I will never do a 20 min Eurostar - ICE change at Brussels Midi again

SephenWorceste · 20 Mar 2019

i Have previously not had a problem with a twenty minute change at Brussels. From the Eurostar to a German ICE.

A couple of weeks back it was nearly my undoing. My Eurostar was a couple of minutes late. My carriage was at the far end of the platform. The connections route was closed. Everybody was moving slowly to the buffers, round the corner and down the escalators. I did not know where to go for the ICE. The ICE left a minute or two early.

I just got on the ICE and the doors closed and the train moved off. I cannot believe I was the last person wanting that connection as I walk quite quickly. I presumable could have caught a later ICE as my Eurostar was late, if only by a couple of minutes. My connection in Frankfurt would have been messed up and I may have not made it to Munich. Which may have messed up getting to Venice.

I have learnt my lesson I am always going to book a later ICE and give myself plenty of time in Brussels. In the past I had always been relaxed about a twenty minute connection in Brussels. Never again.

Best wishes, Stephen.

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duesselmartin · 20 Mar 2019

Yes, 20 minutes is very tight I just booked via b-Europe which allows Thalys Eurostar combinations

SephenWorceste · 20 Mar 2019

duesselmartin said:
Yes, 20 minutes is very tight I just booked via b-Europe which allows Thalys Eurostar combinations

I will look at the Thalys next time. I have never been offere the DB discounted London to Germany tickets on these trains but I have never tried b-Europe.

Thank you, Stephen.

30907 · 20 Mar 2019

SephenWorceste said:
I will look at the Thalys next time. I have never been offere the DB discounted London to Germany tickets on these trains but I have never tried b-Europe.

Thank you, Stephen.

DB London Special aren't valid on Thalys.

AlexNL · 21 Mar 2019

That sounds like an incredibly stressful situation, indeed!

Next time, you could consider moving coaches when making the booking, as the corridor in Brussels isn't always available. The Manage booking part on the Eurostar website lets you easily change your seats if you're not happy with the ones assigned to you at booking.

A few years ago I was in a somewhat comparable situation: in Brussels, I had a 15 minute connection onto the last IC train back to the Netherlands. Upon getting on board the Eurostar, me and my travel companions approached the train manager and asked if there were seats available further up front. He looked at his manifest and promptly moved us to something like coach 5 (coming from 13). That saved a lot of time walking to the exit, and we easily made it to our Beneluxtrein

duesselmartin · 21 Mar 2019

You can also stretch the time changing trains on the bahn website therefore extending your break in Brussels to 2:20 hours. Just change the transfer time to at least 30 min.
You can then have lunch in Brussels before going onward by ICE.

Bletchleyite · 21 Mar 2019

This has long been a problem - in about 1999 I remember nearly missing a Thalys connection which was about 15 minutes. DB said it would be fine, it wasn't. Well, it was, but only just.

SephenWorceste · 21 Mar 2019

I should have tried to booked a more appropriate seat, moved seats or walked down the train as it approached Brussels. I was relying on using the quick connections route. I had not thought that might be closed. I do not know if that is a permenant closure or just for some temporary works. Also I thought the longer route would just be a quick walk round the buffers.

I will try the DB website and ask for a longer stay in Brussels. I generally use Loco 2 but I am happy to try another site. As I stay in a hotel near St Pancras the night before an earlier Eurostar is not a problem. Lunch on Brussels would be a nice idea too. Another option for me would be to move my overnight stay from London to Brussels. That way I could be very relaxed in Brussels.

Thank you for your suggestions to help me plan my next trip. It is a while away but is to Alesund in Norway. I hope to combine The train with Color Line Ferry and Hutigruten coastal voyage. I will probably end up having to change from Eurostar to ICE in Brussels.

Thank you, Stephen.

Groningen · 21 Mar 2019

It is stupid to offer such an offer where a transfer of 20 minutes is not possible in Brussel. The next train than in 2 hours? The travelplanner shows an England -Germany train with a transfer of 14 minutes (16.08 - 16.22) in Brussel. Quite dangerous for your ICE train.

S-Car-Go · 21 Mar 2019

If you find the Brussels connection a bit tight, do ask to move to a coach nearer the front. Eurostar check-in or info desk staff in the waiting lounge can do it if there's a free seat. If there isn't, see the train manager for no shows later on.

YorkshireBear · 22 Mar 2019

Is the closure of the passageway between platforms anything to do with the security checks they started doing on Thalys and ICE trains after that bloke was stopped by those US soldiers?

