1hr40 visit to Chester: Single Sail Rail flexibility or break of journey?

Excuse my lack of understanding on the definition or practice of 'break of journey'

I'm about to purchase a single (not advance) Sail Rail ticket Dublin - London. Trainline offers a railconnection with a 20 min. stopover in Chester. I'd like to increase my stopover to 1 hr 40 for quick sightseeing and taking a later Virgin train to London on this ticket.

Can this, possibly having a time-mark on my ticket from the Holyhead-Chester leg, be considered a 'break of journey', forcing me a new fare to London in the train? Or would this fall within the stated flexibility in trains?

If this would not be permitted, with the ferry being fixed, I can't see what the 'flexibility' in the conditions refers to. Different routes only? I'm a bit confused here.

If someone could please explain or estimate the consequences, thank you very much.

Roald

Break of journey is not permitted on these tickets. Classically the definition of this is leaving the station other than where you need to do so in order to make a connection. So what you request is unfortunately not allowed. The reason for this restriction is that, in order to compete with low-cost airlines, these tickets are cheaper than many domestic tickets along the route, so it is to prevent people buying these and using e.g. peak time trains Chester-London only.

You may find you get away with it, but you may find it costs you. VT are not prosecution-happy, but you could find yourself having to purchase an expensive Anytime Single.

The flexibility is twofold - you can take varied routes, but also I believe the ferry reservation is changeable.

Break of journey is indeed barred on these particular tickets. However, if you buy your ticket through journey planner offering an itinerary involving a wait of an hour or two at Chester then that would have to be accepted as valid, and you would have to be let out of the station barriers if you wanted to use the station facilities, for example.

If you do manage to sort something out I would recommend that you get the bus from the station to the city as it is a 10/15 minute walk

Roald Fekken said:

Excuse my lack of understanding on the definition or practice of 'break of journey'

I'm about to purchase a single (not advance) Sail Rail ticket Dublin - London. Trainline offers a railconnection with a 20 min. stopover in Chester. I'd like to increase my stopover to 1 hr 40 for quick sightseeing and taking a later Virgin train to London on this ticket.

Can this, possibly having a time-mark on my ticket from the Holyhead-Chester leg, be considered a 'break of journey', forcing me a new fare to London in the train? Or would this fall within the stated flexibility in trains?

If this would not be permitted, with the ferry being fixed, I can't see what the 'flexibility' in the conditions refers to. Different routes only? I'm a bit confused here.

If someone could please explain or estimate the consequences, thank you very much.

Roald

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Buy it in Euro directly from Stena Line (by phone) or Irish Ferries (online). Stena Line are €3 cheaper as they charge no booking fee. Don't bother going to Irish Rail, they're the same price for the same ticket, and I've never been successful in getting them to issue one.

Aside from being marginally cheaper (€47/€50 vs £43.50), the ticket will state on it in two languages that "Break of journey is authorised, without formality, within the limits of the period of validity". The period of validity will be clearly noted on the ticket as being one month from date of issue.

There's a caveat that this doesn't apply to "Saver" tickets on the outward direction, but there is no longer a type of SailRail ticket called a "Saver" available in either direction. In any case, the type isn't even written on the ticket anyway (the one and only difference between an Irish-bought Advance or Standby is the price)

Post 8 of this thread shows images of the tickets where you can see the conditions. Condition 6 is the relevant one. As the ticket stock for these was recently updated (to remove the reference to the no-longer-running "Swansea-Cork Line" and to incorporate the new Irish Rail logo), but the conditions did not change one bit, I can't see them changing any time soon.

ForTheLoveOf said:

Break of journey is indeed barred on these particular tickets. However, if you buy your ticket through journey planner offering an itinerary involving a wait of an hour or two at Chester then that would have to be accepted as valid, and you would have to be let out of the station barriers if you wanted to use the station facilities, for example.

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Though the exit is visible from the barriers, and they will be watching out for misuse.

Bletchleyite said:

Though the exit is visible from the barriers, and they will be watching out for misuse.

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Will they? The railway industry recently decided to withdraw its long-established definition of break of journey.

I could therefore advance the argument that visiting a shop in a retail unit adjacent to but not within the station during a layover time between pre-agreed and speciallly reserved services on a journey undertaken on a through ticket is in fact not a break of journey. Now, there would be a bit more to it than that, and devil's advocacy rarely gains anyone very much. But would you, as the railway company, expect a judge to see your argument that doing what I've just described is a breach of the terms and conditions shortly after you deliberately decided to remove the term that would have made this point clear?

In the absence of a proper definition it is for us to decide using the ordinary meaning of words, including their dictionary definition, what they mean. This one could be convincingly argued both ways.

If I were the OP I would probably not bother, you won't see much of the lovely city in an hour and a half. Still, if it were bought from Irish Rail my experience is that it's fairly clear no break of journey restriction actually applies. For what it's worth some UK websites sell these tickets too and they absolutely do not tell me there is any break of journey restriction, so I don't see how one could possibly apply.

Bletchleyite said:

Though the exit is visible from the barriers, and they will be watching out for misuse.

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Really? I doubt it. But even if they were - turn right into the pub/bar there, and there's another exit from there to the street. It's not hard to slip out.

ForTheLoveOf said:

Break of journey is indeed barred on these particular tickets. However, if you buy your ticket through journey planner offering an itinerary involving a wait of an hour or two at Chester then that would have to be accepted as valid, and you would have to be let out of the station barriers if you wanted to use the station facilities, for example.

Click to expand...

Thanks. It almost worked. However somehow the National Rail planner excludes my 7.30 fast ferry as soon as I tick other than 'recommended' stopover duration. Apparently the fast ferry and a longer stopover together seem to provide too much convenience for a Sail Rail ticket...
Loco2 stops running when a via plus time is inserted. Trainline and VT planners do not offer extra stopover time.
I'm not aware of other planners that offer SailRail. Any tips?
Thanks again

Roald Fekken said:

Thanks. It almost worked. However somehow the National Rail planner excludes my 7.30 fast ferry as soon as I tick other than 'recommended' stopover duration. Apparently the fast ferry and a longer stopover together seem to provide too much convenience for a Sail Rail ticket...
Loco2 stops running when a via plus time is inserted. Trainline and VT planners do not offer extra stopover time.
I'm not aware of other planners that offer SailRail. Any tips?
Thanks again

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Book directly with Irish Ferries (see my last post). Cheaper, no booked trains and break of journey officially permitted (in writing on the ticket - ignore the website or what their staff say, it's clearly written on the ticket).

https://www.irishferries.com/ie-en/specials-from-Ireland-to-Britain/sail-rail/

danm14 said:

Book directly with Irish Ferries (see my last post). Cheaper, no booked trains and break of journey officially permitted (in writing on the ticket - ignore the website or what their staff say, it's clearly written on the ticket).

https://www.irishferries.com/ie-en/specials-from-Ireland-to-Britain/sail-rail/

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I will go with this info.

Thanks all!

ForTheLoveOf said:

Really? I doubt it. But even if they were - turn right into the pub/bar there, and there's another exit from there to the street. It's not hard to slip out.

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For interest, that bar is currently closed.