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Greater Anglia 2019 - What could possibly go wrong?

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RailWonderer

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Was on a 360 this week, graffiti at the front (although when you see it once you never see it again, they wash it off fast) the inside loo was full of graffiti and the floor was watery (we know what that is), so was the carpet and the overhead air con unit, all mossy.
379s are still fine but some 90s and a 360 diagram were subbed for a 321 today.
The 90s windows are shamefully ditrty, it makes me honestly embarrassed to be a GEML user. It’s awful and the new trains are so delayed GA should keep up to the existing feet better.
 
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dk1

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Was on a 360 this week, graffiti at the front (although when you see it once you never see it again, they wash it off fast) the inside loo was full of graffiti and the floor was watery (we know what that is), so was the carpet and the overhead air con unit, all mossy.
379s are still fine but some 90s and a 360 diagram were subbed for a 321 today.
The 90s windows are shamefully ditrty, it makes me honestly embarrassed to be a GEML user. It’s awful and the new trains are so delayed GA should keep up to the existing feet better.
Only the Bombardier ones are delayed. The 90s & IC fleet are starting to get cleaned again externally but will take time. Still very much a building site at Crown Point.
 

Alfie1014

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GA have tweeted out a response to a question this morning that the new trains (no type mentioned) are expected by the end of the year. Make of that what you want!
 

F Great Eastern

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Just to confirm word from GA that there are no delays on the Aventra trains and they are expected to enter service on time, that's the official line so it must be true.
 

LAX54

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Only the Bombardier ones are delayed. The 90s & IC fleet are starting to get cleaned again externally but will take time. Still very much a building site at Crown Point.

The ones cleaned by hand do look rather smart :)
 

HH

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Just to confirm word from GA that there are no delays on the Aventra trains and they are expected to enter service on time, that's the official line so it must be true.
Yep. No news is good news. Just ask the Right Honorable C. Grayling, MP.
 

Wivenswold

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https://www.suffolkchamber.co.uk/media/44250/2017-04-04-jd-aga-to-tib.pdf

Hmmmm. Page 13...

Class 720/5
"Type Testing - Spring to December 2018
Acceptance & Introduction to service - Early 2019 - December 2019. "

Class 720/1
"Acceptance & Introduction to service - Late 2019 - May 2020. "

Further evidence of the new trains not being on time is that the stickers with the Class 720s "coming in 2019" appear to have disappeared, GA have removed their original timeline on their website which promised we will be able to ride on an Aventra in February/March 2019 and the Stadlers from May 2019 and....er...they're not in service. Even some earlier on-line articles from 2016 appear to have been altered, not that I'm paranoid.

I don't have a problem with the lateness, it's just the Trumpian attempt to cover up reality. Shame on you GA.
 

Class 170101

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The problem with the lateness will be PRM regulations

Derogations or not? No news yet as far as I know.
 

F Great Eastern

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The exact line I was given was "“We are not facing any delays but we are watching the situation and are in regular contact with Bombardier.”

They have been spewing the same to the press for the last month and it screams of face saving and waiting for a moment to bury bad news, perhaps tying the delay of the trains into an announcement about re-negotiation of the franchise?
 

samuelmorris

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The exact line I was given was "“We are not facing any delays but we are watching the situation and are in regular contact with Bombardier.”

They have been spewing the same to the press for the last month and it screams of face saving and waiting for a moment to bury bad news, perhaps tying the delay of the trains into an announcement about re-negotiation of the franchise?

Yeah customer-friendly PR has never been Abellio's strong suit unfortunately. Likewise, as long as a (necessary) derogation is granted for the legacy fleet, the new stock being late isn't insurmountable, I'm still confident the 720s will be largely in service before Crossrail opens, but then that isn't saying much!

Stating 'we are not facing any delays' when already at least 10 months behind schedule is well, an outright falsehood.
 

Bikeman78

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The exact line I was given was "“We are not facing any delays but we are watching the situation and are in regular contact with Bombardier.”

They have been spewing the same to the press for the last month and it screams of face saving and waiting for a moment to bury bad news, perhaps tying the delay of the trains into an announcement about re-negotiation of the franchise?
I won't be surprised if the 720s don't carry a passenger this year. All new trains start running later than planned. The least problematic I can think of are the 350s and 450s.
 

samuelmorris

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I won't be surprised if the 720s don't carry a passenger this year. All new trains start running later than planned. The least problematic I can think of are the 350s and 450s.
I'm inclined to agree. It's possible a very small number of units might be around by December, but 2020 is certainly when the fleet will start being deployed in any significant number (enough to withdraw old stock from the fleet). As for 450s, it wasn't my area back then, but I'm sure I recall people sharing some anecdotes about having a lot of issues with them when they were first introduced.
 

F Great Eastern

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Yeah customer-friendly PR has never been Abellio's strong suit unfortunately. Likewise, as long as a (necessary) derogation is granted for the legacy fleet, the new stock being late isn't insurmountable, I'm still confident the 720s will be largely in service before Crossrail opens, but then that isn't saying much!

