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Unwanted V250s finally find use

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jayiscupid

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Because I don't think TI are any good (and I don't like the Romance pseudo-airline approach to high speed rail)! But it's OT for this thread.

As for the V250s, they are pig-ugly as well as technically rubbish. Will be interesting to see if they are made to be reliable.


I think the styling was meant to be reminiscent of the original BeNeLux trains - The Hondekop Trein. Whether it's successful or not is personal taste but I can see where they were trying to go. It's a shame they couldn't have fitted a coupler cover though considering how many faults they had it's unlikely it would ever be closed!

*neither photo is mine.

Hondekop15.jpg tn_nl-Fyra_on_test-HS.jpg
 

MisterT

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Not exactly. The original design had a design speed of 220 km/h and didn't include that particular nose. The maximum speed was raised to 250 and the nose had to be altered to meet the new crash worthiness requirements.

images.jpeg
 

jayiscupid

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Not exactly. The original design had a design speed of 220 km/h and didn't include that particular nose. The maximum speed was raised to 250 and the nose had to be altered to meet the new crash worthiness requirements.

View attachment 48809

Thanks, wasn't aware that they had another design for 220kmh (which in my opinion is much prettier!). Seems they've gone full circle and are now procuring a fleet of 200km/h Coradia's. Makes you wonder what the business case was for 250km/h and why they've now abandoned it.
 

James James

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They seem to have made a pretty good fist of their high-speed network though, including some very long tunnels, and most of the trains are locally built.
Over here the Fiat-designed Pendolinos are pretty good (didn't start too well, granted), but there's French Alstom in there too, not to mention Preston electrics.
The Fiat ETR 470 Pendolinos had a pretty bad reputation in Switzerland - that was partly due to inadequate maintenance being performed in Italy, but even after taking over maintenance in Switzerland they still required far too much work. The ETR 610 seems to be doing a bit better, but is an Alstom product.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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The Fiat ETR 470 Pendolinos had a pretty bad reputation in Switzerland - that was partly due to inadequate maintenance being performed in Italy, but even after taking over maintenance in Switzerland they still required far too much work. The ETR 610 seems to be doing a bit better, but is an Alstom product.

The New Pendolinos (ETR610 etc) are still produced at the ex-FIAT Savigliano factory though (as were the tilting bodyshells of our 390s).
Presumably they have Alstom (French) electrics though, as well as those naff table lamps in 1st class that seem to be an Alstom trademark.
 

jayiscupid

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Livery and plans changed again as the ETR700 are now destined for Silver Arrow services in Italy instead of Red Arrow high speed...

(that means these trains have had 4 livery variations and as yet haven't gone into squadron service!)

 
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Groningen

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Who is it possible that in Italy this train does not fall apart or maybe it can still happen. What it interesting that power supply in Belgium was 1.500, 3.000 and 25.000 Volts. How is this in Italy? Ha; just not the 1.500, but those other 2! So almost nothing to change there.
 

gysev

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Who is it possible that in Italy this train does not fall apart or maybe it can still happen. What it interesting that power supply in Belgium was 1.500, 3.000 and 25.000 Volts. How is this in Italy? Ha; just not the 1.500, but those other 2! So almost nothing to change there.

Belgium never had 1500 V DC. Besides, desintegrating interiors and doors falling off at platforms have nothing to do with the power supply...

At the time of the Fyra desaster, I was a senior traffic controller at Bruxelles-Midi signalbox. I can assure you that the few weeks they ran (at least in theory...) were a complete nightmare. I will always remember the first day of Fyra. I worked the afternoon shift and when I asked my collegue who had worked the early shift how the trains were doing, he told me that the first departure at Brussels had left on time but that train "went technical" at Antwerp and ended there. After that, not one single Fyra had left or arrived ! During my shift, not one train made it to Brussels... When they ran, we quickly learned not to put another train behind a Fyra in the Brussels North-South tunnel. More often than not, the Fyra would have problems departing Brussels-Central and the next train would have been blocked as well. Interesting times indeed !

As a railfan, I never managed to photograph a Fyra in service. When I wanted to capture the test runs in Belgium, the trains were always cancelled or the Fyra was hauled by a diesel because of technical problems.
 

Mag_seven

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I've added the introductory paragraph from the linked article to comply with the forum rules:

Ferrovie.info reports: This is ETR700 no.13. It is on its way from Pistoia to Florence-Osmannoro today. The picture shows the AnsaldoBreda V250 train, formerly known as Fyra, in its new livery for Trenitalia. The Italian rail operator decided to acquire and update these 250 km/u fast trains after the Belgian and Dutch railways refused the EMUs. Torino – Venezia is mentioned as a possible future connection on which the ETR700s will be operated.
 

