Jordan Adam
Established Member
Having a £2 flat fare you'd loose out on quite a bit of short distance custom. As it's far too expensive for people only going distances which they could otherwise walk if they wanted to.
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First Greater Glasgow
- Thread starter KGGXXXY
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Having a £2 flat fare you'd loose out on quite a bit of short distance custom. As it's far too expensive for people only going distances which they could otherwise walk if they wanted to.
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GaryMcEwan
Established Member
It works perfectly well in Edinburgh, so no reason for it to work in Glasgow. If they can walk the short distance, then why would they get the bus in the first place?
The maximum fare in Glasgow zone is £2-40 and this includes East Kilbride and Clydebank so you can go a fair distance for £2-40. This is value for money IMO considering it costs £4-20 to from EK to Hamilton on the 201.
Gingerbus1991
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Surely a £2.40 is a very seldom thats issued?
My reasoning being that if the fare was £1.60 and that was it, then it would be make ng thing simple, someone asks what the fare is “£1.60”, none of the carry on with finding the cost through fare stages(only boundaries in the flat fare zone).
A £1.60 fare from clydebank to easterhouse, now that is a bargain.
A £1.60 fare from Milngavie to City Centre, now thats a bargain.
Much of the fare prices for single is seemingly being dictated by the amount the company gets from Concession card holders.
My question, could the company not get around this by offering a £1.50 single through the M-app?
I find no good reason to ask customers to pay more through electronical means that cash passengers of course.
Gingerbus1991
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Again Ill do what i’ve alway done, compare the west to the east.
Mr & Mrs Madder & White can go from Muckelburgh to Dumpstone on a 30 for £1.70, both muckelburgh and dumpstone are regions which isnt exploited by tourism and is simply residential, now that is value for money.
Be that whats said, the most who go few stops are those who are old(concession card holders) or disable person(concession card holder).
I personally understand that £2 is costing too much for a single(similarly how I feel that Eddie’s £1.70 fare is starting to look that way).
Theres absolutely no plausible reason this could not work in glasgow.
Simple, Easy and Manageable.
After all what was the Moto, “SimpliCity”...
More recently I rekindled my thought on this through many asking on Twit-ter how much a particular fare would be but the cronies down in england don’t particularly know.
Ps I can purely see why many wouldnt pay £4.20, EK to Hamilton when my 30mpg car doesn’t even cost that much.
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Jordan Adam
Established Member
The layouts of Edinburgh and Glasgow are very different, what works in one place does not work in another. I'm pretty sure another member on this forum went in to quite a bit of detail recently (no doubt in reply to GB91) about how and why a flat fare works in Edinburgh.
The best option imo is to offer two different fares. 1-3 stages for £1.50, 4+ stages for £2.50.
Gingerbus1991
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Possibly because in general Eddie has more passengers per bus through Simpler priced tickets, cleaner vehicles and generally has a higher regard for punctuality and reliability.
Are these the main reasons Eddie gets it?
Was on an 18 this morning and swear there was dog sh*t on the back of one of the seats!
Gingerbus1991
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Of course my comment Above doesnt reflect tickets cost, but is this really what glasgow wants?
ScotRail158725
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Edinburgh does have much of a suburban rail network though, apart from a few stations on the lines out theres nothing compared to Glasgow
adrock1976
Established Member
How come a flat fare works well in London, which is bigger than both Aberdeen and Glasgow?
Gingerbus1991
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Of course I see that as a bonus for glasgow including the Subway.
My point being, has First ever tryed to make itself out to be the premium product over the once upon a time more expensive train, here is where I’ve always felt that first put the bus there in the hope people use it without any real effort.
The bonus of the train for many is the capability of “driving” to the train station after a 10 second walk from your front door to the car, another 50 yard walk from the train carpark to the platform, ie, laziness, of course that reduced journey time on a train makes a dent.
Alot of the people I speak to in glasgow act as if the “bus” is almost a dirty word and way of getting around, there is still many a place in glasgow you cant get a train too.
Gingerbus1991
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By all means, I think its a case of Principal on the operators part in glasgow, why should a passenger be able to go all the way for less when we can charge them more for a farther distance.
First Glasgow don't have the passenger focused service they would let you believe they did.
After living here my full life most people here do not have the company in good light.
Jordan Adam
Established Member
What works in one place may not work in another, do you seriously think operators outside London could afford to charge a £1.50 flat fare irregardless of distance?
I don't know how you stay at it. You are aware this thread is meant to be for discussion on "routes, fleet, news and developments" as stated in the original post. NOT your almost daily repeated rants about your sheer dislike for the lilac buses. If the bus network in Glasgow really bothers you so much why not go out and do something about it rather than ranting 24/7 on a rail forum. Giving an opinion on something is fine and we should all respect other peoples opinions, but surely there's a limit before it comes spam.
