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NEW NRM Collection strategy

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DarloRich

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Following on from posts in this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...lot-spacecraft-going-on-display.157795/page-4

I have decided to open a new thread relating to the recently announced changes to the NRM collection strategy. The details may be found here: https://blog.railwaymuseum.org.uk/the-way-ahead-working-rail-vehicles-at-the-science-museum-group/

NRM said:
Since the National Railway Museum opened in 1975, there has been a history of operating vehicles from the collection.
Showing our rail vehicles in action is one of the most direct tools we have to share our values with visitors: revealing wonder and igniting curiosity.

As we move towards our 50th anniversary, we have sought to define our priorities and to create a clear strategy that covers all vehicle operation at our museum sites, at heritage railways and on the main line.

The strategy will span the next 15 years and will cover the National Railway Museum in York, Locomotion in Shildon and the Science and Industry Museum in Manchester.

The main point guiding this strategy is the view that as museums, displaying collection objects is the best way for us to tell engaging stories and to reach a wide audience.

However, there will continue to be an important role for operational locomotives at our sites, at heritage railways with our loan partners and on the main line.

The strategy covers all forms of motive power (steam/diesel/electric), plus a full variety of vehicles – locomotives, powered units, carriages and wagons. It also looks to the future of what may or may not become eligible for operation when additions are made to the collection.

The strategy identifies five core steam locomotives for operating on our sites, so that four can be in service at any one time. It also identifies three diesel locomotives, three diesel railcars or units, and three electric vehicles which might operate. In the longer term, there is potential for the electric vehicles to be battery operated.

The Science Museum Group (SMG) will run both passenger and goods trains for visitors at our sites, with rolling stock to match specific periods and seasons. A unique offer, for example, will be the chance to ride in an open coach behind the replica Rocket. Despite it being a challenge in wet weather, it is nevertheless a unique experience!

We intend to continue operating steam locomotives Flying Scotsman and Oliver Cromwell (following its scheduled overhaul) on the main line. As the Group’s key focus in coming years will be the transformation of its York and Shildon sites, no further main line steam restorations will be considered until after 2021. After this point, there is potential to consider operating steam locomotive Green Arrow on the main line for the first time since 2008.

Vehicles selected for long-term exhibition at SMG sites will not be considered for loan or operation as we seek to use them to tell the wider story of railways through our displays. In line with this, SMG will not operate diesel and electric locomotives on the main line, but these locomotives will be kept in a condition that allows them to be transported by rail if required for loan or display. I would like to thank all our diesel volunteers for their service over the past ten years and in particular, for the excellent care and attention that the King’s Own Yorkshire Light Infantry (KOYLI) locomotive no. 55002 has received.

I realise that that some people would like to see historic diesels continue to operate on the main line. However, we feel that in most cases, the best way to discover the story of a particular locomotive is by seeing it in person at one of our museums. There are also considerable operational demands and risks inherent in main line operation which are not sustainable for the Group or necessarily in the best interests of the locomotives.

There are several vehicles currently on loan for operation on heritage railways, and this will continue to be an important part of our activities. Completion of a new vehicle store at Locomotion will limit the number of vehicles loaned only for collections care and vehicle loans will be assessed on their own merits and in accordance with the needs and wishes of the Group and of borrowers.

The strategy is a dynamic document and realises the practicalities and resources required to manage our collection; therefore, it will be reviewed each year to keep it relevant and achievable. Managing the collection effectively is our obligation and this strategy is key to that part of our activity.

With this strategy the Group will continue to have the largest fleet of operational preserved historic locomotives in the UK, as well as an unrivalled collection of static items and exhibits at our five museums. This will enable us to continue to engage and inspire future generations about the past, present and future of the railways.

Since the National Railway Museum opened in 1975, there has been a history of operating vehicles from the collection.
Showing our rail vehicles in action is one of the most direct tools we have to share our values with visitors: revealing wonder and igniting curiosity.

As we move towards our 50th anniversary, we have sought to define our priorities and to create a clear strategy that covers all vehicle operation at our museum sites, at heritage railways and on the main line.