AlexNL

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Frecciaargento means "silver arrow", this train is way too silvery for a white arrow (”Frecciabianca") ;)
 

eastwestdivide

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Note that that article is from August last year.

There's a more recent one (in Italian) from earlier this month (March 2019) at
http://www.ferrovie.it/portale/articoli/8251
including pictures and video
In vista della prossima istituzione di collegamenti Frecciargento tra Milano e Lecce, prosegue la fase di pre-esercizio degli ETR.700 iniziata a febbraio (vedi News ferroviarie del 05/02/2019)...
My rough translation: ahead of the upcoming Frecciargento services between Milan and Lecce, trials of the ETR700 started in February...
 

LNW-GW Joint

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This is the Railway Gazette version:
https://www.railwaygazette.com/news...-in-italy.html?sword_list[]=etr700&no_cache=1
The trainsets are now designated ETR 700. Trenitalia is planning to use them this summer on the Adriatic coast route, which has been upgraded to permit 200 km/h operation. The Milano – Bologna – Ancona – Pescara – Bari – Lecce route is expected to be the first to be operated using V250 trainsets, followed by Venezia – Bologna – Bari – Lecce.

No mention of service on the Torino-Venezia route.

Before we rubbish Pistoia products entirely, they also (under the Hitachi brand) produce the ETR1000 (joint design with Bombardier) and some Class 80x units for First Group.
 

d9009alycidon

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...and also the The IC4 inter-city train for Denmark which ended up giving no end of problems, but at least they made it into service, except for the one that was given as a free sample to Libya!!
 

superalbs

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...and also the The IC4 inter-city train for Denmark which ended up giving no end of problems, but at least they made it into service, except for the one that was given as a free sample to Libya!!
Now some live out their days in Romania.
 

Groningen

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In Romania it is joined with other working material from the Netherlands nicknamef the Wadloper.
 

gingerheid

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Are we having a forum sweepstake as to how long they last in service this time?
 

dgl

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Just convert them to 750V DC 3rd rail and give them to SWR's Wimbledon depot for mainline service (Portsmouth/SWML), if they can fix 458's twice then they'll have them working reliably in no time :D
 

jayiscupid

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Belgium never had 1500 V DC. Besides, desintegrating interiors and doors falling off at platforms have nothing to do with the power supply...

At the time of the Fyra desaster, I was a senior traffic controller at Bruxelles-Midi signalbox. I can assure you that the few weeks they ran (at least in theory...) were a complete nightmare. I will always remember the first day of Fyra. I worked the afternoon shift and when I asked my collegue who had worked the early shift how the trains were doing, he told me that the first departure at Brussels had left on time but that train "went technical" at Antwerp and ended there. After that, not one single Fyra had left or arrived ! During my shift, not one train made it to Brussels... When they ran, we quickly learned not to put another train behind a Fyra in the Brussels North-South tunnel. More often than not, the Fyra would have problems departing Brussels-Central and the next train would have been blocked as well. Interesting times indeed !

As a railfan, I never managed to photograph a Fyra in service. When I wanted to capture the test runs in Belgium, the trains were always cancelled or the Fyra was hauled by a diesel because of technical problems.


That's really interesting and great to get a report first hand of the experience. I also wanted a photograph of them in service as there is something attractive in how ugly they are. I guess it's a trip to Italy at some point once they prove more reliable than when they worked Fyra!
 

Craig2601

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Interesting, will the Frecciabianca service from Milan to Lecce continue or is it changing over to Frecciargento? If not, that means there will be 3 Frecce services on that route!
 

stut

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That's really interesting and great to get a report first hand of the experience. I also wanted a photograph of them in service as there is something attractive in how ugly they are. I guess it's a trip to Italy at some point once they prove more reliable than when they worked Fyra!

You can also experience the Danish IC4s if you fancy. There's nothing like a constant rattle all the way from Copenhagen H to Aarhus H!
 

Iskra

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These trains will enter service between Milan and Taranto via the East coast of Italy this week I believe.
 

AlexNL

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They entered service yesterday on the Milan - Ancona route. For now they will work two trains Ancona -> Milan in the morning, and two Milan -> Ancona in the evening.

Three trains have been delivered to Trenitalia so far, out of 17 ordered.
 
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