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Replacement of the Avantix ticket machines that Guards and RPIs have for selling tickets onboard.

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Good afternoon to all.

Some of you may remember that a few years ago all of the TOCs got rid of their Avantix machines that their Guards and RPIs had and replaced them with new ones which are basically a smartphone and a printer.

I believe that there are three different systems in place (different TOCs chose different ones) as follows:

• Atos Worldline Envoy
• Fujitsu Star
• TTK Mobile (aka Doris)

There are also two different types of ticket stock in use (different TOCs chose different ones) as follows:

• RSP9299 - normal card sized stock
• RSP9799 - massive loo roll stock

I call the new ticket stock loo roll stock as that is how massive it is! The new ticket stock is a joke!

I am wondering if anybody can please tell me which TOCs are using which systems and which ticket stocks currently? Does anyone have this information?

I have filled out the ones that i know below:

C2C
system type: ?
ticket stock: ?

Caledonian Sleeper
system type: ?
ticket stock: ?

Chiltern Railways
system type: Fujitsu Star
ticket stock: ?

Cross Country
system type: Fujitsu Star
ticket stock: ?

East Midlands Trains
system type: ?
ticket stock: ?

Eurostar
system type: ?
ticket stock: ?

Govia Thameslink Railway
system type: Atos Worldline Envoy
ticket stock: RSP9299 (normal card sized stock)

Grand Central
system type: Fujitsu Star
ticket stock: ?

Great Western Railway
system type: ?
ticket stock: ?

Greater Anglia
system type: ?
ticket stock: ?

Heathrow Express
system type: ?
ticket stock: ?

Hull Trains
system type: ?
ticket stock: ?

London North Eastern Railway
system type: TTK Mobile
ticket stock: RSP9799 (massive loo roll stock)

London Overground
system type: ?
ticket stock: ?

Merseyrail
system type: ?
ticket stock: ?

Northern
system type: Fujitsu Star
ticket stock: RSP9799 (massive loo roll stock)

Scotrail
system type: ?
ticket stock: ?

South Western Railway
system type: Atos Worldline Envoy
ticket stock: RSP9299 (normal card sized stock)

Southeastern
system type: Atos Worldline Envoy
ticket stock: RSP9299 (normal card sized stock)

TFL Rail
system type: ?
ticket stock: ?

Trans Pennine Express
system type: ?
ticket stock: ?

Transport For Wales
system type: Fujitsu Star
ticket stock: RSP9799 (massive loo roll stock)

Virgin Trains
system type: ?
ticket stock: RSP9799 (massive loo roll stock)

West Midlands Trains
system type: ?
ticket stock: ?

Can anyone please tell me what all the other ones with question marks use? Also have i gotten all the ones that i filled in correct?

It would be to make a complete list and know who is using which. Also if you know which devices (ie smartphones) that they are using then that would be interesting to know as well.

Also what was the reason that so many TOCs went for the new massive ticket stock considering that it was perfectly possible to upgrade to a new system and keep the normal card sized stock? Some TOCs have stuck with normal card sized stock so why didn't other ones do the same?

Many thanks and i look forward to your responses.
 
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sarahj

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The problem is the old stock and the printers don't mix. Jams, non issues, having to only load a few tickets at a time.
 
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The problem is the old stock and the printers don't mix. Jams, non issues, having to only load a few tickets at a time.
Interesting to hear. That doesn't sound good. They should have just kept the old Avantix machines. A lot of the Guards and RPIs who i have spoken to have said that they much preferred using the old Avantix machines.
 

Starmill

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I think that Cal Sleeper onboard tickets are not issued on RSP stock at all any more. They are literally just issued on ordinary reciept roll, like your receipt from the supermarket.

I don't know if they can still issue a period return, say, Crianlarich to Edinburgh, as they may be called upon to do as there is no way to buy a ticket at Crianlarich.
 
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I think that Cal Sleeper onboard tickets are not issued on RSP stock at all any more. They are literally just issued on ordinary reciept roll, like your receipt from the supermarket.

