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Greater Anglia Rolling Stock Updates

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trebor79

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Presumably the 2021 delay is only for the Aventras given the Stadtler stock is already being delivered and tested?
On that note, does anyone know when we might see the first 745 out and about?
 
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Class 170101

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Only testing up/down pantograph on the move still & not drawing power. This can still only be done under an SPZ as far as I am aware so would be in diesel mode.

The video posted above suggests Electric mode for testing without SPZ now permitted. Seemed to be no noise coming from the power pack
 

AC47461

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To me it would make sense to keep the 30 Renatus 321s on for a longer period. Would 30 be enough to cover all the know issues? Hertford East, Wickford-Southminster (ostensibly the bay platforms at Wickford being the issue), anything else? Do any drivers on the West Anglia route sign 321s?
Certainly as a poster above says, it would make sense to keep the 379s for Hertford East though, as that could/would alleviate much/any re-training, although I guess the issue there might be the 2+2 seating. Having said that, I was over that side a few weeks ago and the 317s (even the refreshed ones) look and feel seriously tired (some were worse than that!!), even the grottiest 321s on my route don't feel as bad.

It would be nice to see something else but there doesn't seem any point if there are two fleets of 30 units each, that are PRM compliant, unless there is a 'hidden' Gospel Oak-Barking type issue we don't know about and they've been promised elsewhere....
 

47421

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From a good source.

GA now have all but accepted that their plans to replace trains will be delayed until the first half of 2021, which shouldn't come as any great surprise to anyone here.

There are still discussions ongoing about how to deal with platform length restrictions and there has been talk that that the 317s running on the Hertford East route will be 'changed' for different trains, whatever that means.

Find it weird that they didn't just say they would be replaced by new trains, seeing as how much they like to shout about that. Perhaps indicates that there's something in the rumours that other stock will run there?

What is rumour mill saying about impact of all this on GA's finances? We know from accounts to March 2018 they have already drawn £80m of the £280m shareholder guarantee. Bid was obviously predicated on big increases in capacity from new fleets generating lots of additional revenue to fund big premium payments to DfT. Sort of makes sense on paper - lots of extra seats may well generate additional commuting from people currently discouraged from working in London cus commute is bad eg regular standing from Audley End on West Anglia. But if increases in capacity are 12months plus late that is a massive hit on revenue projections.
 

LAX54

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I would be very surprised but then I have just had two days off. Anything can happen.

Pretty sure it needs an SPZ still, have not heard of any alterations, will check when I get in tonight !
 

AC47461

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I notice that Renatus 321 322 has finally put in an appearance (it could have been around for a bit but I've just seen it myself). Anyone know how the last two (329 & 330) are getting on?
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
I have seen the term "SPZ" used in a couple of recent posts. Could somebody please exactly explain what it means?

I believe it is a long standing forum policy not to use abbreviations, acronyms, or jargon without first saying what it means.
 

Alfie1014

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I notice that Renatus 321 322 has finally put in an appearance (it could have been around for a bit but I've just seen it myself). Anyone know how the last two (329 & 330) are getting on?

Today’s Railways claims this month all have returned. I saw 329 last week but haven’t spied 330 yet?
 

306024

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To me it would make sense to keep the 30 Renatus 321s on for a longer period. Would 30 be enough to cover all the know issues? Hertford East, Wickford-Southminster (ostensibly the bay platforms at Wickford being the issue), anything else? Do any drivers on the West Anglia route sign 321s?
Certainly as a poster above says, it would make sense to keep the 379s for Hertford East though, as that could/would alleviate much/any re-training, although I guess the issue there might be the 2+2 seating. Having said that, I was over that side a few weeks ago and the 317s (even the refreshed ones) look and feel seriously tired (some were worse than that!!), even the grottiest 321s on my route don't feel as bad.

321s are not suitable for West Anglia as many stations don't have the necessary DOO equipment. Which is why West Anglia drivers don't sign them.

379s would be luxury on the Hertford service, at least for the lucky few that would get a seat, but then a 317/7 is luxury on an all stations Cheshunt.
 

306024

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I have seen the term "SPZ" used in a couple of recent posts. Could somebody please exactly explain what it means?

SPZ is Signal Protection Zone. Basically only the relevent test train(s) can operate in the defined area and in the case of testing electric trains all other trains stabled within such a zone must have pantographs lowered so as not to interfere with any test results.

More to it than that but that's the basics.
 

AC47461

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321s are not suitable for West Anglia as many stations don't have the necessary DOO equipment. Which is why West Anglia drivers don't sign them.

379s would be luxury on the Hertford service, at least for the lucky few that would get a seat, but then a 317/7 is luxury on an all stations Cheshunt.