Stating 'we are not facing any delays' when already at least 10 months behind schedule is well, an outright falsehood.

Unfortunately AGA have a habit of this, the interview with the MD in the local press a few weeks ago was stretching the truth and contained no little amount of spinning and attempting to take credit for some things that they hadn't even done but someone else did. Abellio started off like a breath of fresh air when they took over from National Express but they seem to be increasingly in their own world and all style and very little in the way of substance. The can, can only be kicked down the road so far.

Considering all the issues with Scotrail whilst Abellio are calling Scotland's Best Ever Railway, it's difficult to not come to the conclusion that the bid managers, marketing managers and those who know the theory of everything but the practice of nothing have way too much influence in that company and seem to be in something of a bubble. The reports on this forum previously that the operations staff were not consulted on the operational side of the bids, by a bid team who had little operational experience just underlines this further.

If the rumoured legal challenge by Greater Anglia over the DFT is as serious as some are reporting, if GA have wised up to the issues their bid faces overall, this might be used as leverage in order to try and resolve some other issues with the franchise by forcing derogations as part of any settlements and burying the later introduction of the trains as part of a renegotiated contract. It would be a convenient way to save face and not have to take a full public hit for an over ambitious bid that cannot be delivered on time.
 
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F Great Eastern

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What is going on this morning by the way, virtually the whole of West Anglia trains are 4 cars? Seems to be effecting 317s and 379s. Between 11am and 1pm alone there are 22 short forms showing up on Journeycheck at half length which is a bit crazy.

I noticed a lot of the 317s have been de-branded this week, is this some kind of psychological trick to try and make people think that the 720s are indeed on time and indeed coming soon?
 

HH

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Possibly there will be virtual 720s - their will be a holographic representation of a 720 overlaid on the 317s. Well, it's only a step on from the "Pretendalino".
 

321446

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The cynic in me takes the facts that we have been the subject of a rebrand "Hare today...gone tomorrow" "**it's Happening", new uniforms are on order (they won't fit or be comfortable, but they are on order), and there has been a "major internal organisation to help us focus on our goals".....so keys handed back by the end of the year or summer?

Add in the delays to the promised rolling stock, the Sims having issues due to payment technicalities adding to the lack of volunteers to become trainers on new units meaning that any training is a looking way ahead.

But They keep telling us that as long as we focus on how much each delay costs and work on reducing sick leave, everything will be fine .

As I said, cynical view .
 

vinnym70

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Pretty sure I remember an AGA promise of equipping all staff with a red Blackberry to ensure better communication of issues when they arose. Not that I've looked but two things.... Blackberrys now seem to be a thing of world's long gone and I've never seen a red device in the hands of any staff. In fact the initial promises were so vague that even recently the twitter team are telling passengers that drivers can't have access to devices that might help explain delays because of their role being safety critical. I get the safety critical role and I really don't want my driver playing Candy Crush as he's driving (or whatever) but the vague promises from earlier in the franchise are coming back cause hurt.

It still remains an issue that drivers seem the last to know details about delays when they happen yet on DOO services passengers (like me) think drivers should be the first to know.
 

dk1

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Pretty sure I remember an AGA promise of equipping all staff with a red Blackberry to ensure better communication of issues when they arose. Not that I've looked but two things.... Blackberrys now seem to be a thing of world's long gone and I've never seen a red device in the hands of any staff. In fact the initial promises were so vague that even recently the twitter team are telling passengers that drivers can't have access to devices that might help explain delays because of their role being safety critical. I get the safety critical role and I really don't want my driver playing Candy Crush as he's driving (or whatever) but the vague promises from earlier in the franchise are coming back cause hurt.

It still remains an issue that drivers seem the last to know details about delays when they happen yet on DOO services passengers (like me) think drivers should be the first to know.
Oh my that was a long while ago. I'm struggling to remember what a Blackberry looks like. Drivers are on the second issue of Samsung tablets but can only be used for driving advisory reasons in the cab. Any info is passed on through general broadcasts via signallers on GSMR. Conductors all have smart phones.
 

vinnym70

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Oh my that was a long while ago. I'm struggling to remember what a Blackberry looks like. Drivers are on the second issue of Samsung tablets but can only be used for driving advisory reasons in the cab. Any info is passed on through general broadcasts via signallers on GSMR. Conductors all have smart phones.