I don't know if they can still issue a period return, say, Crianlarich to Edinburgh, as they may be called upon to do as there is no way to buy a ticket at Crianlarich.
Thank you for the information. That is interesting to hear. I imagine this could cause problems if you bought a ticket onboard Caledonian Sleeper that included use on other TOCs as well. I imagine that a lot of staff would not be used to seeing them. Are they still using one of the main systems like Atos Worldline Envoy or Fujitsu Star or TTK Mobile or do they use a completely different one? Also do you or anyone else have a photo of these Caledonian Sleeper tickets that are issued on ordinary receipt roll?
 

sarahj

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Interesting to hear. That doesn't sound good. They should have just kept the old Avantix machines. A lot of the Guards and RPIs who i have spoken to have said that they much preferred using the old Avantix machines.
The problem was the advantix was old tech and feeling that way. I'm ok with the new tablet etc, the only thing more difficult is exchanges, Being live means paying by cards is a dream, and printing advance tickets is great as well. But the printer is weak. It feels like the cheapest pile of plastic made in some back street in china for the lowest prices, and acts like it, and it's cost me money on more than 1 occasion when it fails out in the field.
 
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The problem was the advantix was old tech and feeling that way. I'm ok with the new tablet etc, the only thing more difficult is exchanges, Being live means paying by cards is a dream, and printing advance tickets is great as well. But the printer is weak. It feels like the cheapest pile of plastic made in some back street in china for the lowest prices, and acts like it, and it's cost me money on more than 1 occasion when it fails out in the field.
That sounds quite typical of our railways. They are always trying to save money so it doesn't surprise me that they have bought poor quality printers. I have noticed that a lot of Guards and RPIs have been having problems with them. They need to invest in better quality printers. Perhaps they should order some new higher quality printers to fix these issues? Also do you find that the new machines still have the issue of printing tickets which fail to work on the ticket barriers which often happened with the Avantix machines?
 

RichT54

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When GWR were using the old machines I could almost guarantee that the ticket would be rejected at the barriers. Tickets from the new machines have a much higher success ratio. However the new machines seem more susceptible to black spots in the phone connection (e.g. between Sandhurst and Crowthorne) and are then not able to authorise card payments. They also do not seem to be very reliable, as several times the guard has told me he can't sell me a ticket because his machine is broken.
 

trentside

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East Midlands Trains are using Worldline Envoy with RSP9299 stock.

Decent machines, but issues with battery life on the Samsung S6 phones. Fortunately, while not particularly robust, the printers do offer a USB port to charge the other devices on. There are still issues with the printer jamming and errors that we had with Avantix, the number of tickets they hold is also frustratingly small on busy trains.
 

Aictos

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What do Northern Ireland Railways use as their tickets are rather similar to bus tickets when printed!
 
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When GWR were using the old machines I could almost guarantee that the ticket would be rejected at the barriers. Tickets from the new machines have a much higher success ratio. However the new machines seem more susceptible to black spots in the phone connection (e.g. between Sandhurst and Crowthorne) and are then not able to authorise card payments. They also do not seem to be very reliable, as several times the guard has told me he can't sell me a ticket because his machine is broken.
Yes i often found that the old Avantix machines would not program the information on to the magnetic strip properly so they often didn't work on any of the ticket barriers. I would say that about 50% of the time that i would get an Avantix ticket that wouldn't work on any of the ticket barriers. So this is definitely one improvement with the new machines. Although even with the new machines it does still occasionally happen.
 
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East Midlands Trains are using Worldline Envoy with RSP9299 stock.

Decent machines, but issues with battery life on the Samsung S6 phones. Fortunately, while not particularly robust, the printers do offer a USB port to charge the other devices on. There are still issues with the printer jamming and errors that we had with Avantix, the number of tickets they hold is also frustratingly small on busy trains.
Many thanks for the information.
 

Belperpete

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East Midlands Trains are using Worldline Envoy with RSP9299 stock.
As a passenger, I much prefer the old card tickets to the loo-roll type. The card tickets fit neatly in the same holder as my railcard, whereas the loo-roll type have to be folded several times to fit in the holder. There is also an issue with the new machines requiring a mobile signal in order to pay by credit card, which causes problems if the train goes into a tunnel at the wrong moment.

How much training are EMT on-board staff given with the new machines? On one trip, when I paid with rail travel vouchers, the guard used the machine to simply scan the bar-codes on the vouchers, and issued my ticket. On a subsequent trip, it took the best part of half-an-hour and the guard making numerous calls for advice, before I finally got my tickets. I did mention the machine is able to scan the voucher, but neither the guard or the person she kept phoning for advice seemed to have any clue how to do this, and she had to enter the full reference number and details of each voucher manually into the machine. It didn't help that by the time she finally worked out how to sell the ticket, she had forgotten that I had asked for a return!