The strategy will span the next 15 years and will cover the National Railway Museum in York, Locomotion in Shildon and the Science and Industry Museum in Manchester.

The main point guiding this strategy is the view that as museums, displaying collection objects is the best way for us to tell engaging stories and to reach a wide audience.

However, there will continue to be an important role for operational locomotives at our sites, at heritage railways with our loan partners and on the main line.

The strategy covers all forms of motive power (steam/diesel/electric), plus a full variety of vehicles – locomotives, powered units, carriages and wagons. It also looks to the future of what may or may not become eligible for operation when additions are made to the collection.

The strategy identifies five core steam locomotives for operating on our sites, so that four can be in service at any one time. It also identifies three diesel locomotives, three diesel railcars or units, and three electric vehicles which might operate. In the longer term, there is potential for the electric vehicles to be battery operated.

The Science Museum Group (SMG) will run both passenger and goods trains for visitors at our sites, with rolling stock to match specific periods and seasons. A unique offer, for example, will be the chance to ride in an open coach behind the replica Rocket. Despite it being a challenge in wet weather, it is nevertheless a unique experience!

We intend to continue operating steam locomotives Flying Scotsman and Oliver Cromwell (following its scheduled overhaul) on the main line. As the Group’s key focus in coming years will be the transformation of its York and Shildon sites, no further main line steam restorations will be considered until after 2021. After this point, there is potential to consider operating steam locomotive Green Arrow on the main line for the first time since 2008.

Vehicles selected for long-term exhibition at SMG sites will not be considered for loan or operation as we seek to use them to tell the wider story of railways through our displays. In line with this, SMG will not operate diesel and electric locomotives on the main line, but these locomotives will be kept in a condition that allows them to be transported by rail if required for loan or display. I would like to thank all our diesel volunteers for their service over the past ten years and in particular, for the excellent care and attention that the King’s Own Yorkshire Light Infantry (KOYLI) locomotive no. 55002 has received.

I realise that that some people would like to see historic diesels continue to operate on the main line. However, we feel that in most cases, the best way to discover the story of a particular locomotive is by seeing it in person at one of our museums. There are also considerable operational demands and risks inherent in main line operation which are not sustainable for the Group or necessarily in the best interests of the locomotives.

There are several vehicles currently on loan for operation on heritage railways, and this will continue to be an important part of our activities. Completion of a new vehicle store at Locomotion will limit the number of vehicles loaned only for collections care and vehicle loans will be assessed on their own merits and in accordance with the needs and wishes of the Group and of borrowers.

The strategy is a dynamic document and realises the practicalities and resources required to manage our collection; therefore, it will be reviewed each year to keep it relevant and achievable. Managing the collection effectively is our obligation and this strategy is key to that part of our activity.

With this strategy the Group will continue to have the largest fleet of operational preserved historic locomotives in the UK, as well as an unrivalled collection of static items and exhibits at our five museums. This will enable us to continue to engage and inspire future generations about the past, present and future of the railways.



Over to you. I expect i will disagree with much of what follows.

PS I am surprised it took the cognoscenti here so long to notice this news!
 
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E50019

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Has policy changed on manufacturing replacements parts then? 60800 and its cylinder block come to mind if its being considered for a return to action..?
 
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The full document is an interesting read and, while (a) I do feel a bit sorry for the 'KOYLI Group' after all their hard work and (b) I know most enthusiasts have a real bee in their bonnet about locos (in particular) being 'stuffed and mounted', this sentence in the report really stood out for me: "We recognise that having a number of locomotives with damaged or missing components does not represent good collections care."

Personally I think having locomotives that are complete, in good order and under cover is better than having them incomplete or awaiting parts and potentially deteriorating while stood out in the rain.

But noted that it's shrewd enough to want to keep the Class 37 operational for 'da kidzzz' ;) Interestingly, no mention of the Class 47, though.

