ItsGrimUpNorth
Member
Always two populations figures for Carlisle. The 75k refers to the immediate city, whereas inclusion of the many outlying villages sees a figure of just over 100k quoted.
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Northern timetable changes May 2019
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Always two populations figures for Carlisle. The 75k refers to the immediate city, whereas inclusion of the many outlying villages sees a figure of just over 100k quoted.
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transmanche
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Indeed, the city itself has about 75k residents. But the local authority district of the 'City of Carlisle' has about 108k residents and covers some very rural locations, right up to the Scottish and Northumberland borders.
The 'City of Carlisle' local authority district covers over 400 sq miles, somewhat larger than the West Midlands metropolitan county.
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I visit Preston infrequently. I have twice come across ticket inspections down there whilst trying (and succeeding) to make non-advertised connections with the train already in the platform.
323235
Established Member
I beg to differ, Saturday and Sunday Northern services from Stoke - Manchester at the busiest times of the day are generally full , usually before they get to our station.
In terms of interesting routeings, a new 0530 Lancaster to Morecambe via Carnforth service
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y61537/2019/05/20/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y61537/2019/05/20/advanced
Styal/Manchester Airport Line on the other side is similar. xx:00 and xx:13 at Mauldeth Road for instance - prior to May 2018 this was xx:00 and xx:30. Calling patterns are completely screwed on Northern's network. Is it any surprise though given Arriva have been on a suicide mission with the Northern franchise for a while now? All such irregular calling patterns do is turn existing and potential passengers away to cars and bikes. If they want to take that risk then fair enough but don't reinstate services with regular calling patterns in 2 years time when it turns out Northern and its Connect sub-brand are not making the returns they expected because of the lack of connectivity (from irregular calling patterns) and increased delays/cancellations that naturally occur from running longer distance services.
mm333
Member
Looks like it's replacing the current parliamentary 0540 Lancaster-Morecambe-Windermere that does the Bare Lane Junction-Hest Bank Junction track. Lancaster will now have an 0559 to Windermere, first stop Oxenholme https://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/Y60183/2019-05-23
Greybeard33
Established Member
I see that timings of the Liverpool - Crewe services are adjusted slightly from May, in order that services in opposite directions can be booked into the same Airport platform at the same time. The southbound service arrives in Platform 2A from Liverpool at xx52. The northbound from Crewe comes into 2B on top at xx55, then departs for Liverpool at xx59. The southbound follows it out at xy02. What could possibly go wrong?
Glenn1969
Established Member
This train goes via Ordsall and gives Chat Moss line stations an Airport train. Take it that means if they want to they could eventually find a path for a Bradford service?
Greybeard33
Established Member
Between 18:00 and 20:00 the Chat Moss stopper does not have a path through the Castlefield corridor. It runs to and from Victoria instead of the Airport.
The franchise agreement did not require the Bradford - Airport service to start until December 2019. That was on the assumption that Network Rail would deliver Piccadilly Platforms 15 and 16 by then.
Glenn1969
Established Member
This is kind of my point. It could run to and from Victoria all day and the through path could be diverted to the Calder Valley stations which would also give us a Crewe train and a one change WCML connection South. Not saying they will do that though
I guess the question, though, is why give that path to the Calder Valley services vs. how it's used now? Would that benefit more customers / make more money for the TOC than providing the existing service?
Not to mention, is the right stock available to run what would become a diesel or bi-mode diagram as opposed to a pure electric diagram.
Glenn1969
Established Member
As I said not saying they will actually do that or when the Bradford - Airport service will start. Stakeholders here are pushing hard for CV electrification after TP in CP7 but that is a different argument entirely
Glenn1969
Established Member
Castlefield Corridor expansion is still listed as a committed project in the TFGM 5 year plan that was published on January 19. So we will see when they deliver it. Also the Transpennine Upgrade thread says there will be a 39 week blockade of the line through Mirfield from earlyish 2020. No doubt that will also affect Northern's timetable planning for Transpennine route, Wakefield services and maybe Calder Valley during that period
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
According to April Modern Railways, the Castlefield upgrade (Piccadilly and Oxford Road stations) is "unaffordable".
Apparently there are as many as 30 alternative solutions being investigated by NR, TfN, TOCs etc.