We get it, you don't like First Glasgow, you have as irrational hatred of them, we don't need reminded daily! Urrgh
Gingerbus1991
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The service bothers alot of people in Glasgow, I do see your point however, nothing can be really done to be fair.
However, if myself or someone else is to ask a Question, Answer or share a Theory to this topic, agree or disagree with someone with differing thoughts, share fleet movement or even diverge from the main topic momentarily, I see this as “discussing” the topic of First Glasgow for the main part.
In a discussion many aren't going to share every thought equally.
Hatred is a very strong word, dislike is more suitable, but I certainly wouldnt call my disposition irrational.
However, if myself or someone else is to ask a Question, Answer or share a Theory to this topic, agree or disagree with someone with differing thoughts, share fleet movement or even diverge from the main topic momentarily, I see this as “discussing” the topic of First Glasgow for the main part.
In a discussion many aren't going to share every thought equally.
Hatred is a very strong word, dislike is more suitable, but I certainly wouldnt call my disposition irrational.
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Jordan Adam
Established Member
Indeed, however there's difference between discussing opinions and spamming, sadly your posts regarding are veering more towards the latter now.
GaryMcEwan
Established Member
I'm sorry but I'm in this camp as well. Given the choice of First or Stagecoach, I'd choose Stagecoach any day of the week.
Rude drivers, filthy buses, late buses, buses that don't turn up at all. Need I go on?
Maybe you should come and experience a day in the life of a normal Glaswegian using First. Your opinion would soon change.
Here's a radical thought, let SPT take control of every single route and put them all out to tender.
Jordan Adam
Established Member
"Rolls eyes", you've totally missed the point i was making...
GaryMcEwan
Established Member
Have I really? Maybe all is well in your little First Aberdeen bubble, it's a different story for the likes of us that have to suffer them on a daily basis.
Jordan Adam
Established Member
Again you've missed it... I wasn't arguing the poor condition of some of Glasgow's vehicles, i wasn't even arguing any of your or GB91's opinions on First Glasgow whether accurate or not. I was simply saying that you don't need to repetitively moan about the exact same issues on this thread on a near daily basis and that it's boarder-lining on spam at this point.
As i said two posts ago...
As i said two posts ago...
I agree with GB91, First service provision in Glasgow isn't what it used to be with fares constantly shooting up and services constantly being cut back all in the name of "simplification" and the age old excuse of "car congestion". The second one is probably the most stupid excuse they have ever come up with as, if I'm not mistaken, that is the number one thing that bus operators aim to reduce by attracting people OUT of their cars and onto buses.
I'm fortunate enough to live in an area that has both a bus service and train service. The bus service runs every 20 minutes, takes 35-40 minutes to get into Glasgow City Centre and costs £4.20(I think for a day ticket), the train takes half the time, runs every 10-12 minutes and costs £3.60 return.......guess what I and just about everyone else in the area uses....
I haven't seen anyone on here posting "irrational" rants as you say, I've seen people posting perfectly valid opinions. What I have seen is people who act like First are gods gift to the bus industry and god forbid anyone who says otherwise....
JumpinTrainz
Established Member
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Bottom line here is that while First Glasgow aren’t the worst - they certainly aren’t the best. Unfortunately many people on here either work for the company or previously have which makes it tricky for people to complain about them without being basically shamed for it.
First have a lot of work ahead of them to regain the respect of the public again but it is nice to see some proper investment being made in the company. I get it works both ways and “the public” can be disrespectful towards drivers and the fleet themselves BUT the vast majority just look for a decent, reliable bus service which at times has not been met.
First have a lot of work ahead of them to regain the respect of the public again but it is nice to see some proper investment being made in the company. I get it works both ways and “the public” can be disrespectful towards drivers and the fleet themselves BUT the vast majority just look for a decent, reliable bus service which at times has not been met.
KendalKing
Established Member
Unfortunately, its not just Glasgow!, I have encountered the same thing in other Towns & Cities.
Bus Lightyear
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Having read back at some of the recent comments on this thread I'm going to try and be pragmatic.
Do some of you honestly believe that companies make decisions on timetables, routes, tickets and fleet investment, controversial or otherwise, just to annoy enthusiasts on a forum? They'll possess the correct data and demographic statistics which allows them to carry out decisions in order to run a viable business.
Without naming the posters these are my observations in response.
One comment I read saying the 77 going double deck isn't necessary and yet the same poster has criticised First Glasgow on a regular basis for not being ambitious enough.
Another comment saying drivers are rude. There's rude people in every industry but they're by far and away outnumbered by the good guys. Majority of drivers I've encountered are very good at their jobs despite the day-to-day pressures which some of you probably don't understand or fail to appreciate. One thing for sure there's a hell of a lot of rude passengers out there compared to drivers.