Thanks for the info :) I did wonder about the 379s though because during a visit to Broxbourne a few weeks ago (mostly in the evening peak), one did a Hertford service around 7ish (might have been a bit later).

One question though, and I ask out of genuine ignorance, how do the 317s run now? Platform dispatch at busier stations (I think it was at Broxbourne), DOO elsewhere where possible? I did the Hertford Branch when I went to Broxbourne and I don't recall hearing any whistles but then I wasn't listening either.
 

306024

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The cab design on a 317 allows for a driver to look back along the train, which is no longer considered appropriate but survives due to historical custom and practice. A 321 has a different cab design which makes it much more difficult for a driver to look out of the side window from the driving seat. Some West Anglia stations have fixed equipment, but only the minimum that was needed to make trains DOO back in the day.

Look at all the monitors at Rayleigh (admittedly a curved platform) to see what could be needed for 321 operation on West Anglia.
 

AC47461

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The cab design on a 317 allows for a driver to look back along the train, which is no longer considered appropriate but survives due to historical custom and practice. A 321 has a different cab design which makes it much more difficult for a driver to look out of the side window from the driving seat. Some West Anglia stations have fixed equipment, but only the minimum that was needed to make trains DOO back in the day.

Look at all the monitors at Rayleigh (admittedly a curved platform) to see what could be needed for 321 operation on West Anglia.

Thank you, that all makes perfect sense, and now you said about the cab layout, I've remembered the 317s have a layout more like 315s with a seperate door and cab window whereas the 321s have the smaller cab with a door and window combined. I've never spent enough time over on the West Anglia routes to notice what was and wasn't there, but knowing what is a Rayleigh (cameras, 2 sets of screens on the down and 1 on the up plus all that goes along with that) then that's a lot of stuff to put in.

I was about to say, surely it'll all have to be put in for the 720s anyway, but I guess they'll have side mounted cameras on the trains themselves.
 

LAX54

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I can confirm that the 755 did run under AC Power on Tuesday night :) another step forward.
 

LAX54

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Was that outside a Signal Protection Zone mate?

Yes it must have been, I was not on duty, but the SPZ's are only Trowse - Norwich as you know ! The paperwork we now have says; DIESEL ONLY Liverpool Street to Bow Depot Junction and Ipswich to Needham Market: must be in diesel mode an pan lowered.
Can run with 1 pan raised Bow Depot Jct to Ipswich & Needham Market to Norwich.
 

dk1

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Yes it must have been, I was not on duty, but the SPZ's are only Trowse - Norwich as you know ! The paperwork we now have says; DIESEL ONLY Liverpool Street to Bow Depot Junction and Ipswich to Needham Market: must be in diesel mode an pan lowered.
Can run with 1 pan raised Bow Depot Jct to Ipswich & Needham Market to Norwich.
"It's Happening" :p
 

Wivenswold

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If GA maintenance is being performed under contract by Bombardier and Stadler in future, it would make sense to keep the 379s. From a political point of view having to retain 8 year old trains is better than explaining why they are still using BR-built stock. Having a "luxury" service from Hertford East will go nicely in marketing terms against the Desiros with their ironing board seats, maybe even see some Broxborne services extending to Harlow with the spare capacity in the 30-strong 379 fleet. That too would go down well with the Home Counties GA massif.

Edit: I've started imagining 379s in proper GA livery, I think it will suit them.
 

LAX54

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Think we had a GSM-R glitch tonight.... 1N57 came up as 385 107 ! lol (it was just a 321..wew checked !)


Next week: Triple Pan test Norwich to Diss (3 up @ 100mph) although paperwoprk says it's an 8 car (unless that was changed in the doc)
 
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RailWonderer

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From a political point of view having to retain 8 year old trains is better than explaining why they are still using BR-built stock.
Remember that GA is fundamentally a PR company that happens to run a railway network. They could make a bandit look like a charitable saint if they were contracted to do so.
As for the rolling stock, they could say “we have all modern air conditioned, wifi connected trains with plug sockets.” They’ll find a way to make it sound good for press.
 

sd0733

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If Northern begin to introduce the 331s in May i wonder if the 8 321/9s and 322 units will eventually end up at Ilford to give a bit more fleet resilience for the next 12-18 months. Theyre also PrM modified so gives a few extra units that are done.
 

robert west

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I notice that Renatus 321 322 has finally put in an appearance (it could have been around for a bit but I've just seen it myself). Anyone know how the last two (329 & 330) are getting on?
321329 in service last week not seen 330 yet
 

Aureol Colin

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I wonder why the Pan Up restrictions Liverpool Street to Bow Depot Junction and Ipswich to Needham are in place. Is it dodgy OHLE or Signal interference?
 
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