freetoview33
Established Member
On the press release it doesn't mention the X1 going to every 20 mins
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matt_splat
Member
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would MST be better placed to run the X8 i would expect the X8 will work with the X2 maybe the X6 and X7 interwork? it could be we see busses staying on the routes but drivers changing during the day of course.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
MST??
Whiteway215
Established Member
Very sadly 30875 is parked up in Bath Depot with a blown engine so presumably is unlikely to be repaired.
It doesn’t mention that on the Press Release issued yesterday, but the X1 will be operating a 20 minute frequency off peak and 30 minute frequency peak. Combined with the X1X, there will still be a 15 minute frequency between Weston and Bristol in the AM peak and Bristol and Weston during the PM peak.
Marlborough Street would be ideally suited to operate all of the Clevedon, Nailsea and Portishead services, however the problem lies with space within Lawrence Hill Depot to park the buses and drivers to drive them, whereas Weston Depot has both room to park the buses and drivers to drive them.
The timetables have not been released yet, so no one knows. Inter working the X2 with the X8 would be a sensible idea as they will both operate an hourly frequency and the X2 will be operated by singles which the X8 has to have due to the low railway bridge at Nailsea and Backwell.
The X6 and X7 interworking is also not a bad idea, but it may involve drivers having to travel up and down on the cushions. These should be E400s so should ease some of the overcrowding issues on peak X6 journeys.
Drivers on the current X6/X7/X9 often have meal breaks at Marlborough Street, whereas generally drivers on the X1/X2/X3/X4 have meal breaks in Weston, though there is the odd exception.
Marlborough Street Depot, it’s the abbreviation commonly used nowadays rather than MH.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Aha. Marlborough Street no longer - single O licence and a common pool of vehicles.
As you say, whilst Lawrence Hill would seem to be a more logical location for the Clevedon or Portishead routes, the whole reason they were moved to Weston was because of the crippling driver shortage.
Marcus Fryer
Member
- Joined
- 27 Dec 2014
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- 735
It was also on the m1 today, heading for Cribbs Causeway through Bradley Stoke just before 18:00.
Yes that is true with the First WoW O License rather than separate First Bristol and First Somerset & Avon O Licences, but in terms of staffing, Marlborough Street is still treated as a Depot in its own right. It has its own Operations Manager and falls under control of the ‘Badgerline’ ex Somerset and Avon side of the business alongside Bath, Wells and Weston. Whereas Lawrence Hill operates alongside Hengrove in the ex Bristol side of the business.
It just so happens on the vehicle allocation and maintenance side of things, Lawrence Hill and Marlborough Street share a common pool of vehicles.
diffywood
Member
Map of routes from april 28Th
https://www.firstgroup.com/uploads/...ath-and-west/Excel_Network_A4L_Page_WEB_0.pdf
https://www.firstgroup.com/uploads/...ath-and-west/Excel_Network_A4L_Page_WEB_0.pdf
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Thought it merely acted as a separate rota though with a (declining) pay differential?
Running the X2 off the X8? More orange StreetLites needed?
No, it functions the same as the larger depots with separate rotas for different things e.g. splits, lates etc. I believe the pay rate is creeping towards that of the Lawrence Hill and Hengrove drivers.
The new timetables are not yet available so it is impossible to say what the PVR would be of the X2 and X8 interworking. This would make the most sense to keep singles confined to these routes, with the deckers on the X6 and X7. Currently a round trip on an X8 is around 1hr 35mins with a PVR of 3 busses on a 30 minute frequency, so would need 2 buses for an hourly frequency.
If this was to happen, it would have to be Streetlites as the B7RLEs cannot be used around Weston Village and Locking Castle as they are too long for the roads. There are currently 3 Excel orange Streetlites, so we may see a few more.
freetoview33
Established Member
Bath - £11.22 - Was £10.45 (Jan 17)
Wells - £10.25 - Was £9.35 (Jan 17)
It no longer lists the separate pay rates for the 3 Bristol depots, but they were getting closer, so they can't be far off now.