On my last two trips on the Cambrian, the TfW guards have had problems with low battery on their new machines. Unfortunately, while there are USB charging points for passengers to use, the guards don't have anywhere to recharge their ticket machines.
 

cf111

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I don't know what system ScotRail use but the tickets print out very clearly on credit card sized stock.
 
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As a passenger, I much prefer the old card tickets to the loo-roll type. The card tickets fit neatly in the same holder as my railcard, whereas the loo-roll type have to be folded several times to fit in the holder. There is also an issue with the new machines requiring a mobile signal in order to pay by credit card, which causes problems if the train goes into a tunnel at the wrong moment.

How much training are EMT on-board staff given with the new machines? On one trip, when I paid with rail travel vouchers, the guard used the machine to simply scan the bar-codes on the vouchers, and issued my ticket. On a subsequent trip, it took the best part of half-an-hour and the guard making numerous calls for advice, before I finally got my tickets. I did mention the machine is able to scan the voucher, but neither the guard or the person she kept phoning for advice seemed to have any clue how to do this, and she had to enter the full reference number and details of each voucher manually into the machine. It didn't help that by the time she finally worked out how to sell the ticket, she had forgotten that I had asked for a return!

On my last two trips on the Cambrian, the TfW guards have had problems with low battery on their new machines. Unfortunately, while there are USB charging points for passengers to use, the guards don't have anywhere to recharge their ticket machines.
Yes i have found that staff training on the new machines has been poor at quite a few of the different TOCs. When these machines were first introduced there were lots of Guards and RPIs who didn't know how to use them properly. Even these days some still don't know how to use all the features. I think a lot of TOCs didn't bother to provide adequate training unfortunately.
 
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I'm not sure Merseyrail do any on board ticket sales at all these days, just PFs. So they probably don't have any.
Surely the RPIs would need a machine though to sell tickets? What if all the TVMs at a station were broken and a passenger had to board the train without a ticket? Wouldn't the RPIs sell one onboard? I thought that RPIs normally carry a ticket machine?
 

Intermodal

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Surely the RPIs would need a machine though to sell tickets? What if all the TVMs at a station were broken and a passenger had to board the train without a ticket? Wouldn't the RPIs sell one onboard? I thought that RPIs normally carry a ticket machine?
No, Merseyrail RPIs do not do this. They would instruct the person to buy at their destination (escorted, possibly) or just PF them if applicable.
 

trentside

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How much training are EMT on-board staff given with the new machines? On one trip, when I paid with rail travel vouchers, the guard used the machine to simply scan the bar-codes on the vouchers, and issued my ticket. On a subsequent trip, it took the best part of half-an-hour and the guard making numerous calls for advice, before I finally got my tickets. I did mention the machine is able to scan the voucher, but neither the guard or the person she kept phoning for advice seemed to have any clue how to do this, and she had to enter the full reference number and details of each voucher manually into the machine. It didn't help that by the time she finally worked out how to sell the ticket, she had forgotten that I had asked for a return!

Change over from Avantix to Envoy was a days training. New starters get a longer course on retail, I think it’s two weeks but it has been a long time since I did it.

Scanning vouchers and warrants is quite hit and miss, but the details can be entered manually in a couple of minutes. They are processed via the “Go to Payments” screen, where the option for warrants or RTVs can be selected.
 

Bletchleyite

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Surely the RPIs would need a machine though to sell tickets? What if all the TVMs at a station were broken and a passenger had to board the train without a ticket? Wouldn't the RPIs sell one onboard? I thought that RPIs normally carry a ticket machine?

Remember that Merseyrail has, other than past Hooton, all stations staffed for the full period of service, so the prospect of an outage is much lower. Very, very rare to get to a Merseyrail station with the ticket office closed, and if it is "pay at your destination" is the norm.

Pre PFs they used to have people selling tickets south of Hooton but they don't any more.
 

RPI

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When GWR were using the old machines I could almost guarantee that the ticket would be rejected at the barriers. Tickets from the new machines have a much higher success ratio. However the new machines seem more susceptible to black spots in the phone connection (e.g. between Sandhurst and Crowthorne) and are then not able to authorise card payments. They also do not seem to be very reliable, as several times the guard has told me he can't sell me a ticket because his machine is broken.
The reason that the Avantix didn't have connection issues is because it was an offline system, it didn't connect to the internet for card authorisation which was it's main Achilles heel, the TOC'S were getting a ridiculous amount of chargebacks from dodgy cards. I've used SPORTIS, Avantix and now Star and although star still has an awful lot of flaws it's still better in most cases than Avantix, it's less bulky for starters.
 
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