At least with KOYLI, the Western and the class 40 there are alternative preservation groups whose locos you can see at work. Although it does surprise me a little that the NRM has disposed of unique assets (like the T3), whereas these three loco types are well-represented elsewhere in preservation.

Also interesting that: "three electric vehicles are also identified as possibilities for operation"

Let the wild electric operation speculation commence! :D
 
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Neil Urquhart

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The NRM has a difficult job, everybody expects them to do what they personally want, but they're a public body, don't have unlimited funds and have to be accountable for what funds they do spend. There's nothing in the diesel collection that isn't represented elsewhere (with the exception of the HST power car). I can see why main line running might not only be regarded as expensive in terms of preparation but also there's the potential for a loco to suffer a serious failure whilst running at speed and then the NRM are left with a broken loco and a bill. They had their fingers burned with 4472 and it's the overhaul and I wonder how much that is causing them to think carefully about the liabilities involved in operating locos. I'm not 100% sure, but I suspect that as part of the SMG, that there are certain requirements on the management to ensure that exhibits are conserved and looked after on behalf of the nation.

What I do hope is... firstly the NRM will continue to keep some exhibits out on loan such as 41001, that short-term visits to events will also remain an option (the document suggests that this will be the case) and that for the non-operational locos and stock they can be properly looked after and interpreted at the various sites. It's not enough for them to be in a tent out the back or tucked away in a corner. The money that will be saved by not operating them should be used to enhance their interpretation. I do think that the NRM may underestimate the interest from "normals" about more recent exhibits. To give an example, I took part in an open day at a bus depot. Lots of old buses on show and I would have expected the public to be all over the Leyland, Daimler and Guy half cabs and not be too fussed about the rear-engined Atlanteans and Olympians. Not a bit, most public attending identified with the buses they travelled on as children and in more recent times, our 1972 Leyland Atlantean was far more popular that I would have expected with people in their 30s and 40s who would have travelled on these things. So NRM, don't underestimate how many of your visitors might be appreciative of diesels and electrics as well steam.

Also remember, none of this is forever... Oliver Cromwell was taken to Bressingham and for a long time it was assumed that it would never leave, but it did. Who is to say that D200 or KOYLI won't be resurrected in a decade when interests change?
 
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The NRM has a difficult job, everybody expects them to do what they personally want, but they're a public body, don't have unlimited funds and have to be accountable for what funds they do spend. There's nothing in the diesel collection that isn't represented elsewhere (with the exception of the HST power car).
The hardcore spotterati might disagree on the question of D5500 / 31018, but that would be splitting hairs ;)
I can see why main line running might not only be regarded as expensive in terms of preparation but also there's the potential for a loco to suffer a serious failure whilst running at speed and then the NRM are left with a broken loco and a bill.
Indeed and I agree. One only needs to look at what happened to Alycidon recently.
 

Peter Mugridge

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Has policy changed on manufacturing replacements parts then? 60800 and its cylinder block come to mind if its being considered for a return to action..?

It has long been suggested that a new block could be cast and used while the defective original would be kept aside and could in the future be placed back in it for originality when not being used for a long period of time. I suspect something along those lines would be how they would manage this locomotive.
 

yorksrob

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Also interesting that: "three electric vehicles are also identified as possibilities for operation"

Let the wild electric operation speculation commence! :D

The 2BIL was fully operational when it went up North.

Plandampf on the Seaford branch anyone :)
 

xotGD

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Am I the only one too thick to find the full report?

As someone who sadly requires D6700 for haulage, I'm keen to read it!
 

sprinterguy

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Am I the only one too thick to find the full report?

As someone who sadly requires D6700 for haulage, I'm keen to read it!
I think this is the document that you're after:
https://group.sciencemuseum.org.uk/...19/03/op-rail-vehicle-strategy-2019_FINAL.pdf

Rest calm in the knowledge, folks, that both the LEV1 Leyland railbus prototype and a production class 142 Pacer are both intended to be fully operational and available for public use. :lol: Such shining examples of British engineering and innovation will rub shoulders proudly with "Flying Scotsman", and I'm sure fully assuage the disappointment felt by those hankering after an operational 40, 'Western' or 'Deltic'. :p
 

theblackwatch

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Also interesting that: "three electric vehicles are also identified as possibilities for operation"

Let the wild electric operation speculation commence! :D

Not sure there needs to be much speculation - the NRM's document lists the 306 & 313 units as bing for "potential passenger rides across SMG sites and main line use".
 
