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Transpennine Route Upgrade and Electrification updates

modernrail

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That is the plan. The upgrade is for the short and medium term and the NPR plan is long term
What if the NPR plan has sections that overlap with sections of significant upgrade on the current line. I am just contemplating a world where there is capacity for 12 trains per hour Huddersfield to Leeds plus let's say 10 express trains per hour into Leeds via the new line. Would we look back in 20 years (not that long, 1999 isn't long ago) and say we could have used the money better.

Don't get me wrong, I am the last person to seek a delay in any investment in the line. It is so long overdue it is not funny. I am just keen that the whole plan is treated as the creation of a system that makes sense for the next 50 - 80 years.
 
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Glenn1969

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Think the NPR is actually likely to mirror the Calder Valley route with talk of stations in Bradford and Rochdale rather than the Transpennine main line via Huddersfield. That is if it happens at all
 

modernrail

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Think the NPR is actually likely to mirror the Calder Valley route with talk of stations in Bradford and Rochdale rather than the Transpennine main line via Huddersfield. That is if it happens at all
Well a bird in the hand and all that. Intrigued to see what does come of NPR rail though, if anything.
 

quantinghome

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What if the NPR plan has sections that overlap with sections of significant upgrade on the current line. I am just contemplating a world where there is capacity for 12 trains per hour Huddersfield to Leeds plus let's say 10 express trains per hour into Leeds via the new line. Would we look back in 20 years (not that long, 1999 isn't long ago) and say we could have used the money better.

Don't get me wrong, I am the last person to seek a delay in any investment in the line. It is so long overdue it is not funny. I am just keen that the whole plan is treated as the creation of a system that makes sense for the next 50 - 80 years.

If we look back to 1999, Leeds station had 10 million passengers per year. It's now over 30 million. Capacity will not be underused.

Look at it this way - the Calder Valley line has substantial traffic even without the long distance trans-pennine flows on it. The same will be true for the Huddersfield line after NPR opens. Total passenger numbers for principal stations on each line are similar:

Calder
Rochdale: 1.2m
Todmorden: 0.6m
Hebden: 0.8m
Halifax: 2.0m
Bradford Int: 3.0m

Huddersfield Line
Dewsbury: 1.7m
Huddersfield: 5.1m
Stalybridge 1.2m

With the fast services moved off, there will be capacity for an intensive metro service - say 4tph all stations, plus a 2tph or even up to 4tph semi-fast service stopping at (say) Stalybridge, Huddersfield and Dewsbury. This sort of frequency is ideal for electric trains, and the planned infrastructure upgrades would allow both semi-fast and metro services to run.
 

YorkshireBear

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From what I have heard about proposals for Mirfield it will be a full knock down and start again job to get the required linespeeds and new platforms and 4th track.
 

61653 HTAFC

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Another planet...
From what I have heard about proposals for Mirfield it will be a full knock down and start again job to get the required linespeeds and new platforms and 4th track.
That's a positive move if true. Removing the bottleneck that is the bi-directional line between Mirfield East and Thornhill LNE junctions would be a big win on it's own, but if the whole "shared" section from Heaton Lodge can be treated as a blank(ish) canvas we can have a railway suitable for the 21st century. It'll be worth a few years disruption if we get it right.
 

YorkshireBear

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That's a positive move if true. Removing the bottleneck that is the bi-directional line between Mirfield East and Thornhill LNE junctions would be a big win on it's own, but if the whole "shared" section from Heaton Lodge can be treated as a blank(ish) canvas we can have a railway suitable for the 21st century. It'll be worth a few years disruption if we get it right.

I have my fingers crossed that such a blank canvas scheme will be authorised.
 

Ken H

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If I worked in the DfT my first challenge to NR would be to explain in very fine detail why our schemes cost more than the EU average, in a line by line basis. It is entirely normal for infrastructure funders/sponsors to rely on benchmarks for an indication of what something should cost. Any variance then has to be justified on a line by line basis. The variance is then interrogated to establish whether the gap can be closed without adversely affecting whole life costs.

