GWR Unpaid Fare Pre-Court settlement offer with valid tickets and gold card

For the Love of makes good points in this thread

I would have recommended paying the fare due (and not anything more) but...

Adam01273 said:

I called National Rail Enquiries - told them the details of both my tickets and the journey and they told me over the phone that my journey and tickets were valid. And so they put me through to the GWR customer services team over the phone, who also took all my ticket and journey details and also told me it was valid and apologised.

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If you recorded this call or can obtain a copy of it, or get this in writing, I'd not make an offer to pay at this stage. But I wouldn't say I was refusing to pay; I would be stating the facts.

Adam01273 said:

They told me I could appeal if i did receive a fine.
But them the ''Pre-Court Settlement Offer'' comes in the post, demanding payment in 21 days or face prosecution, criminal record and additional fines - with no mention of any right to appeal or dispute.

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There is confusion here; I think they meant you could appeal if you were issued a penalty fare. But this did not happen. A fine cannot be appealed but a fine cannot be issued unless you are found guilty in court.

Adam01273 said:

I think what I am most offended by, is, I am clearly not a criminal or fair avoider, I made every effort to buy a valid ticket and thought I was in possession of one. So why would GWR's first response be to try and prosecute and fine me and not offer for me just to pay the excess fare in this case where both their staff and my own possible misunderstanding was to blame.

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I recommend putting this to one side for now, and deal with the facts. Once it's over, then deal with the poor customer service element. I don't want to go off topic here, so I won't say what I want to say about GWR and what I think of them, as it won't help right now.

I would write to GWR; feel free to ask us to proof read your letter before sending it. Keep the letter concise.

It may also be worth contacting the Rail Ombudsman: https://www.railombudsman.org/

If it does go to court, I'd recommend Penman Sedgwick ( http://www.penmansedgwick.com/PracticeAreas/Criminal/FareEvasion.aspx ); many of the example cases were forum members and some examples were posted on this forum. I'd fully expect a victory in a case like this. But do not attempt to represent yourself.

I don't think trying to reduce the offer of payment will be looked upon favourably by GWR.

I would offer to pay the full fare with any administration fee due, not with discounts or BZ6 fares etc.

I would also expect in this case that they should then refund/not charge that amount if the circumstances are backed up by written evidence (from GWR customer relations or the relevant staff at the station, for example).

causton said:

I don't think trying to reduce the offer of payment will be looked upon favourably by GWR.

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True.

If they had quoted a fare I deemed correct, I'd have definitely just paid that (and yes, get a refund later) but I agree the complicating factor here is that if a fare is to be offered, and it differs from what GWR are saying, some explanation may need to be provided by the customer to explain why a lower fare is appropriate, which may contradict the statement made to the customer by GWR that no fare was due.

So...

causton said:

I would offer to pay the full fare with any administration fee due, not with discounts or BZ6 fares etc.

I would also expect in this case that they should then refund/not charge that amount if the circumstances are backed up by written evidence (from GWR customer relations or the relevant staff at the station, for example).

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...this might be the best way forward, on the basis that the customer has (hopefully) got evidence that GWR are accepting the charge should be cancelled.

A benefit to this is that it will get the legal threat over with much more quickly, which then means customer services can get involved in cancelling any charges. It would also be difficult for GWR to then apply a 'correct' charge at a later date.

Customer Services probably won't want to - or be able to - get involved while it's with the prosecution team. (I won't say what I think of GWR's prosecution department here and now!)

island said:

By any chance did your GWR train back to Reading call at any station in London zones 1-6?

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yes, it was the slower stopping service, not the direct Pad to Reading

UPDATE - having written to GWR prosecutions with all the details of the case and my complaint of the manner in which they were dealing with the case, they have just written to reduce the fine to £24.80

I have paid it to close the case and stop any prosecution - But I will be writing to their customer services department to complain about the way in which their staff and prosecutions have dealt with the case in such an overly hand handed and unnecessarily litigious way

Adam01273 said:

yes, it was the slower stopping service, not the direct Pad to Reading

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This makes a considerable difference. It is my opinion that you have not committed any offence for which you can be prosecuted, if you had a ticket valid for at least the first stop when you entered the train, handed over your ticket when asked, and have not sought to intentionally avoid paying the fare.

Adam01273 said:

UPDATE - having written to GWR prosecutions with all the details of the case and my complaint of the manner in which they were dealing with the case, they have just written to reduce the fine to £24.80

I have paid it to close the case and stop any prosecution - But I will be writing to their customer services department to complain about the way in which their staff and prosecutions have dealt with the case in such an overly hand handed and unnecessarily litigious way

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I'm glad that you managed to get a more agreeable settlement, though I am confused as to how they determined the amount. I fully agree that you should follow up via the Customer Services route to see if you can get the amount refunded.