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West Lothian buses

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FlybeDash8Q400

FlybeDash8Q400

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TheEastCoaster said:
I did get that part, like I know it doesn’t extend to Bathgate anymore, I mind there was alsp a service that ran to Queensferry Tesco too, and the 21a to Edinburgh Parn which is what the 275 replaced if I’m correct?
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The 275 and 21A are/were quite different. The 275 didn't directly replace anything, it was kind of a new route from Scratch. It was the 22A that went to Ferrymuir. First replaced the 21A with a more simplified route in the 600. The biggest point of First's changes were to simplify things, getting rid of the stuff that really didn't need to be there from their perspective, which is exactly what they did
 
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tbtc

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TheEastCoaster said:
A bit of topic but before the new network revamp last year, was the 25 Route still there but under a different number? like how the 27/28 became the 23/X23? I remember someone saying how the old 20 is like the currently X18, but what about the 21/22? where did they go and we’re they popular? I understand the revamp was done because some of these old routes weren’t doing so well so I’m just curious in a great debt as to why?
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Good point.

I'm of the opinion that there are only a few routes from Edinburgh to Livingston and a few routes from Livingston to Bathgate (Blackridge)/ Harthill/ Fauldhouse.

Most West Lothian services boil down to one or a combination of these.

So you had Edinburgh - A71 - Livingston - Harthill which was the 271 then the 27 then the D27 then replaced by Edinburgh - A8 - Livingston - Harthill which was the 12.

Once upon a time, most services were numbers in the two hundred range but then the Edinburgh - Bathgate services were 16/17/18... then there was a flirtation with "Diamond" routes (hence the "D"27)... then around the millennium First brought all of the numbers down (e.g. the 198/199 circular became the 5/6).

That made sense when you had two strong corridors in the 16 and 27, base other route numbers around these, fair enough. Hence the 77 ( Falkirk - Bathgate) becoming the 29 when extended to Livingston, alongside the 27/28 from Bathgate to Livingston). Simple.

But then they've chopped and changed the routes several time since so that Newbridge - Livingston - goes from being the 284 to the 12 to the 12/16 to the 21/22 to the 24/25... (and switched west of Livingston to serve Deans/ Bathgate/ Whitburn etc at various times)... it's no wonder passengers have got confused over the years, when the same basic routes are renumbered time and time again, and the routes either side of Livingston are switched.

It's like a juggling act, to hide the fact that you are making some cuts, pretend that you are replacing services with new routes (which might not be quite as frequent).

This is one reason I can see the logic in Lothian's numbers, going back to what once was. The problem is that I don't know how many fare paying passengers (i.e. not those with free passes) will remember routes like the 281 from the 1990s.
 
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tbtc said:
This is one reason I can see the logic in Lothian's numbers, going back to what once was. The problem is that I don't know how many fare paying passengers (i.e. not those with free passes) will remember routes like the 281 from the 1990s.
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Taking numbers back is one thing thinking the lay out and geography of West Lothian is in any way similar to the days of Diamond service on A71 corridor or 16/17/18 on Corstorphine corridor would be and is a massive error on judgement .
The whole geographical and dynamics of the county has altered in so many villages ,mostly now ghost towns in terms of shopping and employment and the need for people of WL to go to Edinburgh for retail employment has changed dramatically.The other massive error is to try and take routes around housing schemes as was case many years ago when not many had cars ,that is very limited appeal financially in that notion and delays ,incidents etc will outweigh anything else in taking buses into these areas.
 
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I still think the oversimplified fare structures are causing a lot of the problems. To go from Kirknewton to Deans (over an hour) is £1.70 but Kirknewton or Wilkieston to Herriot Watt (under 15mins) is £3.70. Similarly Broxburn to Kirkton is £1.70, Broxburn to RBS Gogarburn is £3.70.

They should introduce Fare Stages similar to what LB used to have rather than Fare Zones.
 
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TheEastCoaster

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LiviCrazy said:
I still think the oversimplified fare structures are causing a lot of the problems. To go from Kirknewton to Deans (over an hour) is £1.70 but Kirknewton or Wilkieston to Herriot Watt (under 15mins) is £3.70.
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That’s the logistics of Lothian fare zones, seems they expect more folk to buy daytickets than singles, they do something similar with the 124. Longniddry to Aberlady £2.70 (under 10 minutes) but then Aberlady to Dirlton £1.70 (20 minuted), however in my opinion Kirknewton to Deans for £1.70 sounds pretty generous giving how big West Lothian is, though £3.70 from Kirknewton to Herriot Watt is pretty crazy, makes more sense from Livingston but not Kirknewton which is only just down the road.

