superkev
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Does that mean some 319s will then be surplus.
I wonder when they will appear east of the pennines.
K
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Northern Class 331: Construction/Introduction Updates
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I wonder when they will appear east of the pennines.
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There are no plans for the 319s to go east as that would just add another level of complexity to train crew training.
It looks like the 331s will start to filter into service on Blackpool/Liverpool/ Airport runs as and when there's sufficient train crew trained to cover the diagrams, then they will free up the 319s for the other Bolton corridor services that are still DMU worked. There are currently no spare 319s normally to be diagrammed to Bolton - this past week we have had a couple of 319 failures which has resulted in short forms on Cheshire Lines as the DMUs from there have been pulled to cover the 319 work.
Nymanic
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Railway Gazette is now reporting that the 331/1s will enter service on the Leeds-Doncaster route from the May timetable change.
https://www.railwaygazette.com/news...thern-class-331s-to-serve-leeds-from-may.html
https://www.railwaygazette.com/news...thern-class-331s-to-serve-leeds-from-may.html
absolutelymilk
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Excellent! What units will this replace?
Bantamzen
Established Member
I wonder how quickly they'll find their way onto Aire & Wharfe services if this is indeed the case, as currently the 321/322s swap & change between the Doncaster & Aire/Wharfe Triangle services?
321s and 322s.
Hmm I think it'll depend on whether it's the four car or three car sets that are in service over here. If it's only three car then I'd be surprised if they end up on the Triangle due to capacity issues but if it's the four cars then I think they'll appear before too long.
Bantamzen
Established Member
I suspect (and am sure I've read it at least somewhere) that it will be the 4 car units, in which case as they start to come into service they can as you say start to replace the 3221/322s meaning one more than enough are delivered to cover the Doncaster diagrams they will start to work their way onto the rest of the Leeds EMU workings. Plus some peak Doncaster services would also struggle with 3 car units (I remember the worst of the days when 321s were often replaced by 3 car 144s & even 142s!), so it seems to make sense to use them in West Yorkshire.
Sleeperwaking
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I used to get the train from Doncaster to Wakefield Westgate every morning to go to school. The times when the usual 4-car 321 got replaced by a 2-car 142 were Not. Pleasant. Aisles completely rammed, condensation running down the inside of the windows, urgh.
Bantamzen
Established Member
I used to get the train from Doncaster to Wakefield Westgate every morning to go to school. The times when the usual 4-car 321 got replaced by a 2-car 142 were Not. Pleasant. Aisles completely rammed, condensation running down the inside of the windows, urgh.
There was one occasion, many years ago standing at South Elmsall for the then 06:38 to Leeds when a single 153 rolled up....
xotGD
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The Doncaster line was the one route that WASN'T meant to be getting 331s. Oh well.
I doubt they'll be permanent fixtures. I suspect there will be a shuffle once fleets are fully delivered and crews fully trained.
To begin with the Triangle I'd gamble as I think Northern's Eastern EMU fleet is tight at the moment. But after that? Cutters torch maybe? Conversion to DMU or Hydrogen perhaps? But nothing has been annouced that I'm aware of.
I see.
In there/five years time, once all the nee fleets are delivered what do you think will be running the Bolton lines /North of Picc /vic ?
jonesy3001
Established Member
Have the 331s been tested on the glossop/hadfield since they're replacing the 323s or is it going over to 319 traction?
Through Bolton I'd predict: TPE 397s (on the Scottish routes), 769s to Wigan via Bolton, 150s to Blackburn via Bolton and on Wigan services that aren't 769 operated, then 319s, 323s, 331s, and 195s for everything else. And this is Northern, so the odd 158 will probably be thrown in too for good measure.
Sleeperwaking
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D: D: D: I'm thankful I always boarded an empty train at Doncaster. My mental image of that has the 153 arriving accompanied by the shrieking violins from the shower scene at the start of Psycho...There was one occasion, many years ago standing at South Elmsall for the then 06:38 to Leeds when a single 153 rolled up....
To go slightly more back on topic, it could be interesting to re-enact the old school commute on a brand new 331 - I know Wakey station's changed massively since, wonder what else has changed.