In public, NR and many commentators always just refer to a bucket of types of problems apparently unique to our not that unique railway. The more detailed analysis might be taken place in the background but I am not convinced.

Any competent funder/sponsor should also be undertaking this exercise when a project goes outside the tramlines. I very much hope this happened with GW electrification but I fear not. We are in an era of extremely passive and often badly educated project sponsors, particularly on the public side. Government loves to say, 'that's not us, it's down to the experts like NR'. If you are procuring something, especially using public money, your procurement team needs to have sufficient in-house expertise to interrogate absolutely everything. The other tendency is to use external advisors to do this but that doesn't work either as they will never be sufficiently motivated. They also struggle to advise properly where the sponsor's internal project development team does not contain sufficient internal expertise.
because they lumber electrification schemes with costs
Stuff like rebuilding junctions, relaying track. often electrification is a total route modernisation. that isnt bad, just dont limber electrification with other improvements costs
Network rail have to PAY TOC's compensation for when the TOC cant run services due to possessions. that(in UK) is an electrification cost
network rail also have to pay for rail replacement buses, another cost lumbered onto electrification.
 

modernrail

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because they lumber electrification schemes with costs
Stuff like rebuilding junctions, relaying track. often electrification is a total route modernisation. that isnt bad, just dont limber electrification with other improvements costs
Network rail have to PAY TOC's compensation for when the TOC cant run services due to possessions. that(in UK) is an electrification cost
network rail also have to pay for rail replacement buses, another cost lumbered onto electrification.
Surely they write out compensation for franchises that are granted in the knowledge that routes within the franchise will be electrified?
 

driver_m

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Now in the weekly notices that the feeder station at Heyrod is going live from the 29th March. Progress?
 

dilbertphil

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With it nearly coming to the end of March, has anyone got an idea of when this upgrade will be beginning ?

The preparatory work has begun already with various work sites popping up along the route. The last we got told at work was the first 39 week blockade begins earlyish next year and that will be the between Ravensthorpe and Huddersfield.
 

Kieran1990

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The preparatory work has begun already with various work sites popping up along the route. The last we got told at work was the first 39 week blockade begins earlyish next year and that will be the between Ravensthorpe and Huddersfield.

Ouch 39 weeks, glad my job has re-located me from Manchester to Leeds, no more Pennine commute here!
 

Glenn1969

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I think that stretch is still down to be electrified. Will a blockade of that length mean TP diversions via Calder Valley being commonplace in 2020 and affect the Calder Valley Northern timetable as a result?
 

dilbertphil

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I think that stretch is still down to be electrified. Will a blockade of that length mean TP diversions via Calder Valley being commonplace in 2020 and affect the Calder Valley Northern timetable as a result?

Yes, route learning is about to commence for all those who dont sign Calder Valley. TPE will be a common site over there for a few years to come.
 

CdBrux

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The preparatory work has begun already with various work sites popping up along the route. The last we got told at work was the first 39 week blockade begins earlyish next year and that will be the between Ravensthorpe and Huddersfield.

IS this huge blockade public knowledge yet (via official channels and not internet forums!) and what is planned to be done? I cannot imagine that, unless very good alternatives are provided, it's going to be very popular!
 

LNW-GW Joint

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still large gaps in the cable route also no cable in a lot of the route

During a quick run-past this week it seemed to me that the trunking was visually "complete" from Heyrod to Philips Park West Jn, and then mostly incomplete/empty on to Victoria which is the best part of 2 miles.
In some areas it dives underground so it's difficult to know what the state is.
If power is to flow next week there must be another solution, or I'm looking at the wrong cable route.
The route is on the north side throughout, except between Baguley Fold Jn and Miles Platting where it dives under the track to the south side, finally crossing diagonally across all 4 tracks at Miles Platting back to the north side.
 