I don’t see them tweaking the fare structure unless they do it with East Coast Buses too, however I wish they could be more public about the cheaper fare with the ridacard, as the only way you can find that out is via Twitter if you ask them, maybe even a Facebook post would be nice or something on the website. Honestly only having to pay 1.70 bothways to Livingston with a ridacard is too good for folk not to know.
 
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overthewater

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It's the reason why the fare stage was changed to be right bang in the middle of the Tesco warehouse. Herriot watt may will go the same way...................

I wouldn't buy LCB day/weekly/monthly ticket because there are such poor value...
 
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Given that they seem to basing their Centre of operations from Livingston should the fare zones not work from there rather than Edinburgh. Over half the routes don’t go to Edinburgh City Centre, so surely not directly comparable to East Coast.
 
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TheEastCoaster said:
That’s the logistics of Lothian fare zones, seems they expect more folk to buy daytickets than singles, they do something similar with the 124. Longniddry to Aberlady £2.70 (under 10 minutes) but then Aberlady to Dirlton £1.70 (20 minuted), however in my opinion Kirknewton to Deans for £1.70 sounds pretty generous giving how big West Lothian is, though £3.70 from Kirknewton to Herriot Watt is pretty crazy, makes more sense from Livingston but not Kirknewton which is only just down the road.

I don’t see them tweaking the fare structure unless they do it with East Coast Buses too, however I wish they could be more public about the cheaper fare with the ridacard, as the only way you can find that out is via Twitter if you ask them, maybe even a Facebook post would be nice or something on the website. Honestly only having to pay 1.70 bothways to Livingston with a ridacard is too good for folk not to know.
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The cheaper fare of £1.70 in remote zones by using a Ridacard seems a rather informal arrangement so maybe that's why it isn't widely publicised. I'd say it's technically wrong other than at Tesco Distribution Centre where the stop is clearly shown on the X18 timetable as being in both zones (and you can't get there on a Ridacard anyway). For other locations the boundary falls between two stops, so your Ridacard finishes at the last stop before you cross the border into the next zone. My take on this is that passengers should really pay for two zones or walk across the zone bounday and catch the next bus. Obviously this might not go down well from a PR point of view and should only apply to a small number of people, so it seems easier to let people away with paying only £1.70. It's not as if they're depriving anyone else of a space on the bus.
 
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overthewater

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Where are all these spare buses? We're been told if one comes in late a spare bus would cover. Also why not stop both at Marbury and get one turned at pc world.

Lothian are starting to see its not as easy.....
 
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overthewater said:
Where are all these spare buses? We're been told if one comes in late a spare bus would cover. Also why not stop both at Marbury and get one turned at pc world.

Lothian are starting to see its not as easy.....
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Certainly not easy and most certainly a completely different geographical problem to running buses within the city .
 
Driver362

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Traffic was brutal this morning that's for sure ,well done to first for not having 38's etc all running together ,they must know a short cut
 
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TheEastCoaster

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Was on an X28 yesterday at Sighthill (only for two stops) it was heading Edinburgh bound and it was probably the most busiest I’ve seen the bus, top deck was filled and bottom deck had a few spaces but still, it was also peak time mind you, half 5-6ish. I’ve seen a few busy X27/X28’s but not almost full, seemed kinda surreal honestly, also surprising it was on an Edinburgh bound bus and not a Bathgate bound bus
 
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overthewater

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LCB seems to be picking up alot of local passengers because its limited stop into and out of the city. What a surprise lothian put on Faster service and passengers make the jump... :E
 
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overthewater said:
LCB seems to be picking up alot of local passengers because its limited stop into and out of the city. What a surprise lothian put on Faster service and passengers make the jump... :E
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I got on at Sighthill burtons when it was already partially full, unless the Herriot Watt students actually walk down to catch the X27/X28 then that would explain a lot, or the folk at Hermiston P&R who want to save time getting to town.

Also the new Lothian Country garage is said to be based in the Deans area and will have new buses when they move at the end of March, when phase 4 commences
 
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TheEastCoaster said:
I got on at Sighthill burtons when it was already partially full, unless the Herriot Watt students actually walk down to catch the X27/X28 then that would explain a lot, or the folk at Hermiston P&R who want to save time getting to town.

Also the new Lothian Country garage is said to be based in the Deans area and will have new buses when they move at the end of March, when phase 4 commences
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Heard that today that Mr Hall has announced work is to begin on it and it will be operational by March 31st ,maybe one of their staff on here will confirm it.
Guessing if it's Deans it will be the old council recycling place ,that would be a shock to everyone (Or maybe not ) :)
 
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Regarding the new depot. If, & I say if, it is indeed the old West Lothian Council depot at Deans, they might want to evict the travellers first, that have very recently set up camp there.
Quite a few by the looks of it.

Sorry to go off topic, but I thought it was worth a mention.
 
