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Class 380 ETCS

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leomartin125

leomartin125

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Hi,

After a brief look in a Class 380 'Desiro' cab recently, I found an 'ETCS Acknowledge' button on the dashboard. I did some research online, to no avail, and didn't know the Desiro family was even fitted with ETCS or ERTMS signalling. Can anyone explain why the 380 has this button and what it's used for/which lines have ERTMS in Scotland?

Thanks.
 
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Highlandspring

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It's a blanked out button reserved for future use. There are no lines in Scotland signalled with ETCS.
 
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laseandre

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As Highlandspring said, it's a case of being "fitted for but not with" ETCS - they've put in a blanked out button to reserve space for future use, knowing that ETCS could conceivably be fitted at some point in the units' life.
 
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Journeyman

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All new rolling stock is now being delivered with sufficient space and wiring for ETCS to be added when required. Kind of a big train equivalent of "DCC ready". :)
 
RailWonderer

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While we’re on the subject of 380s, do you know if they have air conditioning? Pictures of the interior I see show they don’t have the same roof as all other Desires. Since they’re for Scotland I wouldn’t be surprised. They also don’t have carpets like the other modern EMUs. Are they meant to be Suburban, regional or long distance units anyway?
 
hexagon789

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RailWonderer said:
While we’re on the subject of 380s, do you know if they have air conditioning? Pictures of the interior I see show they don’t have the same roof as all other Desires. Since they’re for Scotland I wouldn’t be surprised. They also don’t have carpets like the other modern EMUs. Are they meant to be Suburban, regional or long distance units anyway?
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Fully air-conditioned, as for the intended service?

Well they've done suburban workings round the Cathcart Circle, regional services from Ayr via Glasgow to Edinburgh and North Berwick. Not long-distance services though; though they did do the shuttles from Edinburgh-Glasgow via Falkirk High for a while pending 385 introduction.
 
3

380101

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RailWonderer said:
While we’re on the subject of 380s, do you know if they have air conditioning? Pictures of the interior I see show they don’t have the same roof as all other Desires. Since they’re for Scotland I wouldn’t be surprised. They also don’t have carpets like the other modern EMUs. Are they meant to be Suburban, regional or long distance units anyway?
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The 380 was kinda an inbetween unit between the Desiro and the current Desiro City models. It is fully airconditioned and we can control it from the HMI screen in the cab - we can increase the temp. from "normal to +3 and -3. It doesn't show us what normal is, but I assume somewhere around 20*C. It doesn't have carpets because they're an absolute nightmare to keep clean, especially with the high passenger loads, frequent door openings and the clientele at the weekends! On several occasions I've actually climbed out the cab and walked along the ballast in the yard to change ends due to the mess and smell in the passenger saloons at the weekends!
 
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swt_passenger

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RailWonderer said:
While we’re on the subject of 380s, do you know if they have air conditioning? Pictures of the interior I see show they don’t have the same roof as all other Desires. Since they’re for Scotland I wouldn’t be surprised. They also don’t have carpets like the other modern EMUs. Are they meant to be Suburban, regional or long distance units anyway?
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I think it might have been a better idea to look at the exterior which shows the replaceable Aircon modules on each carriage roof, including the small one for each cab. Similar to, but not identical to earlier Desiro UK variants.
 
Metal_gee_man

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380101 said:
On several occasions I've actually climbed out the cab and walked along the ballast in the yard to change ends due to the mess and smell in the passenger saloons at the weekends!
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As what point do you call your controller to either delay that service (until you get a train presentation team to clean up) or cancel it because it can't go out in that state, I've been on some pretty hideous trains that have puke in the door ways, beer soaked seats and enough alcohol containers to create a car with all the aluminium and glass that surprisingly SouthEastern have let run (admittedly last or last but one train)
 
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380101

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Metal_gee_man said:
As what point do you call your controller to either delay that service (until you get a train presentation team to clean up) or cancel it because it can't go out in that state, I've been on some pretty hideous trains that have puke in the door ways, beer soaked seats and enough alcohol containers to create a car with all the aluminium and glass that surprisingly SouthEastern have let run (admittedly last or last but one train)
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I dont, this is when I've been taking a last train empty into the yard to be stabled overnight where the nightshift cleaning team will tackle it! If, when in service there is sickness etc and I'm aware of it I'll call control via GSMR to advise them. I've failed a few units due to them being so bad with sickness that they need a heavy clean before allowing passengers on them. This is why carpets in trains is a stupid idea! 380 floors can be cleaned/mopped quickly at terminus stations and back into service without causing delays, but sickness/urine etc on carpets means at the least a coach locked out and usually a cancelled service.
 
anamyd

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380101 said:
The 380 was kinda an inbetween unit between the Desiro and the current Desiro City models.
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If that's the case, why were more 350s (the /3s and /4s) made after the 380s were made...? Consistency in the then-London Midland fleet I suppose (then-First TransPennine Express got the 350/4s not 380s because the 350/4s were originally meant to be for then-London Midland, and London Northwestern Railway are finally supposed to be acquiring them.
 
transmanche

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anamyd said:
If that's the case, why were more 350s (the /3s and /4s) made after the 380s were made...? Consistency in the then-London Midland fleet I suppose (then-First TransPennine Express got the 350/4s not 380s because the 350/4s were originally meant to be for then-London Midland, and London Northwestern Railway are finally supposed to be acquiring them.
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Consistency within the LM fleet definitely. But I don't believe that the 350/4s were 'originally meant to be for then-London Midland'. I believe they were always destined for TPE and that getting LM to order them was merely a convenient device to speed up procurement and get a better price.

See this press release from LM back in September 2011.

London Midland is pleased to announce today that it has selected preferred bidders for the manufacture, maintenance and financing of new rolling stock. This is intended for both London Midland and the Manchester to Scotland services operated by First TransPennine Express, which would result in significant additional capacity, making travel easier, more reliable and less crowded on some of the busiest sections of the rail network.
Click to expand...
 
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swt_passenger

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anamyd said:
If that's the case, why were more 350s (the /3s and /4s) made after the 380s were made...? Consistency in the then-London Midland fleet I suppose (then-First TransPennine Express got the 350/4s not 380s because the 350/4s were originally meant to be for then-London Midland, and London Northwestern Railway are finally supposed to be acquiring them.
Click to expand...
The ITT for the 350/3s was publicly available at the time, and interoperability with the /1 and /2 was an explicit requirement, ie coupling and multiple working. As in above reply the 350/4s were definitely tacked onto the order by DfT to save a separate contract, but they were never intended for use by London Midland, the contract for their use after delivery being novated (fully transferred) to TPE.

As you possibly know already, the 380 cab design changes do not allow multiple working with the earlier designs.
 
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