Wells - £10.25 - Was £9.35 (Jan 17)
It no longer lists the separate pay rates for the 3 Bristol depots, but they were getting closer, so they can't be far off now.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
It did seem that it was a declining differential. Makes sense in many ways - it can be contentious enough when drivers are paid different rates at different depots, but when it's within the same location....
The off peak round trip for the X8 is 82/83 mins (hence the 3 vehicles) and naturally, peak traffic times mean a slight widening of the headways (35-40 min frequency) in peak to allow the 3 vehicles to be used. Moving to an hourly frequency would certainly put quite a bit of slack with two vehicles, so tying it up with the X2 would make some sense. Struggling to recall the W1 times etc, but seem to recall that it was about 80 mins one way (3 boards). You're right that we'd have to wait for the detailed times but intuitively, think 4 vehicles to operate X2/X8 wouldn't be possible? Again, and you'll know better than me, but the W1 was a single deck route (mainly Eclipses 69459/60 plus another) that was then converted to deckers? Was that for operational flexibility or for capacity reasons?
So..... just checking my understanding...
Weston to Bristol is mainly the X1 every 20 mins but with faster peak X1X journeys and slower X2 runs every hour
Long Ashton to Bristol is every 15 mins/4 bph with a half hourly X9 (Abus), hourly X2 and hourly X7.
Clevedon to Bristol has hourly X6 and X7 combining to provide a 30 min/2 bph.
Nailsea to Bristol continues to be every 15 mins/4bph but with a half hourly X9 (Abus), hourly X7 and hourly X8.
So the main casualty is the Clevedon to Yatton bit of route?
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From memory the W1 was around 1 hr 20 minutes I seem to recall, but that was going into Weston down Locking Road, the X2 will be longer as the X7 route takes longer to get into Weston, so maybe 5 vehicles will be better.
I don’t recall what the PVR of the W1 was, but really whatever vehicle was available was used on it. A lot of the time a decker was on it, but it wasn’t uncommon to find any type of single on it. It slowly moved to deckers as the number of singles in Weston diminished and what was left was concentrated on the X5, 126 and 7. The only time it was guaranteed to be a decker was on a Sunday. It was brilliant coming home from Bristol in the evening when this was scrapped and replaced with the X1 & X1As as I got home around 20 minutes earlier. Hopefully there will be an X1X at suitable times.
Yes your understanding is about right. The major cut is indeed the Yatton to Clevedon section of the X7. This section of route has traditionally lost and gained services. Going back to the 823 which used to run from Weston to Clevedon this way, usually with minibuses. Then there was the brief tenure of the 125 when the X25 was numbered this between Weston and Portishead, before changing number at Portishead to the X25 for the last leg up the motorway to Cribbs.
Failand and upper Wraxall will also loose its evening and Sunday service as the X6 will not operate during these times. This means there will not be a bus to the main top entrance of Tyntesfield on a Sunday or Bank Holiday. During these times Wraxall will see increase as it’ll have an hourly X7 and hourly X9. With the X7 running at night and on a Sunday, it would have made more sense for the X8 to run at night and on a Sunday and at night to restore the link between Backwell and Nailsea rather than having 2 buses running the same way.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Thanks for the note back - been so many changes over the years, it's getting tricky to remember. I seem to remember the W1 being a bit of a mix - 69459/60 seemed to be fairly common but as you say, it could be anything - often other Eclipses but a decker and even saw an e200 one day.
Without entering into undue speculation, it'll be interesting to see how the X2/X8 is operated, if it needs additional orange Streetlites, and the overall impact on the PVR. On a wider basis, the Excel fleet is getting on a bit (most of it is 2006/08) and feels like it could do with some updating. Then again, it feels like there's a possible wide number of potential fleet changes - new vehicles, sorting out the Bath hybrids, hired deckers, converting the remainder of the 172-4 boards to B9s and probably more besides.
freetoview33
Established Member
I thought the current eXcel routes worked quite well to be honest, other than the X7 being rather long. But it could have been speeded up if it was the X6 carrying on from Clevedon rather than the X7. Then the X7 could have been the main evening service for both Nailsea and Clevedon (like the old 355).