I have the same connection in June from 14:05 to 14:25 on an interrail ticket. I have already made note of the route with 3 changes as a back up to it, travelling on various dutch trains. It is four hours until the next ICE from Brussels to Cologne. I doubt with an ICE interrail reservation we will be able to get on the Thalys three hours later.

I will just have to keep my fingers crossed!! The cost of the hotel the night before in London makes it a bit expensive to set off from London earlier.

Spoorslag '70 · 22 Mar 2019

YorkshireBear said:
Is the closure of the passageway between platforms anything to do with the security checks they started doing on Thalys and ICE trains after that bloke was stopped by those US soldiers?

I have the same connection in June from 14:05 to 14:25 on an interrail ticket. I have already made note of the route with 3 changes as a back up to it, travelling on various dutch trains. It is four hours until the next ICE from Brussels to Cologne. I doubt with an ICE interrail reservation we will be able to get on the Thalys three hours later.

I will just have to keep my fingers crossed!! The cost of the hotel the night before in London makes it a bit expensive to set off from London earlier.

To be fair, the classic line between Luik/Liege and Aachen is probably one of the most scenic routes in the area. If you have enough time, taking a Belgian IC to Welkenrath (Welkenraedt in French) and the stopper to Aachen for a RE train to Köln is what I would recommend. I come to two changes with that (if it's to Köln).

YorkshireBear · 22 Mar 2019

Spoorslag '70 said:
To be fair, the classic line between Luik/Liege and Aachen is probably one of the most scenic routes in the area. If you have enough time, taking a Belgian IC to Welkenrath (Welkenraedt in French) and the stopper to Aachen for a RE train to Köln is what I would recommend. I come to two changes with that (if it's to Köln).

Sorry yes 2 changes I included the change from Brussels midi eurostar to Brussels midi.

Well yes there is that but it arrives three hours later and in the mixed (from railway enthusiast) point of view. I wanted to get a full evening in Cologne. But its good to know the back up is a good journey. It stops any stress.

rg177 · 22 Mar 2019

Seems that the backup would be the 1457 to Eupen as far as Welkenraedt, the 1641 to Aachen, then the 1718 to Köln arriving 1812.

YorkshireBear · 22 Mar 2019

rg177 said:
Seems that the backup would be the 1457 to Eupen as far as Welkenraedt, the 1641 to Aachen, then the 1718 to Köln arriving 1812.

Yep my brain clearly cannot function today at all! It has been a long week, you are indeed correct. Definitely does not feel like the worst back up option.

The 3rd connection I was looking at appears to be changing at Koln-Ehrenfeld onto the S-Bahn to get to Hbf that is just towards the end of the trip due to engineering work at Koln on the weekend of the 22nd June.

But thanks for advice all.

johnnychips · 22 Mar 2019

The connection tunnel was open last week. It seems to be random.

Groningen · 22 Mar 2019

Yes with a date in April is saw also some must changes in Koeln Ehrenfeld.

Capybara · 22 Mar 2019

I've done Brussels to Cologne on many occasions and had problems with the ICE in both directions as well as with the 'classic' route (whose attractiveness I echo). So I always have Plans A, B and C. The connection at Welkendraedt (though SNCB recommends Verviers) is tight and the train to Aachen won't be held if the train from Brussels is more than five minutes late, so I tend to hop on the xx:28 to Welkenraedt, if possible, to make sure. Even if I'm taking the ICE I always allow time at the other end in case I have to go the other way. Apart from that, all the recommendations above are sensible.

cle · 22 Mar 2019

YorkshireBear said:
Is the closure of the passageway between platforms anything to do with the security checks they started doing on Thalys and ICE trains after that bloke was stopped by those US soldiers?

I have the same connection in June from 14:05 to 14:25 on an interrail ticket. I have already made note of the route with 3 changes as a back up to it, travelling on various dutch trains. It is four hours until the next ICE from Brussels to Cologne. I doubt with an ICE interrail reservation we will be able to get on the Thalys three hours later.

I will just have to keep my fingers crossed!! The cost of the hotel the night before in London makes it a bit expensive to set off from London earlier.

The passageway is for Channel Tunnel regulations - i.e. if there was a fire or other incident, the train could split into two (it all being bi-di) and depart in whichever direction.

tasky · 22 Mar 2019

I can confirm the connections route on the Brussels Eurostar platforms is closed essentially at random. I think they close it for security checks, but also at other times. It wouldn't matter if it was predictably closed, but there is no way to tell until you get there which makes it useless as something to rely on.

306024 · 22 Mar 2019

tasky said:
I can confirm the connections route on the Brussels Eurostar platforms is closed essentially at random. I think they close it for security checks, but also at other times. It wouldn't matter if it was predictably closed, but there is no way to tell until you get there which makes it useless as something to rely on.