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Not sure there needs to be much speculation - the NRM's document lists the 306 & 313 units as bing for "potential passenger rides across SMG sites and main line use".
I didn't mean wild speculation about the units, I meant wild speculation about how to run them on the juice if not on the national network - i.e. at SMG sites. Sonething this and other forums generally does a rip-roaring trade in ;)
 

theblackwatch

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I didn't mean wild speculation about the units, I meant wild speculation about how to run them on the juice if not on the national network - i.e. at SMG sites. Sonething this and other forums generally does a rip-roaring trade in ;)

Sorry, I misunderstood, although I think that has been partly answered by the NRM too...

"The use of innovative battery technology to power electric units overcomes problems of operating or maintaining an electric train capable of taking live power from an overhead wire or third rail. As with the replicas, operating an electric unit is something only the NRM could offer, and has potential to attract assistance from railway engineering companies, both practical and financial. Keeping the vehicles live protects systems within the units and assists with collections care. However, there are significant conservation and cost implications associated so this is currently viewed as a longer term aspiration."
 

xotGD

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I think this is the document that you're after:
https://group.sciencemuseum.org.uk/...19/03/op-rail-vehicle-strategy-2019_FINAL.pdf

Rest calm in the knowledge, folks, that both the LEV1 Leyland railbus prototype and a production class 142 Pacer are both intended to be fully operational and available for public use. :lol: Such shining examples of British engineering and innovation will rub shoulders proudly with "Flying Scotsman", and I'm sure fully assuage the disappointment felt by those hankering after an operational 40, 'Western' or 'Deltic'. :p
Thanks very much for the link to the document. Yes, the policy when it comes to the diesel fleet is rather puzzling.
 

43096

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Sorry, I misunderstood, although I think that has been partly answered by the NRM too...

"The use of innovative battery technology to power electric units overcomes problems of operating or maintaining an electric train capable of taking live power from an overhead wire or third rail. As with the replicas, operating an electric unit is something only the NRM could offer, and has potential to attract assistance from railway engineering companies, both practical and financial. Keeping the vehicles live protects systems within the units and assists with collections care. However, there are significant conservation and cost implications associated so this is currently viewed as a longer term aspiration."
That is almost straight out of the DfT "bionic duckweed" manual on alternative power sources - i.e. where the word "diesel" is strangely absent.

If the NRM can't afford to keep much more than Flying Moneypit on the mainline, how will it find funding for "innovative battery technology"?
 

theblackwatch

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That is almost straight out of the DfT "bionic duckweed" manual on alternative power sources - i.e. where the word "diesel" is strangely absent.

If the NRM can't afford to keep much more than Flying Moneypit on the mainline, how will it find funding for "innovative battery technology"?

Presumably from the assistance from railway engineering companies, both practical and financial mentioned. Unless they get a few strong elastic bands. :lol:
 

DarloRich

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That is almost straight out of the DfT "bionic duckweed" manual on alternative power sources - i.e. where the word "diesel" is strangely absent.

If the NRM can't afford to keep much more than Flying Moneypit on the mainline, how will it find funding for "innovative battery technology"?

Fairly obviously via a commercial arrangement with a company keen to showcase their product and demonstrate it's effectiveness.

That or handa down the back of the sofa!
 

DarloRich

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Thanks very much for the link to the document. Yes, the policy when it comes to the diesel fleet is rather puzzling.