The X1X is a good idea not sure how it will work on days when there are traffic problems. Shame it couldn't have been introduced in the current set up.
So could these changes see the X5 becoming fully double deckers?
The X1X is a good idea not sure how it will work on days when there are traffic problems. Shame it couldn't have been introduced in the current set up.
So could these changes see the X5 becoming fully double deckers?
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
The issues with Excel (in my limited experience) are the unreliability that is usually outside First's control, usually when the M5 is having issues, or the sun comes out and people head to Weston. Sounds like the X1X has the ability to pick its route so should Avonmouth Bridge/Portway be snarled up, then it could use the A370, A38, A369 (though they'll probably be goosed too!)
Good point about the X5 - could allow some deckers to move there, replacing the two Eclipses and sundry Streetlites that I think have been working that route?
freetoview33
Established Member
That's why I thought in an ideal world there would be a depot around Avonmouth. Where routes such as 1,2,3,4,19,19A,73,75,76,M1,X3,X4,X5,7XP. And maybe the 11/508 if it ever went back to First.
Avonmouth is great for access to the motorways when they're flowing. If they stop flowing then it's a pain. The Portway (with it's bus lane) is useful for getting to central Bristol but not wonderful for anything else. Plus it would compete for staff with all the local employment areas who are always after HGV/parcel delivery drivers who don't have to put up with issues of self loading cargo.
freetoview33
Established Member
I said in an ideal world (without employment issues). There is also Long Cross which is another way to Cribbs from Avonmouth (the 3 route) but then again most buses that terminate at Cribbs run dead back to Lawrence Hill or Hengrove via Passage Road, Canford Lane, Sylvan Way, portway, then to Hengrove they then take the South Bristol link road. And not too sure the route they take from Portway to Lawrence Hill.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
To be fair, Avonmouth ISN'T a very good place to have a depot. Yes, it has road links which is good for Regional Distribution Centres if you're serving the South West and South Wales. However, if it's just for local bus operations, it's on the coast so much of a 5/10 mile radius is in the sea, and there's a limited population to obtain drivers from.
I've mentioned it before (apologies for the repetition) but were First to have another operating centre, I'd be inclined to suggest a Yate/Chipping Sodbury location that could operate the Y routes. More for the ability to recruit staff rather than any savings on dead mileage etc.
The 7XP is already mainly outbased with 2 of the 3 based in Chepstow IIRC.
I think somebody said it had been brought back to LH since the opening up of the welsh border.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Must've missed that. That's been a long standing facility https://www.flickr.com/photos/28431.../photolist-qLw8aV-qTkKAQ-raM5aF-d3bZ7j-4AgRXg
Can only guess as it's cheaper to run across the bridge now, it's not worth the hassle of a very small outbase and trying to cover holidays/sickness etc
freetoview33
Established Member
I did say this in 2015! Although GW said he didn't think it would happen!
EnviroExplorer
Member
Hi again all ‘Bristolers’ ! On further research today I have noticed there are Rail Replacements this weekend from Bristol to Weston, I assume First will be covering these. Anyone any idea of the vehicles to be used? Last year it was Bristol/Bath Unibus MMCs, Bath Uni ALXs and the Lilac fronted Scania MMCs (now on Metrobus/South Glos) plus various Volvo B7RLEs on the stoppers
freetoview33
Established Member
Just a mix as most services how lower PVR on a weekend.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
I struggle to remember what I said last week
I am a bit surprised as it’s 18 miles or so to Chepstow - far enough to warrant an outstation but maybe just not big enough to justify the hassle?
The Unibus vehicles always appear to be first choice as they're high spec and not used at weekends.
freetoview33
Established Member
Fewer are used at weekends!