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Northern timetable changes May 2019

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driver_m

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And reintroduce conflicting moves out of Man Piccadilly? Exactly how does that benefit the Castlefield corridor when you just screw up the line further down by going back to how it was?
 

Bletchleyite

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And reintroduce conflicting moves out of Man Piccadilly? Exactly how does that benefit the Castlefield corridor when you just screw up the line further down by going back to how it was?

As I said, terminate those trains in P1/2, thus freeing up a Class 185 for doubling up, replacing each with a Class 319/323 Airport train run from platform 11 or 12.

Only short term - as soon as the new stock is available and 15/16 built the Chord could be used much more heavily - indeed potentially even more than the present 2tph (?)
 

Bantamzen

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As I said, terminate those trains in P1/2, thus freeing up a Class 185 for doubling up, replacing each with a Class 319/323 Airport train run from platform 11 or 12.

Only short term - as soon as the new stock is available and 15/16 built the Chord could be used much more heavily - indeed potentially even more than the present 2tph (?)

Well seeing that the TPE timetables are in the system, and Northern's all but loaded then the fantasy of the "Manchester Airport Shuttle" is deferred until at least December 2019. By which time a fair few TPE diagrams through the TP North will be 5 car, thus giving the extra capacity as the released 185s go to strengthen other services, etc, etc. Plus 5 car TPE units might cause their own issues in the Piccadilly bays as Northern try to strengthen their own services with 3, 4 & maybe even 6 car formations.

Like I said, your idea is too late. Stable doors, horses and all that...
 

Eccles1983

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Terminating trains in 1/2 is nonsense.

They are very busy with trains to ashburys and further afield. Putting terminating trains from tpe will kill off the eastern lines, meaning the Sheffield's/new mills etc trains now have to cross the throat to platform, meaning even more chaos.

It's spotter wibble - it just creates more problems in an even tighter area.
 
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VT 390

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Two problems exist though, one that to dedicate & presumably refurbish some 323s would lock them into those diagrams & of course Northern might want to make it a premium service and charge more to pay for them. The other problem is that currently many passengers are arriving from further afield than Greater Manchester, & might not take well to the idea of being tipped out at Piccadilly or Victoria having likely already made at least one change on their way into Manchester. And in the case of the latter, being tipped off the train, onto the tram to cross Manchester would add anything up to half an hour more along with the inconvenience of dragging suitcases, kids etc onto said tram isn't going to appeal.

There is a good reason why TPE operate the services that they do, providing what is a relatively new & growing business in getting passengers from further afield to Manchester Airport without having to change trains and/or modes. This is attracting more passengers (and of course more revenue), and as capacity increases with the 397 & 802s that will be operating the bulk of the TPE Airport services more people again will use the, especially as Manchester Airport is expanding & expecting even more passengers.

Some people continue to blame the Airport services for the timetable woes that beset the Castlefield Corridor last May, but just some small tweaks have already vastly improved reliability & once 5 car units become the norm hopefully reduced dwell times through the corridor will lead to further improvements still. Now if only the Minister for Transport could be persuaded to sign off on the Piccadilly / Oxford Road improvements that were meant to go hand-in-hand with the Ordsall Chord build....

Will the 5 carriage trains actually reduce dwell times as the current 185's have doors evenly spaced along the carriage but all the new TPE stock will have doors at the ends of the carriages so it may take longer for people to alight and board each service.
 

Greybeard33

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If this train is from Stoke, surely it has to be a 323.
The 0624 from Stoke (2N61) is pathed as a 75mph Sprinter from Stoke to Cheadle Hulme, then as a 100mph 319 from Cheadle Hulme to Blackpool North. It is early enough in the morning not to get in the way of an express on the Stoke line.
 

geoffk

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The 0624 from Stoke (2N61) is pathed as a 75mph Sprinter from Stoke to Cheadle Hulme, then as a 100mph 319 from Cheadle Hulme to Blackpool North. It is early enough in the morning not to get in the way of an express on the Stoke line.
319's are now route cleared for the Stoke line, though this will be the only one of the day to appear there.
Thanks. I thought the bay platform at Stoke was too short. Real Time Trains states platform 3.
 

absolutelymilk

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Will the 5 carriage trains actually reduce dwell times as the current 185's have doors evenly spaced along the carriage but all the new TPE stock will have doors at the ends of the carriages so it may take longer for people to alight and board each service.
From May, the TPE WCML services will stop at Oxford Road as well as Picadilly, which will reduce dwell times at Picadilly.
 

VT 390

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From May, the TPE WCML services will stop at Oxford Road as well as Picadilly, which will reduce dwell times at Picadilly.

This will help the Scotland to Manchester Airport services but I thought all the TPE services from Manchester Victoria to Manchester Airport already called at Oxford Road.
 

scrapy

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Thanks. I thought the bay platform at Stoke was too short. Real Time Trains states platform 3.
It will probably use platform 2 at Stoke which doesn't see much traffic at that time of day. Timings on a 319 not really an issue as won't have an express behind it at that time of morning.
 

absolutelymilk

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This will help the Scotland to Manchester Airport services but I thought all the TPE services from Manchester Victoria to Manchester Airport already called at Oxford Road.
Yes, I was just talking about the Scotland-Manchester services.
 

agbrs_Jack

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It will probably use platform 2 at Stoke which doesn't see much traffic at that time of day. Timings on a 319 not really an issue as won't have an express behind it at that time of morning.