Perhaps fs makes money and diesels dont. I suspect that is becuase train buffs have notoriously short arms and deep pockets and will happily watch locomotives but not pay to travel on them often enough
 

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Perhaps fs makes money and diesels dont. I suspect that is becuase train buffs have notoriously short arms and deep pockets and will happily watch locomotives but not pay to travel on them often enough
And because if you lined up D200, D8000, 55002, D1023, D6700, 47798 and 31018 in a row most members of the public would say to their kids “Look, there’s an old diesel”, before walking on to the royal train exhibit/Mallard/The Bullet Train etc.
That’s just the way it’ll always be.
 

43096

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Presumably from the assistance from railway engineering companies, both practical and financial mentioned. Unless they get a few strong elastic bands. :lol:
Any company wanting to demonstrate “innovative battery technology” is going to go to one of the ROSCOs and use a surplus 319, 321, 350 or whatever. The ROSCOs are much better placed to do that, having in-house engineering design resource and knowledge of the fleets. With the best will in the world the (N)RM doesn’t have anything like that and what it does have is heavily steam-oriented. I’m afraid it is pie-in-the-sky wishful thinking.
 

DarloRich

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And because if you lined up D200, D8000, 55002, D1023, D6700, 47798 and 31018 in a row most members of the public would say to their kids “Look, there’s an old diesel”, before walking on to the royal train exhibit/Mallard/The Bullet Train etc.
That’s just the way it’ll always be.

As the report says it is about telling a story. Diesels are part of that story so have to be presented in context and displayed appropriately
 

Cowley

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As the report says it is about telling a story. Diesels are part of that story so have to be presented in context and displayed appropriately
Yes definitely, but there’s not that much difference between them and a limited amount of space to display them is what I should have added.
 

43096

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Yes definitely, but there’s not that much difference between them and a limited amount of space to display them is what I should have added.
You could make the same argument about kettles, though.
 

DarloRich

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Yes definitely, but there’s not that much difference between them and a limited amount of space to display them is what I should have added.

I guessit depends what story you want to tell at a particular time and use an appropriate machine.

Thise stories will change from time. Say: express passenger, freight, holidays, technology, change and innovation, star exhibits etc.

No museum can preernt the same thing in the same way over and over again.

Personally I think this story based approach is the hook to get people looking at MORE than just mallard.

However I am not a sentimentalist so might have a different view.
 

Cowley

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True enough chaps.
I must admit I haven’t been there’s for years now so I don’t really know what it’s like there these days.
 

edwin_m

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For DC stock they could have a battery tender plugging into the depot supply receptacles if the units have them, and built to a low height so it could be pushed as well as pulled. Various presevation groups have done this for trams, though usually with a generator, but just about any sort of battery ought to be perfectly adequate for shuffling back and forth in a siding. Not so easy with AC though.
 

43096

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For DC stock they could have a battery tender plugging into the depot supply receptacles if the units have them, and built to a low height so it could be pushed as well as pulled. Various presevation groups have done this for trams, though usually with a generator, but just about any sort of battery ought to be perfectly adequate for shuffling back and forth in a siding. Not so easy with AC though.
Perhaps Stadler have a spare "power pack" from a 755 sat around looking for a home that could be used... Or perhaps not.
 

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Don't know if this is 100% true but have heard that the pair of DMUs the 101 & 108 are staying active.

Steam wise they've apparently got plans to get green arrow steaming again.
 
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Sorry, I misunderstood, although I think that has been partly answered by the NRM too...
"The use of innovative battery technology to power electric units overcomes problems of operating or maintaining an electric train capable of taking live power from an overhead wire or third rail. As with the replicas, operating an electric unit is something only the NRM could offer, and has potential to attract assistance from railway engineering companies, both practical and financial. Keeping the vehicles live protects systems within the units and assists with collections care. However, there are significant conservation and cost implications associated so this is currently viewed as a longer term aspiration."
Ah, missed that bit! Thanks :)
Why not read the documents linked above?
Now now, DarloRich. You know that an internet forum wouldn't be an internet forum without regular "I heard", "I presume" or "They've apparently", despite the facts being available via a couple of minutes consorting with Uncle Google... or somebody having provided a link upthread ;)
 
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