I still notice some comparisons to Edinburgh and now London. I'm sorry, but you're not comparing apples with apples. The local bus networks in those two cities are funded significantly better than probably anywhere else in the UK. Unlike Glasgow, Edinburgh hasn't suffered from the same amount of deindustrialisation or population decline therefore not as many passengers have been lost.
Increased levels of congestion is not an excuse as it's happening nationwide and it's a problem were the transport industry aren't entirely blameless but it's also a cultural problem. A lot of people are very dependant on their cars but politicians are too frightened to upset them.
Do some of you honestly believe that companies make decisions on timetables, routes, tickets and fleet investment, controversial or otherwise, just to annoy enthusiasts on a forum? They'll possess the correct data and demographic statistics which allows them to carry out decisions in order to run a viable business.
Without naming the posters these are my observations in response.
One comment I read saying the 77 going double deck isn't necessary and yet the same poster has criticised First Glasgow on a regular basis for not being ambitious enough.
Another comment saying drivers are rude. There's rude people in every industry but they're by far and away outnumbered by the good guys. Majority of drivers I've encountered are very good at their jobs despite the day-to-day pressures which some of you probably don't understand or fail to appreciate. One thing for sure there's a hell of a lot of rude passengers out there compared to drivers.
I still notice some comparisons to Edinburgh and now London. I'm sorry, but you're not comparing apples with apples. The local bus networks in those two cities are funded significantly better than probably anywhere else in the UK. Unlike Glasgow, Edinburgh hasn't suffered from the same amount of deindustrialisation or population decline therefore not as many passengers have been lost.
Increased levels of congestion is not an excuse as it's happening nationwide and it's a problem were the transport industry aren't entirely blameless but it's also a cultural problem. A lot of people are very dependant on their cars but politicians are too frightened to upset them.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Well said - accurate and balanced
tbtc
Veteran Member
We discussed it a few weeks ago on the First Aberdeen thread.
I think that comparisons with London and cross city journeys are also unhelpful.
London because the powers that be have decided to have one simple fare (I remember when it was 70p for journeys outside Zone 1 and £1.00 for journeys in/through Zone 1, but fares were "simplified" a few years ago). But in London, a large proportion of bus journeys are going to be fairly short (as far as the nearest Underground or DLR or Overground or National Rail station) so I can see the logic of keeping things simple (if someone wants to sit on the bus all the way from Stratford to Zone 1 on the 25 which can take over an hour rather than taking a ten minute train journey then good luck to them, you can use the cheap bus as a form of market segmentation, attracting a class of person who is cash poor but time rich).
Cross city journeys seem a slightly unfair thing on fare comparisons, unless there is a huge destination on the other side of the city - maybe there are a few cross city passengers on the Stagecoach X19 given the attractions of The Fort on one side of town and the Hospital on the other) - but I don't think that the "Musselburgh - Clovenstone" or "Clydebank - East Kilbride" fare matters that much - so few people will do it that I don't think it matters that much what the fare is - if it's the same fare to go cross city as it is just to go into the city centre then I don't think the revenue "loss" will be that significant - if anything it can make for a nice cheap fare to advertise, safe in the knowledge that precious few people will sit on a bus for two hours from Clydebank to East Kilbride in a typical day.
However, I'm shocked at the prices quoted for Hamilton - EK or for Motherwell - Glasgow... especially given how frequent the services are - why pay over a fiver for a bus from Motherwell into Glasgow when there are so many trains? That's a crazy fare!
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Maybe with so many trains and the fares as they are, it’s difficult to compete on for most passengers but you want the concessionary revenue?
You say the bus tickets are high but they are priced lower than the peak train fares which is until 9am at Motherwell Station.
Scotrail
Motherwell to Glasgow Return is £7.50 before 9am.
First Bus
Network all day via mtickets is £5.60.
Remember that First operate the X11 service every 10mins or so in morning peaks I would say is ok value considering. They are slightly more frequent also with the trains running every 12-15mins approx in the morning peak. What I don't agree with is the single fare price they are charging.
End of the day though, the X11 is a highly successful bus route with commuters with most if not all deckers leaving Motherwell during peak are full.
Scotrail
Motherwell to Glasgow Return is £7.50 before 9am.
First Bus
Network all day via mtickets is £5.60.
Remember that First operate the X11 service every 10mins or so in morning peaks I would say is ok value considering. They are slightly more frequent also with the trains running every 12-15mins approx in the morning peak. What I don't agree with is the single fare price they are charging.
End of the day though, the X11 is a highly successful bus route with commuters with most if not all deckers leaving Motherwell during peak are full.
Yeah , dont get why the 267 , 255 have them high fares to Glasgow ? While East Kilbride does not .
For selfish reasons a decker is more comfortable , ever tried getting off a busy single ?