Stopping short on an Advance ticket

tom73 · 5 Mar 2019

I know it is not allowed, but exactly what would happen if I alighted at Wakefield Westgate on a Doncaster-Leeds ticket and tried to leave the station.
What I would be hoping to do is head over to the bus station to take a 110 bus which drops me much closer to my actual destination in Leeds. My bad for not thinking of it when booking the rail ticket.

RailUK Forums

221129 · 5 Mar 2019

tom73 said:
I know it is not allowed, but exactly what would happen if I alighted at Wakefield Westgate on a Doncaster-Leeds ticket and tried to leave the station.
What I would be hoping to do is head over to the bus station to take a 110 bus which drops me much closer to my actual destination in Leeds. My bad for not thinking of it when booking the rail ticket.

If there are barriers then they won't let you out.

Kite159 · 5 Mar 2019

If the barriers are in operation, then the gateline staff could sell you a ticket which is valid for exiting the station at Wakefield, i.e. a standard off-peak/anytime single (depending on time of day).

yorkie · 5 Mar 2019

tom73 said:
I know it is not allowed, but exactly what would happen if I alighted at Wakefield Westgate on a Doncaster-Leeds ticket and tried to leave the station.
What I would be hoping to do is head over to the bus station to take a 110 bus which drops me much closer to my actual destination in Leeds. My bad for not thinking of it when booking the rail ticket.

Unless there is evidence of an attempt to gain a cheaper fare, staff are instructed to let you exit, this is due to the rail industry being brought into disrepute by at least three train companies (SWT, GWR and whoever ran the ICEC franchise at the time) when some customers were incorrectly charged new fares several years ago, which caused a media storm at the time.

However the rules do allow for you to be charged an excess fare, priced as the difference between the price you paid and the price of the cheapest ticket that would have been valid for your journey, though many issuing systems are not actually capable of charging such an excess fare.

Kite159 said:
If the barriers are in operation, then the gateline staff could sell you a ticket which is valid for exiting the station at Wakefield, i.e. a standard off-peak/anytime single (depending on time of day).

You mean an excess to such a ticket.

Kite159 · 5 Mar 2019

yorkie said:
Unless there is evidence of an attempt to gain a cheaper fare, staff are instructed to let you exit.

However the rules do allow for you to be charged an excess fare, priced as the difference between the price you paid and the price of the cheapest ticket that would have been valid for your journey, though many issuing systems are not actually capable of charging such an excess fare.

You mean an excess to such a ticket.

Assuming you get a member of staff who knows how to do the excess, and is willing to do it if the passenger holds a Northern Only advance ticket.

(Most likely the fare from Doncaster to Wakefield will be the same as it would have been for Doncaster - Leeds so the railway wouldn't have lost out on any money, where they might have gained a few pence)

yorkie · 5 Mar 2019

Kite159 said:
Assuming you get a member of staff who knows how to do the excess, and is willing to do it if the passenger holds a Northern Only advance ticket

If it's not possible to make a charge in accordance with NRCoT, surely no charge should be made.

sheff1 · 5 Mar 2019

Nobody can say exactly what would happen. If you alighted there every day for a week a different thing could happen every time.

Wallsendmag · 6 Mar 2019

Kite159 said:
If the barriers are in operation, then the gateline staff could sell you a ticket which is valid for exiting the station at Wakefield, i.e. a standard off-peak/anytime single (depending on time of day).

LNER Gateline staff don't sell tickets. there is however a TVM located on the platform side of the gateline.

island · 6 Mar 2019

In all likelihood you would be able to continue on your way.

In theory you could be charged an excess fare to the cheapest walk-up ticket for the journey you had made which would have allowed you to finish your journey early.

In the extreme case if you intentionally buy an advance ticket for a longer journey because it’s cheaper, you could be prosecuted.

ForTheLoveOf · 6 Mar 2019

Wallsendmag said:
LNER Gateline staff don't sell tickets. there is however a TVM located on the platform side of the gateline.

What would they do then, if the passenger wanted to use a payment method the barriers didn't accept (e.g. RTVs)?

Bletchleyite · 6 Mar 2019

ForTheLoveOf said:
What would they do then, if the passenger wanted to use a payment method the barriers didn't accept (e.g. RTVs)?

When I did that at Euston (Bletchley ticket office was closed) I was sent to the ticket window and asked to pass the outward portion back to them once I had paid. As I'm well behaved I did so, but it would have been easy just to walk off.

There is an excess fares window but it's rarely in use.

Wallsendmag · 6 Mar 2019

ForTheLoveOf said:
What would they do then, if the passenger wanted to use a payment method the barriers didn't accept (e.g. RTVs)?

mmmm barriers that accept vouchers, there's one for the innovation team. No LNER barriers accept any kind of payment.

island · 6 Mar 2019

Wallsendmag said:
mmmm barriers that accept vouchers, there's one for the innovation team. No LNER barriers accept any kind of payment.

There’s probably some pedantry to go in here about Kings Cross accepting contactless cards xD

Wallsendmag · 6 Mar 2019

island said:
There’s probably some pedantry to go in here about Kings Cross accepting contactless cards xD

They aren't owned by LNER yet though

Starmill · 6 Mar 2019

I assume that the obvious thing for them to do is open the gate and send the customer to the ticket office. Let's not make a mountain out of a molehill here.

Starmill · 6 Mar 2019

sheff1 said:
Nobody can say exactly what would happen. If you alighted there every day for a week a different thing could happen every time.

In my experience there have been many times recently when those gates have just been left open, even on weekday daytimes and afternoon peak.

Bantamzen · 6 Mar 2019

tom73 said:
I know it is not allowed, but exactly what would happen if I alighted at Wakefield Westgate on a Doncaster-Leeds ticket and tried to leave the station.
What I would be hoping to do is head over to the bus station to take a 110 bus which drops me much closer to my actual destination in Leeds. My bad for not thinking of it when booking the rail ticket.

Just thinking out loud here, but if your plan is to use the 110, the walk between Wakefield Westgate & the bus station is not much shorter than Leeds to the bus station. So would it not be quicker to travel to Leeds as planned & get the 110 from there?

jednick · 7 Mar 2019

I'd like to know, regarding cutting the journey short on an Advance ticket. - What are the rules if a passenger is taken ill and has to cut the journey short?

route:oxford · 7 Mar 2019

jednick said:
I'd like to know, regarding cutting the journey short on an Advance ticket. - What are the rules if a passenger is taken ill and has to cut the journey short?

Forget rules, it doesn't matter where you are, no-one wants to deal with the mess of explosive diarrhea or projectile vomit.

As for stopping short, you wouldnt believe the number of times nobody has blinked an eye that I've left Waverley without continuing my journey to Croy or Shawfair.

Or I've disembarked at Gleneages or Dunblane instead of using my £5 fare all the way to Perth.

island · 7 Mar 2019

Whilst the TOC could charge them an excess to the cheapest ticket that would have allowed them to make the journey, few would risk the bad publicity.

Silverdale · 7 Mar 2019

Such a journey could be said to have been abandoned due to unforeseen circumstances, rather than intentionally stopped short. It would take a pretty desperate TOC to want to argue the case where it was one of genuine accident or illness.

Stopping short on an Advance ticket

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