YorkshireBear

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The preparatory work has begun already with various work sites popping up along the route. The last we got told at work was the first 39 week blockade begins earlyish next year and that will be the between Ravensthorpe and Huddersfield.

How sure are we of this? And how long is the blockade?
 

dilbertphil

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IS this huge blockade public knowledge yet (via official channels and not internet forums!) and what is planned to be done? I cannot imagine that, unless very good alternatives are provided, it's going to be very popular!

AFAIK its in the public domain, the plans are available somewhere with all the details on. At work we were told that there would be a blockade of varying lengths every year for the next few years so that all the required work can take place. It remains to see however what happens as the powers that be seem to change their mind every 2 minutes when it comes to the TP upgrade.
 

Foggycorner

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bolton
During a quick run-past this week it seemed to me that the trunking was visually "complete" from Heyrod to Philips Park West Jn, and then mostly incomplete/empty on to Victoria which is the best part of 2 miles.
In some areas it dives underground so it's difficult to know what the state is.
If power is to flow next week there must be another solution, or I'm looking at the wrong cable route.
The route is on the north side throughout, except between Baguley Fold Jn and Miles Platting where it dives under the track to the south side, finally crossing diagonally across all 4 tracks at Miles Platting back to the north side.
I think the feeder station will be live but that the cable in the route won't be ,ah well small steps
 

Class 170101

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The preparatory work has begun already with various work sites popping up along the route. The last we got told at work was the first 39 week blockade begins earlyish next year and that will be the between Ravensthorpe and Huddersfield.

IS this huge blockade public knowledge yet (via official channels and not internet forums!) and what is planned to be done? I cannot imagine that, unless very good alternatives are provided, it's going to be very popular!

How sure are we of this? And how long is the blockade?

It must be a late change as I cannot see it mentioned in the Engineering Access Statement for December 2019 to December 2020. This sort of access needs to be being communicated to the public now as it is now around 9 months away from the beginning of 2020

I think that stretch is still down to be electrified. Will a blockade of that length mean TP diversions via Calder Valley being commonplace in 2020 and affect the Calder Valley Northern timetable as a result?

A Block there would see diversions via Bradford Interchange and possibly the Calder Valley. Huddersfield could still be served from the east depending on block limits by running via Bradford Interchange, Halifax and Brighouse.
 

Ploughman

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During a quick run-past this week it seemed to me that the trunking was visually "complete" from Heyrod to Philips Park West Jn, and then mostly incomplete/empty on to Victoria which is the best part of 2 miles.
In some areas it dives underground so it's difficult to know what the state is.
If power is to flow next week there must be another solution, or I'm looking at the wrong cable route.
The route is on the north side throughout, except between Baguley Fold Jn and Miles Platting where it dives under the track to the south side, finally crossing diagonally across all 4 tracks at Miles Platting back to the north side.

I thought that there was a policy that all cable, UTX and pipeline crossings had to be at 90 degrees to the track.
Unless specially authorised as an exceptional circumstance.
 

Ploughman

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Does the bridge works at Church Fenton come under this thread?
The other week I noticed a Portacabin encampment established in Ulleskelf yard while works are undertaken on the station bridge at Church Fenton.
Anyone know any detail of what is being done?
 

LNW-GW Joint

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I thought that there was a policy that all cable, UTX and pipeline crossings had to be at 90 degrees to the track.
Unless specially authorised as an exceptional circumstance.

The Stalybridge track is curving sharply at that point.
The crossing may be perpendicular to the Rochdale route, but can't really do that for the Stalybridge route.
There's some kind of cable junction/housing above ground in the triangle between the two routes.
 

driver_m

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Weekly ops notices are saying OLE on P1&2 at Man Vic are going live from April 21st. Also a short section of track east of Victoria, just over 1/3 of a mile long.
 

themiller

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I noticed at Carlisle on Thursday that ASDO beacons have been installed at platforms 1, 3, 4 (all both ends), 5 & 6. I assume these are for TPE.
 

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