What to do? Passengers on train talking about not having valid tickets

FelixtheCat said:

Not really.


I wouldn't talk about it openly. If I was ever forced to travel without a valid ticket, I wouldn't say anything to anyone.

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Exactly. If someone's announcing it, what does it tell you about them? Hopefully that they're probably someone you want to avoid confrontation with.

mmh said:

Sorry, but your comparison with calling the police to a mugging or burglary doesn't work at all. A completely different situation.

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But applying the same logic that you have used. That logic being that if I tell someone in an authority about a potential crime then it makes me a vigilante/child-like/telling them how to do their jobs.

mmh said:

You should wonder why someone potentially fare dodging next to you would let you know that rather than keeping schtum. There's a high chance they're trying to annoy or intimidate you.

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Three people saying "it's too crowded for the guard to come through, right?" with responses such as "yeah, just enjoy the free ride" and then mentioning all that on the phone to their mother seems suspicious.

mmh said:

I didn't see the teeth knocked out post, but multiple people have quoted the "snitches get stitches" adage. I'm not defending that philosophy, but an awful lot of people live by it.

There's nothing "school playground" about pointing these things out. Running to a guard to say "I think those people might be naughty" could be seen as pretty child-like though.

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"Snitches get stitches" is pretty school playground.

Fare evasion is an offence. It costs TOCs quite a bit of money. I am not convinced that tipping them off about it is the equivalent of telling miss that someone poked me in the eye.

mmh said:

I've mentioned it before on here that I know (an acquaintance, we both know who each other are) who is currently serving a 10 year prison sentence for leaving someone with brain damage after an argument on a train.

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I declined to sign a petition complaining about the length of his sentence, with a lie about my job (very very loosely connected to the judiciary at the time) preventing me from doing so, rather than saying I agreed with it. Sometimes being forthright isn't the right approach.[/QUOTE]
It's lucky that I anonymously tipped the TOC off on Twitter then. It's almost like I'm slightly aware that people might be awful and that it's best to do the right thing without revealing that it is me doing it.

mmh said:

I stand by using the word vigilante and hoping people do "mind their own business".

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What definition of vigilante are you using? I can't find one that matches what I did (IE: tipping off the authorities about something they might want to look at).

I don't have a problem with people who want to mind their own business.

mmh said:

Exactly. If someone's announcing it, what does it tell you about them? Hopefully that they're probably someone you want to avoid confrontation with.

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That they're with other people? That they don't think they'll get caught?
I have found in my life that my brain works differently to others, so assuming that everyone will act the same way as me is not a safe assumption.

OK, I give up. Numerous people have tried to explain why sometimes the best option is sometimes to simply ignore people, and I've given you my experience of, thankfully rare, how badly not ignoring people can go.

I don't think I've any more to contribute here other than to reiterate, be careful, err on the side of caution, and to be frank, stop being so bothered about other people's tickets.

FelixtheCat said:

The £12 minimum only applies for journeys made before 10am and only for some railcards. With the obvious exceptions of things like the Highland Railcard, there are railcard discounted fares for practically every point to point ticket.

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If we're talking about the network card there is a £13 minimum all day Monday to Friday and it isn't valid at all before 10.00. There are no such restrictions at weekends.

Jack15001 said:

If we're talking about the network card there is a £13 minimum all day Monday to Friday and it isn't valid at all before 10.00. There are no such restrictions at weekends.

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My apologies. I'd entirely forgotten about that.

It was I think just over a year ago (maybe 2 or 3) when I not long got off an HST at Platform 1 at Didcot Parkway from Reading or London before I saw someone jump over the ticket barrier which was facing the taxi rank, coming onto platform 1. I was just watching trains as I had enough time before the X2 back home.

As soon as the guy jumped over I pretended to decide it was time to go, meaning I looked at my watch but went in to the concourse and alerted a member of staff without the fare dodger knowing it was me!

If ever any of you see that or in the same situation as me, just pretend you're in a hurry by looking at your watch first but find a member of staff without the culprit knowing - that's the trick.

It happens all the time; often by the time you've alerted somebody, the culprit has gone

Mitchell Hurd said:

It was I think just over a year ago (maybe 2 or 3) when I not long got off an HST at Platform 1 at Didcot Parkway from Reading or London before I saw someone jump over the ticket barrier which was facing the taxi rank, coming onto platform 1. I was just watching trains as I had enough time before the X2 back home.

As soon as the guy jumped over I pretended to decide it was time to go, meaning I looked at my watch but went in to the concourse and alerted a member of staff without the fare dodger knowing it was me!

If ever any of you see that or in the same situation as me, just pretend you're in a hurry by looking at your watch first but find a member of staff without the culprit knowing - that's the trick.

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I've alerted a member staff about a fare dodger before, just shrugged his shoulders.