So.... what has happened in the franchise to get better info to passengers on DOO services? I'm not trying to be divisive here but if folks in the train (on twitter, etc) know more than the driver then that conveys a really difficult message. I get that the promises at the start of the franchise might have been oversold but I haven't seen a climb-down. Surely it's always better to accept defeat? Or maybe I just read the releases at the time to cover what I wanted - possible but unlikely? :)
 

dk1

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So.... what has happened in the franchise to get better info to passengers on DOO services? I'm not trying to be divisive here but if folks in the train (on twitter, etc) know more than the driver then that conveys a really difficult message. I get that the promises at the start of the franchise might have been oversold but I haven't seen a climb-down. Surely it's always better to accept defeat? Or maybe I just read the releases at the time to cover what I wanted - possible but unlikely? :)
Nothing is going to change with driver access to mobile devices whilst in the cab. Perhaps the new trains will offer better features where control can pass messages to individual trains or as a group via voice & information screens onboard. I never quite understand why those who have the reason on Twitter insist on being told the very same from the driver. Perhaps they are just in a grumpy mood for being delayed.
 

vinnym70

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As a passenger, if I can know what's happening via twitter (or whatever) before the driver then that highlights a gap in knowledge between those I assume are in control and those who are just sitting there.

I get the whole safety critical role of the driver but I'm really sure that the gap noted is hole that can be filled.

I can't accept there's any regular situation where the driver is struggling to perceive the issue when the folks on twitter in the back knew better 20/25/30 minutes ago via SMS or Twitter or even friends of friends via Facebook.
 

LAX54

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Oh my that was a long while ago. I'm struggling to remember what a Blackberry looks like. Drivers are on the second issue of Samsung tablets but can only be used for driving advisory reasons in the cab. Any info is passed on through general broadcasts via signallers on GSMR. Conductors all have smart phones.

Dissemmination of information is still not the best on the Railway, The Signallers can indeed advise the Drivers of what is happening, but, they tend to know as much as the Driver, which is normally very little !

We had the idea of the TOC and NR Control all in the same office, which is what we have with the ROC at Romford, however sometimes it seems that the TOC might as well be in Scotland and the NR Control in Cornwall !

If they ever re-enable text messages (apart from the pre-loaded) into GSM-R it maybe easier to get a message to the Crew, rather than a cover all vauge broadcast, or 'contact signaller'
 

vinnym70

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Dissemmination of information is still not the best on the Railway, The Signallers can indeed advise the Drivers of what is happening, but, they tend to know as much as the Driver, which is normally very little !

We had the idea of the TOC and NR Control all in the same office, which is what we have with the ROC at Romford, however sometimes it seems that the TOC might as well be in Scotland and the NR Control in Cornwall !

If they ever re-enable text messages (apart from the pre-loaded) into GSM-R it maybe easier to get a message to the Crew, rather than a cover all vauge broadcast, or 'contact signaller'

Meanwhile... the rest of the world disseminates information (correct or otherwise) faster than ever.

Fully appreciate the challenges but it does feel like certain areas are playing catch-up.

If I were to draw parallels:

Rugby referees vs football referees (we get to hear what the rugby refs are saying, football is a different matter)
DLR train captains (non-drivers) having real-time radio contact with base versus national rail drivers seemingly only having contact with signallers on an ad-hoc basis

Fully understand retro-fitting real-time comms isn't simplistic but I'd love to hear that it was a goal and a very near-term goal, at that.
 

LAX54

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Meanwhile... the rest of the world disseminates information (correct or otherwise) faster than ever.

Fully appreciate the challenges but it does feel like certain areas are playing catch-up.

If I were to draw parallels:

Rugby referees vs football referees (we get to hear what the rugby refs are saying, football is a different matter)
DLR train captains (non-drivers) having real-time radio contact with base versus national rail drivers seemingly only having contact with signallers on an ad-hoc basis

Fully understand retro-fitting real-time comms isn't simplistic but I'd love to hear that it was a goal and a very near-term goal, at that.

Of course the incorrect version, is of no use to anyone, and can make it worse than no information at all. and of course it tends to be, the quicker it is, the more likely it is to be wrong !

There is no easy answer, If we take Romford ROC, where they cover Liverpool Street to Kings Lynn, Stansted. Southend, Norwich, Harwich, Clacton, Lowestoft, Yarmouth, Sudbury, Braintree, Felixstowe. Bury, Cambridge, there is an Inner and Outer Controller, who when the job goes belly up will have a fair deal on his plate, but the nature of the GE and WA is that anything in the Outer will quickly affect the Inner and vice versa.

Control will then be dealing with the NR Controllers, they will have the Stations calling in asking what is going on, trying to get trains turned round, or retimed, but at the same time taking into account what the crew do on that service, and their next diagram, they will also of course be taking calls from Guards also asking what is happening, their phone concentrator will be lit up like the Las Vegas strip !

Trying to get accurate info out quickly is not easy, and wrong info can make the situation worse, it takes time to get a handle on the impact of the incident.

Have to say, the Signallers tend to be a bit of a way down this list for advice..... after the initial notification of a train stopping incident, but then I would not want to be on the Control desk at that time ! lol
 

dk1

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'disseminates'

Haha that's a word I've never come across. Thankfully I (and slightly most) of the rest of this country voted similar & so we don't do the customer is always right tosh like America & others.
 
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