMPHyNi1waJTNph6RxmQ1PQoCMHFTV66YhQ

Looking South. Original

y4mg8R-uTqYufIkAjoJIFQCY3xqGDEAMqgWJBvX-ZF__0op5Mw0UwzzrfOg0VOXWuvUNwARdAUJWOb95X6ixkxWBungUa2wFc0N0NUQiTLAHxK5i6tWwEdUCbyuOmcHEOJUGZNRqs0W0I-sOgs_ARHttk9xc04iOYgFxkS8OczpYjrj3i7NHbYCBodM_TI9prNSAtoswfJUA2EEHaFUQaYQng

richieb1971 · 27 Feb 2019

Makes sense why nothing was using the diversion line yesterday. All freight using P2 at Wellingborough gives indicator that nothing used relief line at all. Assume from the build thats already done that its been that way for quite a while. The relief line still looks shiny in those pics though.

themiller · 27 Feb 2019

WymoWanderer said:
The problem with Wellingborough station from Rushden or Higham Ferrers is that the journey is along heavily congested roads. And then don't get started on the inflated ticket prices from Wellingborough - this is why many locals go to Bedford instead.

A parkway station at the edge of Rushden and Irchester would avoid all of those roads and would be some payback for the dreadful traffic situation we're putting up with due to the many bridge reconstruction projects going on for MML electrification.

Piighhiijnjn
I have no idea where this came from as I have nothing to contribute to this thread - Apologies.

LeeLivery · 27 Feb 2019

Dr Hoo said:
I thought that there was going to be a new ladder junction at Wellingborough South, to take trains from the reinstated Up Slow platform to the Up Fast.

adamedwards said:
Modern Railways March issue has a 6 page article on the MML. Corby trains will cross fast to slow at Wellingborough North junction and southbound slow to fast at Wellingborough South. No decision yet on electrification north of Kettering to Market Harborough, but a comment the bridges need little work. So may yet happen.

Thanks both!

corsaVXR · 27 Feb 2019

noticed this morning some tensioning equipment has appeared on 2 of the portals south of Oakley.

londonmidland · 1 Mar 2019

Does anyone know why Twin Track Cantilevers (TTC’s) are the preferred structure over a portal on even/level four track locations?

Is it because it is simply cheaper to do it this way?

edwin_m · 1 Mar 2019

I'm assuming it's because they can be installed with a possession of two tracks and plant on only one, rather than all four and two respectively for a portal.

Ploughman · 1 Mar 2019

Why dig 2 holes or 2 Piles and erect 2 masts when you can do it in one?

MML Electrification: progress updates

Veteran Member

RailUK Forums

Veteran Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Member

Veteran Member

Member

On Moderation

Veteran Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Attachments

Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member