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Why do they offer two prices for the same journey and ticket type?

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StateOfPlay

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Screenshot 2019-03-27 at 19.20.03.png Hi all,

I am buying 2 tickets for a rail journey to London on Saturday from Biggleswade train station. I am buying a travelcard as I will be using the underground and DLR.
I get offered Super Off Peak for £42.40 and the same ticket type again for £58.40. Both standard class.
I just can't see what the difference is between the two other than price.
 
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Quakkerillo

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I just looked on BRFares, and the 58.40 tickets (which actually says 1-6* on your screenshot) is valid ALL days as super off-peak, with time restrictions, while the 42.40 one is only valid on Saturdays, Sundays, and Bank Holidays, and on those days at all times.
So the 42.40 (2*21.20) should do as you want to go on a Saturday.
 

StateOfPlay

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I just looked on BRFares, and the 58.40 tickets (which actually says 1-6* on your screenshot) is valid ALL days as super off-peak, with time restrictions, while the 42.40 one is only valid on Saturdays, Sundays, and Bank Holidays, and on those days at all times.
So the 42.40 (2*21.20) should do as you want to go on a Saturday.

Cheers, that makes sense. I couldn't work it out from the Thameslink site.

Thank you.
 

Haywain

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Unfortunately, it seems to be beyond the wit of the TOCs to simply set up some types of ticket to not be valid on Saturdays and Sundays when they have introduced cheaper tickets that are in all other ways identical. It is difficult to believe it is too complicated.
 

Fawkes Cat

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Unfortunately, it seems to be beyond the wit of the TOCs to simply set up some types of ticket to not be valid on Saturdays and Sundays when they have introduced cheaper tickets that are in all other ways identical. It is difficult to believe it is too complicated.
But surely this is the same logic as allowing first class ticket holders to travel in standard? The bad news is that if you buy the more expensive ticket you could have travelled for less, but the good news is that the more expensive ticket will always allow travel.
 

mmh

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But surely this is the same logic as allowing first class ticket holders to travel in standard? The bad news is that if you buy the more expensive ticket you could have travelled for less, but the good news is that the more expensive ticket will always allow travel.

It's a single day ticket though, there's no reason to sell the Monday to Friday priced ticket for a Saturday or Sunday.
 

Haywain

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It's a single day ticket though, there's no reason to sell the Monday to Friday priced ticket for a Saturday or Sunday.
Indeed, and as it is possible to prevent sale of the weekend only ticket on Monday to Fridays it is difficult to believe the opposite cannot be done.
 

Mainline421

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Unfortunately, it seems to be beyond the wit of the TOCs to simply set up some types of ticket to not be valid on Saturdays and Sundays when they have introduced cheaper tickets that are in all other ways identical. It is difficult to believe it is too complicated.
SWR have done this, but it just lead to more problems. For example Bournemouth to Southend now costs more at the weekend as the normal Super Off Peak tickets can't be purchased, yet no weekend version exists http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=BMH&dest=0411
 

Bletchleyite

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SWR have done this, but it just lead to more problems. For example Bournemouth to Southend now costs more at the weekend as the normal Super Off Peak tickets can't be purchased, yet no weekend version exists http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=BMH&dest=0411

If the weekend is busier that might be intentional.

This is one of the downsides of "simplification". The ticket should probably be called a Weekend Super Off Peak Day Travelcard, which would make it clear what it was, but it isn't allowed to be called that.
 

Fawkes Cat

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Indeed, and as it is possible to prevent sale of the weekend only ticket on Monday to Fridays it is difficult to believe the opposite cannot be done.

Ok. The forum has spoken. It is not for me to argue.

When are we going to get the first one in Disputes:

'I always travel to BigTown on a £20 weekday ticket. Last Saturday, for the first time ever I went to BigTown at a weekend and bought my usual ticket. Imagine my surprise when the Nasty Man at the ticket barrier pulled me to one side and told me that I should have bought a £15 weekend ticket but because I didn't buy one of those I didn't have a valid ticket so would need to pay a penalty fare as well as the £15.

'I think I acted perfectly reasonably beating the Nasty Man and fifteen railway police officers to a pulp but the survivors seem to disagree and I am remanded in custody until my murder trial starts.

'Is there any way I can get the railway to let me off? I am happy to pay the outstanding fare.'
 

superalbs

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Ok. The forum has spoken. It is not for me to argue.

When are we going to get the first one in Disputes:

'I always travel to BigTown on a £20 weekday ticket. Last Saturday, for the first time ever I went to BigTown at a weekend and bought my usual ticket. Imagine my surprise when the Nasty Man at the ticket barrier pulled me to one side and told me that I should have bought a £15 weekend ticket but because I didn't buy one of those I didn't have a valid ticket so would need to pay a penalty fare as well as the £15.

