Sad times when all hst's are gone

yorksrob said:

A phase 1 CIG or thumper for example could also be lovely to travel on.

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Both of these were woefully anachronistic even when new.

It will be interesting to see what happens from 2020 onwards. Scotrail, XC, and GWR will all have some HSTs for at least 5-10 years duly upgraded to conform with requirements - Wabtec permitting.

East Midlands under whatever ownership applies will have to operate HSTs in all probability for at least 2 or 3 years without upgrade. In speaking to a fleet manager I asked if derogation would be given. No - was the short answer. Apparently there's a subtle difference probably best understood by lawyers working in the rail industry. Dispensation to continue operation as now will be given.

That could permit a further order to Wabtec by the incoming franchise holder to keep them compliant for a further period, after all they should have a well organised production line in operation by December 2019 and continued work may be welcome! By then we'll be able to see the success of the units now being refurbished. A non rail enthusiast recently travelled on a refurbished XC unit and complimented the staff on their new train. She was told by the young man that it was 50 years old, built when his dad was a kid!

I recall travelling out of Paddington to Swansea, Cardiff and Bristol in 1976 when they were new. They've done us very well, but the last GWR coaches I used were showing surface corrosion around doors and windows, so what they're like underneath must be a nightmare.

61653 HTAFC said:

That was my point! Mk4s have always ridden worse than HSTs, I'd even go as far as saying that, given a straight run on continuously welded rail, a Pacer at 75mph rides better than Mk4s at 125mph. If it's one with the Northern Spirit "car seats" it'll be more comfortable in every way, and worth taking almost twice as long to get wherever I'm going!

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The MK4's were allowed the BT41 SIG Bogie as it had transpired that BREL who were building the T4 couldnt guarantee during tender the robustness of the bogie truck at 140mph...So the SIG type was bought for the fleet, The RTC spent many hours attempting to get a decent ride out of them....research on web shows that the T4s could have done the job without problem, it just a matter of time needed to develop the type for operation at 125+mph...in the end the Mk4 stayed at 125mph..and the T4's were used on the MK3 DVTs without problem

Journeyman said:

Both of these were woefully anachronistic even when new.

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Well, actually they were built between 1956 and 1964 between them, which was when mk 1 carriages were standard across the network, so not anachronistic when new.

Additionally, the thumpers represented a step change in quality over the steam stock they replaced, which led to an uplift in passenger numbers on many lines when they were introduced.

In any case, they were/are splendidly comfortable and I'll take comfortable over modern any day thank you.

Rail Blues said:

That's because you are looking at them from the perspective of an enthusiast, nothing wrong with that per se, but what is 'quirky charm' is just uncomfortable and irritating for the vast majority of passagers.

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Not really. I'm looking at them from the perspective of a traveller that spends 7 hours in each direction on them fairly regularly and still prefers them to Mk4 stock or the rock'n'roll of a Scotrail 170. And definitely prefers them to Sleazyjet.

yorksrob said:

A phase 1 CIG or thumper for example could also be lovely to travel on.

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Compared to the pre-refurbishment CEP/BEP stock (i.e. before Swindon butchered it and installed eye-gouging yellow 1980s plastic and concrete slabs for seats), all other 400 series EMUs and SR DEMUs were distinctly average. Except VEP stock, which was always far worse. Then the CEPs/BEPs were completely messed up and anything seemed comfortable in comparison.

Kite159 said:

And it isn't like the LNER HSTs have perfect seat alignment either with some seats having a lovely view of a pillar.

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No, but the downloadable PDF train layouts show the location of the seats related to the windows. So when booking in advance you can make sure of choosing one with a view. I just hope this useful facility comes with the Azoooooomas.

yorksrob said:

Well, actually they were built between 1956 and 1964 between them, which was when mk 1 carriages were standard across the network, so not anachronistic when new.

Additionally, the thumpers represented a step change in quality over the steam stock they replaced, which led to an uplift in passenger numbers on many lines when they were introduced.

In any case, they were/are splendidly comfortable and I'll take comfortable over modern any day thank you.

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You have GOT to be kidding me. They bounced around all over the place, were dull and gloomy, and had a very poor travelling environment compared to stock just about every other region was getting.

HaggisBotherer said:

Not really. I'm looking at them from the perspective of a traveller that spends 7 hours in each direction on them fairly regularly and still prefers them to Mk4 stock or the rock'n'roll of a Scotrail 170. And definitely prefers them to Sleazyjet.

Compared to the pre-refurbishment CEP/BEP stock (i.e. before Swindon butchered it and installed eye-gouging yellow 1980s plastic and concrete slabs for seats), all other 400 series EMUs and SR DEMUs were distinctly average. Except VEP stock, which was always far worse. Then the CEPs/BEPs were completely messed up and anything seemed comfortable in comparison.

No, but the downloadable PDF train layouts show the location of the seats related to the windows. So when booking in advance you can make sure of choosing one with a view. I just hope this useful facility comes with the Azoooooomas.

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The phase 1 CIG's at least had the deep cushioned seats and individual reading lamps, which I imagine puts them in the same league as the pre refurb CEP's.

Journeyman said:

You have GOT to be kidding me. They bounced around all over the place, were dull and gloomy, and had a very poor travelling environment compared to stock just about every other region was getting.

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I find tungsten lighting and trojan moquette provide a far more relaxing ambience than glaring florescent tubes and garish interiors.

The 1st gen DMU's were far more austere and rattly than anything we were subjected to on the Southern anyway. And I don't get where this ultra modern stock was being churned out in 1956-64. With the exception of some sliding door incursions around the cities, mk1's were very much being introduced around the rest of the country at this time.

HaggisBotherer said:

the way the wheels scream at high speed is all part of their quirky charm.

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All trains do that at a high speed, just modern units have better sound deadening.