We're starting to wonder off-topic a bit here (thanks to @Sleeperwaking for heroically trying to drag us back) so lets focus again on 331s and their introduction. Anyone wishing to discuss some of the other things touched on recently is welcome to start a new thread 
They will be Edge Hill bound. There's already two coaches sat there from that unit .
Allwinter_Kit
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What I don't quite understand is that the 6 car 331s were going to run on Skipton - Leeds, yet this isn't possible due to the platform length at Leeds currently. Fair enough - but no platform lengthening works are planned on Airedale any more (I asked NR on Twitter) so presumably SDO is the solution. If so, why couldn't they SDO the doors at Leeds too if they're the last trains into a platform? Or is it that they would foul signals, etc.?
If there is already a unit in a bay platform at Leeds, an additional 6 coaches would potentially foul the track circuits and block adjacent platforms.
Personally I cant see them being able extend platforms 1-5 at either end to accommodate 10 coaches and the only bay able to is the new platform W whenever that is built
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D6700
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SDO was indeed the intended method, which was highly criticised last year:
https://www.railfuture.org.uk/dl1880
(October 2018 edition)
The second paragraph on page 8 says:
"The Aire Valley RUG said that its line has had no significant improvements since 2001, and suffers from overcrowding: the 4-car Class 333 trains with just 360 seats regularly carry 600 passengers, and even the new 6-car trains promised by Northern will have only 410 seats. Nor is there currently any plan to extend the 4-car platforms. Passengers on full trains will not be able to get to a carriage from which they can alight. The RUG is campaigning to extend all of these platforms, hitting the local media and meeting MPs, resulting in the issue being raised in Parliament."
Here was some of the resulting media attention (which also made local TV news at the time):
https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co...es-will-be-too-short-for-new-trains-1-9190752
The plan for Leeds includes re-alignment the track into these platforms, which would presumably enable platform extensions to take place at the west end.
https://www.networkrail.co.uk/feeds/new-platform-part-of-two-more-key-upgrades-for-leeds-station/
"A new platform – platform zero – will be the crowning glory of a significant £161m investment in the rail infrastructure that will also see improvements to the track alignment for more efficient journeys into platforms 1-6, as well as a major upgrade to the signalling across the entire station, in a boost to train service reliability. Platforms 1-6 will also be lengthened to cater for longer trains with more seats."
Interestingly, if the existing trains are (almost) all 4 cars and the new trains are 3 and 4 cars, but only certain trains intended to run with 6 cars in the peak, this suggests a significant number of services that are currently 4 cars will be reduced to 3 cars. Much of the time, this will not matter, but I am sure there are plenty of "shoulder peak" services and other very busy trains that will suffer from such a reduction in capacity.
While we don't know the diagrams, the 331s are in addition to the 333s rather than replacement so I'd expect to see the 6 cars running only in the peaks coming out of the sidings at those times and being spare at the others much like the 321/322s do now.
Unless Northern want to score some serious own goals with people left on the platforms seeing the new trains going off into the sunset?
Unless Northern want to score some serious own goals with people left on the platforms seeing the new trains going off into the sunset?
Allwinter_Kit
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Thanks all for the enlightening responses.
In terms of units, I recall reading (but I think it was on this forum so may have been either rock solid intelligence or utter wibble) that Skipton - Leeds was going to be permanent 6 car 331s, Bradford FS trains 333s and Ilkley a mix of 4 car and 2x3 331s (for the peak).
On reflection though that seems like a lot of different traction compositions to run around.
In terms of units, I recall reading (but I think it was on this forum so may have been either rock solid intelligence or utter wibble) that Skipton - Leeds was going to be permanent 6 car 331s, Bradford FS trains 333s and Ilkley a mix of 4 car and 2x3 331s (for the peak).
On reflection though that seems like a lot of different traction compositions to run around.
anamyd
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What coupler issues are these...?
LOL The Irony
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Internal Bar Couplings apparently. But the poster who revealed the issue couldn't elaborate further due to the issues being potentially detrimental to CAF.
EDIT: Check the 195 thread.
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