Smidster said:

Personally I don't see why you would want to intervene. If they didn't have the correct ticket, and if it was a regular thing, they would get picked up sooner or later and I don't see any incentive to act in such a matter. In terms of crime level it is like someone walking round town looking for cars parked on double yellow lines and going running for a parking warden.

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This. There is nothing to be gained from the passenger's perspective except potential trouble.

Like my mum used to say, no one likes a tell tale!

Scott M said:

Kind of off-topic but it really annoys me when passengers are caught without a ticket during rush hour and the guard asks if they want a single or a return, and they invariably ask for a single. Wish the guard would ask “How do you plan on getting back home then?”, but no doubt they would fear getting in trouble if they did, even if they are thinking it.

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To be fair i've missed the train before in the morning because it's been cancelled and i've got the bus. Got the train home on auto pilot and then realised I haven't got a ticket, therefore buy a single home off the guard (no barriers at station). It was much the fault of the network I didn't have a ticket as it was my own (I buy one every morning).

Not everyone without a ticket is trying to fare dodge.

My simple answer to this question: don't be a grass.

It's kind of funny - the whole "you don't grass" laws of the street stance being taken from people who are usually saying that fare-dodgers should be lynched.

And for the record, I agree - hate grasses, hate fare-dodgers. Big proponent of minding one's business.

What I would say though, is that tweeting the TOC is fine, if you are anonymous. Self-preservation first. The principle of people having something for free that you paid for is jarring, I totally get that. But getting up to tell an inspector is too much.

cle said:

It's kind of funny - the whole "you don't grass" laws of the street stance being taken from people who are usually saying that fare-dodgers should be lynched.

And for the record, I agree - hate grasses, hate fare-dodgers. Big proponent of minding one's business.

What I would say though, is that tweeting the TOC is fine, if you are anonymous. Self-preservation first. The principle of people having something for free that you paid for is jarring, I totally get that. But getting up to tell an inspector is too much.

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I entirely agree with your final paragraph. It's roughly the process that I went through at the time.

cle said:

It's kind of funny - the whole "you don't grass" laws of the street stance being taken from people who are usually saying that fare-dodgers should be lynched.

And for the record, I agree - hate grasses, hate fare-dodgers. Big proponent of minding one's business.

What I would say though, is that tweeting the TOC is fine, if you are anonymous. Self-preservation first. The principle of people having something for free that you paid for is jarring, I totally get that. But getting up to tell an inspector is too much.

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Fully agreed.

FelixtheCat said:

I'm overhearing passengers on my train (they're sitting right next to me) discussing about how they either don't have tickets, or don't have valid tickets and their likelihood of being caught.

The train is quite long and quite crowded, so I don't want to get up and look for a member of staff in case my seat is grabbed. Is there a way I can alert on-board staff?

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Simply to avoid conflict, and as others have said, to retain a full set of teeth, probably best to do nothing..

Nothing. Leave them alone. It’s none of your business.

cle said:

And for the record, I agree - hate grasses, hate fare-dodgers.

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Why do you hate grasses, out of interest? A quick look at the dictionary says that to grass is to "inform the police of someone's criminal activities or plans." What objection do you have to someone ever doing that?

Besides the point of what the right thing to do in this situation is, but I don't buy the argument that fare evasion makes the fares higher for everyone else. Commercial companies don't set prices by deciding on a desired level of income, and then dividing that by the number of expected customers. Unregulated fares are set at the level that the TOC believes will make them the most profit.

Dougal2345 said:

Why do you hate grasses, out of interest? A quick look at the dictionary says that to grass is to "inform the police of someone's criminal activities or plans." What objection do you have to someone ever doing that?

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It's a bit tongue in cheek, and quite obviously there is a broad spectrum of severity; comes from school, siblings at home, growing up etc, by no means does that mean I wouldn't inform on a rapist or murderer...

cle said:

It's a bit tongue in cheek, and quite obviously there is a broad spectrum of severity; comes from school, siblings at home, growing up etc, by no means does that mean I wouldn't inform on a rapist or murderer...

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Totally agree with this. There's a level of common sense here. Some people don't seem to have any concept of when getting involved is appropriate. If a crime takes place and people are getting hurt or robbed then doing what you can to stop it or help catch those responsible is a no brainer.

If, however, its sticking your nose in someone else's business like grassing your neighbour for not having a TV license, reporting someone on a train for not having a ticket or telling tales on a little kid in a shop whose got 12p worth of sweets in a 10p bag then that just makes you a bit of a cockroach and a scumbag - someone not to be trusted and the sort of individual most people would do well to avoid.

TOCs have procedures in place for dealing with fare evasion. Railway staff are not stupid, guards and revenue inspectors know every trick in the fare evaders' book. It's not your business and if you decide to go around getting involved in stuff like this then you can have no cause for complaint when you get a smack in the mouth for your trouble or find that you don't get invited to things and people don't trust you.