I believe P3 is big enough for a 319 (approx 80m, P3 is 88m)
More importantly the lack of a Sunday service is getting ridiculous now, Sundays are near unusable and an hourly service has been a franchise commitment since Dec 2017.
 

geoffk

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I believe P3 is big enough for a 319 (approx 80m, P3 is 88m)
More importantly the lack of a Sunday service is getting ridiculous now, Sundays are near unusable and an hourly service has been a franchise commitment since Dec 2017.
Seems unlikely to happen until Sundays become part of the working week - see posts elsewhere. All Northern's Sunday improvements for May are in Yorkshire, where T&Cs are different.
 

agbrs_Jack

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Seems unlikely to happen until Sundays become part of the working week - see posts elsewhere. All Northern's Sunday improvements for May are in Yorkshire, where T&Cs are different.

I think that service level commitments should not be on a by franchise basis but per station.
Therefore if Northern fail to meet a commitment for (say) 15 services each way on a Sunday, then CrossCountry should step in to make calls.

Also a simple Stoke-Macc shuttle would use fewer staff and fewer units, but still give us the connections to get places.
 

Harvey B

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Changes at Leeds:
  • New semi-fast service to Harrogate departing xx15 (no corresponding xx45 service shown)
  • xx36 service to Manchester Victoria now departs xx38 and extended to Chester
  • Services to / from Preston extended (restored) to Blackpool North
  • Apart from a couple of minor retimings, no other changes to regular departures at Leeds
  • Service from Huddersfield to Wakefield Kirkgate extended to Castleford
Are the Blackpool North services from Leeds part of Northern Connect?
I'm asking as a one of the services which will be part Northern Connect is a service from York to Blackpool North. But if this isn't the Northern connect service then
it makes me wonder If this will be a temporary thing until Northern Connect starts. But in the meantime, at least there's a direct service again from Leeds to Blackpool North.
 
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Are the Blackpool North services from Leeds part of Northern Connect?
I'm asking as a one of the services which will be part Northern Connect is a service from York to Blackpool North. But if this isn't the Northern connect service then
it makes me wonder If this will be a temporary thing until Northern Connect starts. But in the meantime, at least there's a direct service again from Leeds to Blackpool North.

The York - Blackpool service is on the list of Connect services so I guess whenever they start the existing service will convert.
 

Harvey B

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The York - Blackpool service is on the list of Connect services so I guess whenever they start the existing service will convert.
My theory is that there will either be:
Two Leeds to Blackpool services, the faster Northern Connect service served by a 195 and the slower service
.Or
The slower Leeds to Blackpool Caldervale service goes back to terminating at Preston like it has been since at least May 2018 (or has it been terminating at Preston since December 2017?).
and if i'm honest, both could be possible right now so only time will tell which outcome of the two it will be.
 

Glenn1969

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The Calder Valley Blackpool service and the planned Airport and Liverpool services are all on the list for Northern Connect status. There has never been a plan for a Blackpool service via another route as far as I know
 

Harvey B

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There has never been a plan for a Blackpool service via another route as far as I know
The other Blackpool service i'm referring to is via the Caldervale line service (not Northern Connect) that currently terminates at Preston and has been since November 2017 and until it started terminating at Preston, that service used to terminate at Blackpool North and from the Timetable change in May it will start Terminating again at Blackpool North.
This service that I was on about takes the same route the Northern Connect service to Blackpool will take when that launches but the only difference is that it stops at more stations than the Northern connect service from Leeds to Blackpool will stop at.
 
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Starmill

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The other Blackpool service i'm referring to is via the Caldervale line service (not Northern Connect) that currently terminates at Preston and has been since at least May 2018 (if not, then December 2017) and until it started terminating at Preston, that service used to terminate at Blackpool North and from the Timetable change in May it will start Terminating again at Blackpool North.
I think it was November 2017 when the service was truncated. It has since been restored throughout on Sundays only.
 

Harvey B

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Northern Connect doesn't start on any route until December so the Blackpool route will just convert
I guess but wouldn't that leave all the stations the Northern connect trains stop at with no direct service to Leeds? from those stations e.g: Burnley Manchester Road. I think the service will likely revert to terminating at Preston once again when the Northern connect service starts.
 

Glenn1969

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It's the same train and definitely won't skip Burnley, Accrington or Blackburn. Sowerby Bridge is listed as a future Northern Connect station so the Blackpools may well still stop there too
 

Harvey B

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It's the same train and definitely won't skip Burnley, Accrington or Blackburn. Sowerby Bridge is listed as a future Northern Connect station so the Blackpools may well still stop there too
IDK where you got that Sowerby Bridge will be a Northern Connect station no Northern connect services are planned to run from there and neither will they stop at Mytholmroyd , Hebbden Bridge, Accrington and Poulton le Fylde (the last ones not really as relevant)
also the Blackpool to York Northern Connect service will only stop at Leeds, Bradford Interchange, Halifax, Burnley (According to the Northern Connect page but I can't seem to find anything about that on wikipedia), Blackburn, Preston & Blackpool North.
(SOURCE: https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/travel/northern-connect)
And since i've found that via Wikipedia and Northern's website i've come to the conclusion that the service Leeds to Blackpool North will likely terminate at Preston again when the Northern Connect starts but until then I guess time will to see what stops it will stop at.
 

Glenn1969

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Sowerby Bridge was on the list to be branded and staffed as a Northern Connect station. I live in Halifax and am a member of the local forum so get to hear these things. There has never been a plan for 2tph to Blackpool or Preston on any route
 
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