TfGM has no money for infrastructure upgrades anyway.
Apparently there are as many as 30 alternative solutions being investigated by NR, TfN, TOCs etc.
TfGM has no money for infrastructure upgrades anyway.
Greybeard33
Established Member
The franchise TSRs required 18 services daily from the Chat Moss stations direct to the Airport. So TfN/TfGM/Merseytravel would have to agree to reallocate those paths to a Calder Valley service.
I believe many Chat Moss users want to retain direct services to Piccadilly.
Glenn1969
Established Member
The document I saw said Castlefield expansion is on a list of "committed projects with secured funding" but failed to say what form the expansion would take
Did my first Saturday trip on the line since the end of the strike yesterday. It was a 2 carriage pacer (rather than the 3 carriage 144 it usually is) which added to its business, but pretty much all the seats were taken throughout between Skipton and Lancaster. Perhaps the route is on the brink of a renaissance !
Glenn1969
Established Member
I think the £7 offer might have something to do with increased numbers on the Bentham line. Will be interested to see how patronage holds up when it ends on 6th April
Well at the moment there are only 10 services per hour from Manchester Pic to Manchester Airport. Back in the days when a reliable timetable operated (the December 2017 timetable was the best one the region has ever seen in my opinion) there were... 11
Maybe. But you do have to have a Dales Railcard to take advantage of that.
Greybeard33
Established Member
Actually there are only 9tph from Piccadilly to the Airport (8tph in the peaks) versus 10tph (9tph in the peaks) before May 2018. Nevertheless your point is well made.
A significant difference is that, of the current 9tph, 8tph (3 TPE, 4 Northern, 1 TfW) are from the Piccadilly through platforms, with only 1tph (TPE) from the main shed. Previously only 5tph (1 TPE, 3 Northern, 1 ATW) were from the through platforms, with the other 5tph (3 TPE, 2 Northern) from the main shed.
Clearly the congestion in the Castlefield corridor has adversely impacted performance, particularly the rerouting of the TPE North services via the Ordsall Chord. And, although there has been a net reduction in Northern services, the new ones are from Liverpool via the CLC line and Preston via Golborne, whereas the replaced services were from Southport via Bolton and from Piccadilly (x2). The longer routes have also increased vulnerability to imported delays.
Addition of a service from the Calder Valley via the Ordsall Chord would clearly risk a further deterioration in performance, unless it replaced one of the existing services through Piccadilly.
agbrs_Jack
Member
Yes the northbound morning two in particular fill up quite a bit at Congleton.
Although an hourly Sunday service would encourage more passengers to travel on Sundays.
The demand is there, hence the franchise commitment.
Whops! But yes as you correctly identify there was a net reduction. Furthermore, in track capacity terms, the abolition of the second hourly all-stations service, which was clearly not a part of the original plan, and the resulting damage to local services done by making trains skip-stop at bizarre intervals, ought to have allowed more trains to run in total. In fact, there are fewer.
It remains quite opaque in my mind how any of the mess created by the Ordsall Chord and ludicrous North TransPennine service level commitment can ever be reconciled with the imputed government decision not to expand through platform capacity at Manchester Piccadilly and the procurement they made of additional Northern services to Manchester Airport.
Yes - and that variation is true of many settlements.
Immediate urban area, district council area and the 'greater' conurbation may vary significantly, especially noticeable in non-'metropolitan county' areas.
It's not so much as a lack of paths (on paper), as much as external pressure when the May 18 timetable changes were first announced - the original plan was that all the chat moss stoppers were to be redirected via Oxford Road (as they all went to Victoria), but the outcry was such that the peak hour services remain at Victoria as a compromise.
Harpers Tate
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I understand that Lincoln - Sheffield - Leeds is intended to be a connect route. These trains will all stop at Saxilby (pop. 3992), Gainsborough Lea Rd (22k), Retford (22k) and Worksop (41k) as they fully replace the current all stops service which is to be truncated at Retford (or Gainsborough). Some will stop at other intermediate stops depending on the time of day.
Greybeard33
Established Member
Gone but not forgotten.... RIP
mm333
Member
Now Streethouse and Featherstone have a Sunday service, what Northern routes still don't have (or plan to have) a Sunday service? Chathill-Newcastle and the Scunthorpe-Donny stopper spring to mind.
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