A couple of weeks ago I was surprised to find it open. Went from the rear coach of the E* to the domestic platforms easily in 10 minutes.

Gadget88 · 22 Mar 2019

Interesting to what made you go via Germany to Venice? Is there any advantages of this route?

I considered doing Edinburgh to Cologne in a day but I have decided two stops there and back in Brussels required.

30907 · 22 Mar 2019

cle said:
The passageway is for Channel Tunnel regulations - i.e. if there was a fire or other incident, the train could split into two (it all being bi-di) and depart in whichever direction.

Don't understand how this relates to the south end subway at Brussels Midi.

gazthomas · 22 Mar 2019

cle said:
The passageway is for Channel Tunnel regulations - i.e. if there was a fire or other incident, the train could split into two (it all being bi-di) and depart in whichever direction.

In Brussels?

SephenWorceste · 22 Mar 2019

Gadget88 said:
Interesting to what made you go via Germany to Venice? Is there any advantages of this route?

I considered doing Edinburgh to Cologne in a day but I have decided two stops there and back in Brussels required.

I wanted to do a scenic route so I chose Munich to Venice via the Brennner Pass. This may not be the same when the Brenner Base Tunnel opens. Also last years trip to Barcelona was messed up by the French train drivers strike so I wanted to avoid French trains for the way out. For the return I did the Venice To Paris sleeper. I slept through the scenery and it was dark anyway. The French customs officers almost messed up my return by the Eurostar this year.

I did once do Worcester to Herford (not Hereford) in a day and the same on the return. They were long trying days. As you say am overnight in Brussels both ways would have been better.

I hope you have a good trip.

Best wishes, Stephen.

SephenWorceste · 22 Mar 2019

S-Car-Go said:
If you find the Brussels connection a bit tight, do ask to move to a coach nearer the front. Eurostar check-in or info desk staff in the waiting lounge can do it if there's a free seat. If there isn't, see the train manager for no shows later on.

Thank you, that is very good advice. I am planning Alesund in Norway next year so it will be through Germany again.

SephenWorceste · 22 Mar 2019

AlexNL said:
That sounds like an incredibly stressful situation, indeed!

Next time, you could consider moving coaches when making the booking, as the corridor in Brussels isn't always available. The Manage booking part on the Eurostar website lets you easily change your seats if you're not happy with the ones assigned to you at booking.

A few years ago I was in a somewhat comparable situation: in Brussels, I had a 15 minute connection onto the last IC train back to the Netherlands. Upon getting on board the Eurostar, me and my travel companions approached the train manager and asked if there were seats available further up front. He looked at his manifest and promptly moved us to something like coach 5 (coming from 13). That saved a lot of time walking to the exit, and we easily made it to our Beneluxtrein

Fifteen minutes is insane. You might make it but often will not. It should not be offered surely.

Best wishes, Stephen.

SephenWorceste · 22 Mar 2019

30907 said:
Don't understand how this relates to the south end subway at Brussels Midi.

I think we are talking about different things. The connection passage in Brussels is a walkway under the platforms that allows a quick change of trains from Eurostar. It is located about half way along the Eurostar platforms.

Best wishes, Stephen.

SephenWorceste · 22 Mar 2019

johnnychips said:
The connection tunnel was open last week. It seems to be random.

I wonder why they are doing that on a random basis?

Best wishes, Stephen.

JonathanP · 23 Mar 2019

SephenWorceste said:
Fifteen minutes is insane. You might make it but often will not. It should not be offered surely.

I agree with your analysis of the liklehood of making the connection.
Is it fair though, that an experienced traveller who knows the risks and has a backup planshould be denied the opportunity to purchase a through ticket? My last connection in Brussels was 14 minutes ES* -> ICE, and on that occasion everything went perfect, and I was on the platform before the ICE was!

SephenWorceste said:
I wonder why they are doing that on a random basis?

Simple. It's pure security theatre, instigated after the Brussels terror attacks, which provides no real security at all. I don't know if I'm going to get abducted by MI6 and prosecuted under anti-terrorism legislation for revealing this 'secret' info, but if for whatever reason you don't wish to be security checked, just get the metro to Brussels Nord where you can board exactly the same train without any security.. or indeed just take a local train or a bus across the border.

I'm a bit surprised to hear of them closing the connection again because I thought those post-airport attack days were over and the last couple of times I went through it was open. I'm going through again on Monday so I'll see what happens then.

I will never do a 20 min Eurostar - ICE change at Brussels Midi again

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