Driver362

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Brand new ,and yes deans , believe work will commence mon next week , new buses to be same length as ecb ones , though there keeping hush as exactly what they are , they are believed to be adl/Volvo for what it's worth I have chatted to mr hall several times and found him to be a very amiable chap and very approachable , I find it strange people Abel to comment on someone's sense of humour who in all likelihood have never even seen him never mind spoken to him ! And probably never will .......
 
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Driver362 said:
Brand new ,and yes deans , believe work will commence mon next week , new buses to be same length as ecb ones , though there keeping hush as exactly what they are , they are believed to be adl/Volvo for what it's worth I have chatted to mr hall several times and found him to be a very amiable chap and very approachable , I find it strange people Abel to comment on someone's sense of humour who in all likelihood have never even seen him never mind spoken to him ! And probably never will .......
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Driver362 said:
Brand new ,and yes deans , believe work will commence mon next week , new buses to be same length as ecb ones , though there keeping hush as exactly what they are , they are believed to be adl/Volvo for what it's worth I have chatted to mr hall several times and found him to be a very amiable chap and very approachable , I find it strange people Abel to comment on someone's sense of humour who in all likelihood have never even seen him never mind spoken to him ! And probably never will .......
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Well Said
 
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Driver362 said:
Brand new ,and yes deans , believe work will commence mon next week , new buses to be same length as ecb ones , though there keeping hush as exactly what they are , they are believed to be adl/Volvo for what it's worth I have chatted to mr hall several times and found him to be a very amiable chap and very approachable , I find it strange people Abel to comment on someone's sense of humour who in all likelihood have never even seen him never mind spoken to him ! And probably never will .......
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Try upsetting him by posting a funny in a private group chat and you shall see how "approachable " he is ! For what its worth .
 
tbtc

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In Focus said:
Try upsetting him by posting a funny in a private group chat and you shall see how "approachable " he is ! For what its worth .
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Try slagging off your boss online and see how approachable they are!

It'd be the same in any company - you used to be able to get away with messroom banter (as that left no trace) but when it's written down online then it's quantifiable and therefore something that the terms of conduct that you signed up to will have specifically addressed.

I don't b-tch about my job online because you never know who's watching/reading - same goes for everyone else.

It might be a private group chat, but you never know which of your colleagues is clipe-ing on you - it's not like other bus companies boast about having employees who moan about the organisation online - same rules for everyone.
 
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overthewater

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https://www.theedinburghreporter.co...e-their-west-lothian-operation-in-livingston/

At £700'000 I can't see Lothian making a profit now.

A former council depot in Livingston is to become the new base for Lothian Country buses in West Lothian – bringing new money and jobs to the town. West Lothian Council’s Executive Committee approved plans to sell the vacant depot in Nairn Road in Deans to Lothian Country for £700,000, subject to final agreement and approval. The 3.6 acre site was formerly home to a fleet depot, waste transfer station and associated offices before services were re-located to the new Whitehill Service Centre in Bathgate. The move is part of the Council’s strategy of modernising depots and stores to improve service delivery, improve working standards and reduce building maintenance and heating costs.

Cllr-Lawrence-Fitzpatrick-Ward-4-Livingston-South.jpg

Lawrence Fitzpatrick
Cllr Lawrence Fitzpatrick, Livingston South ©West Lothian Council
West Lothian Council Leader Lawrence Fitzpatrick said: “I’m delighted to approve the sale of the former Deans depot sale to Lothian Country. “It’s fantastic to see Lothian Country demonstrate their commitment to West Lothian and their expanding bus network here by establishing a permanent base locally, bringing over 120 jobs and an estimated £6 million investment with them. “The move is part of our ongoing strategy to modernise our depots to help improve delivery of services and working conditions for our staff. As well as saving money on maintenance, the income received from the sale of the depots like Deans will contribute to the cost of Whitehill Service Centre.

“We recently agreed to sell the Waverley Street depot in Bathgate for social housing, so it’s great to see sites we no longer require being brought back into productive use so quickly.”
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tbtc

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overthewater said:
https://www.theedinburghreporter.co...e-their-west-lothian-operation-in-livingston/

At £700'000 I can't see Lothian making a profit now.
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You know the way accounts work though?

It's not like the £700,000 has to be accounted for in one go - it's a long term investment - it's an asset that they will be able to sell in future (maybe for slightly more, maybe for slightly less, but certainly has some resale value) - it's something that will remove the costs and complications of a lot of dead mileage - it may even be part of a longer term plan to shift more "west of Edinburgh" work out there, given the limitations on the current depots - it's probably no further from South Queensferry as Longstone is - given running on the M8 (instead of waiting at Gogar) it might be faster to get to/from Edinburgh Airport (than Longstone).

Compared to what they are spending on the E400XLBs, it's really not a huge cost.
 
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