'I think I acted perfectly reasonably beating the Nasty Man and fifteen railway police officers to a pulp but the survivors seem to disagree and I am remanded in custody until my murder trial starts.

'Is there any way I can get the railway to let me off? I am happy to pay the outstanding fare.'
But they wouldn't have the ticket if it's not for sale on those days!
 

Paul Kelly

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But they wouldn't have the ticket if it's not for sale on those days!
Well that assumes that the electronic data is correct and all retail outlets have been programmed correctly, which isn't always a sure assumption.
 

infobleep

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Well that assumes that the electronic data is correct and all retail outlets have been programmed correctly, which isn't always a sure assumption.
Well how about the ticket is valid but it just doesn't show up.

There are other valid tickets that don't show up on booking sites.
 

Mark J

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Unfortunately, it seems to be beyond the wit of the TOCs to simply set up some types of ticket to not be valid on Saturdays and Sundays when they have introduced cheaper tickets that are in all other ways identical. It is difficult to believe it is too complicated.

Since when has it been determined that "peak times" also exist at the weekend?

For example with SWR, traveling to Waterloo on a Weekend Super Off Peak, is only valid for arrival BEFORE 9:30am, or after 11am. You cannot travel from Waterloo between 16:00 and 18:30.

Surely the whole point is to encourage people to use the railways at the weekend with tempting fares, not be put off?
 

MichaelAMW

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If you get yourself a Two Together railcard for £30, on the assumption you might travel with the same person again, you'd save half the cost on this first outing.
 

Hadders

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If you get yourself a Two Together railcard for £30, on the assumption you might travel with the same person again, you'd save half the cost on this first outing.

A Network Railcard is probably better if travelling from Biggleswade. Can be used if travelling alone and also as part of a group of upto 4 adults and 4 children.

Key downsides are the £13 minimum discounted fare on weekdays and the restricted area (basically the south east).
 

Starmill

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Some weekend trains are busier than weekday ones.
So what? A number of companies have a deliberate policy of charging their lowest rates at times of greatest demand. Saturday mornings are a great example of that, but Thursdays and Fridays leaving London around 1900 are also common examples.

The quietest times of day are usually midweek around 1100 - 1300. Some companies deliberately charge higher fares at this time of day, when trains are pretty much at their emptiest possible, than at the weekend.
 

Fawkes Cat

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So what? A number of companies have a deliberate policy of charging their lowest rates at times of greatest demand. Saturday mornings are a great example of that, but Thursdays and Fridays leaving London around 1900 are also common examples.

The quietest times of day are usually midweek around 1100 - 1300. Some companies deliberately charge higher fares at this time of day, when trains are pretty much at their emptiest possible, than at the weekend.

Examples please - both of higher fares being charged and of it being deliberate.
 

Deerfold

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Examples please - both of higher fares being charged and of it being deliberate.
The OP is an example - the travelcard valid from Monday lunchtime is more expensive than the one valid at 10am on Saturday or Sunday.

If you'd rather not use Travelcard fares, the same is true for the equivalent Super Offpeak returns.
 

Starmill

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Examples please - both of higher fares being charged and of it being deliberate.
The one in this thread for a start.

But if you take Peteroborough to London on Thameslink, Bournemouth to London on South Western Railway and Cambridge to London on Greater Anglia and Wellingborough to London. Thameslink's fares were introduced years ago, the others have all followed in more recent times. Some of the differences in fares are astronomical. Wellingborough to London arriving at 1105 on a weekday costs £70.50 return, the trains after that arriving in the early afternoon are £48.50 return. At the weekend, all of these trains cost £27 return. I could keep on giving more examples but there's a premium on time. It's plain that it's deliberate given many of these fares are recently introduced at competitive levels, undercutting the prices charged on so-called working days, presumably because they are scared of losses from corporate customers, many of whom will travel with Off Peak tickets now because of their employer's expenses policy.

Of course, some companies have gone down the road of Saturday restrictions on Super Off Peak, including WMT (their tickets aren't cheaper at weekends though - ironically they recently chose to withdraw their cheaper ticket which was valid Monday - Thursday only) and SWR (although not on all tickets, confusingly).

So there's not always a need to stimulate demand.
This is precisely the point though. It's less important to them how busy trains are, relatively, on weekends, which was your claim. It's more important to them what they think the elasticity of the people paying the bills is. It isn't the first time I've said it and I doubt it will be the last.

This just proves it's price differentiation, not demand based.
Exactly. The same thing applies to Advance ticket sales.
 
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najaB

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This is precisely the point though. It's less important to them how busy trains are, relatively, on weekends, which was your claim.
I made no claim. Please don't put words in my mouth.

Thank you.
 
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