• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Expansions for Scotland's rail network proposed

Status
Not open for further replies.
S

Stopper

Member
Joined
11 Nov 2017
Messages
651
Altnabreac said:
Growing Lothians and Borders (previously Edinburgh Suburban Enhancement Programme)
Double lead junction at Portobello.
Doubling Portobello - Newcraighall including Brunstane Station
Electrifying South Suburban Line for freight and diversionary capacity

7Cities Connectivity (previously Greenhill Junction remodel and Dunblane to Perth Corridor Enhancement)
Greenhill Junction Grade Separation
Resignalling / level crossing closure / electrification from Dunblane - Perth
Perth remodelling / station rationalisation
New Perth Depot
New Double track section on Highland Mainline (Newtonmore - Kingussie / Kincraig?)
More double track on Elgin - Inverness section of A2I

Scotland East to England Connectivity (ECML corridor enhancement)
Calton North Tunnel 2 tracking
Bi directional third line through Abbeyhill
New parallel double track Prestonpans - Dunbar

Edinburgh Waverley western approach enhancements
New electrified Almond Chord with grade separation at Winchburgh and Turnhouse

East Kilbride/Barrhead corridor enhancement
Double track Busby - East Kilbride
Electrification from Muirhouse to Barrhead and East Kilbride

Far North Line corridor enhancement
Lentran Dynamic Loop
Kinbrace Passing Loop
Level Crossing / signalling enhancements
Click to expand...

Good post.

The Almond Chord is vital to solving capacity/overcrowding issues on the E-G aswell as reducing conflicting movements at Newbridge Jn and spreading passenger use vs Park & Gateway. It would also give Croy & Falkirk High direct links to the surrounding area of Edinburgh Park. Would also allow future scope for possible 6tph on the E-G which is 100% needed, as well as possible increased frequency on the SDA whether it be via Newbridge or Gateway. I don’t think EGIP can properly be complete until the Almond Chord is built, there is still overcrowding in the peaks.

Electrification Dunblane-Perth is interesting. Given there isn’t a regular Glasgow-Dunblane local service, would this mean Edinburgh-Dunblane services would be extended to Perth? The only other services that would really benefit from that would be the LNER bi-modes which could stay pan-up until Perth. Unless it was straight through to Dundee I don’t think there are any current services that would benefit from it.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

najaB

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
30,764
Location
Scotland
Stopper said:
The only other services that would really benefit from that would be the LNER bi-modes which could stay pan-up until Perth. Unless it was straight through to Dundee I don’t think there are any current services that would benefit from it.
Click to expand...
Today, no. But Scotrail are likely to be in the market for bi-modes to replace the HSTs in about 8 to 10 years.
 
C

Class 170101

Established Member
Joined
1 Mar 2014
Messages
7,932
najaB said:
Today, no. But Scotrail are likely to be in the market for bi-modes to replace the HSTs in about 8 to 10 years.
Click to expand...

CP7 (or even CP8) may well be upon us by then so electrification may well have reached beyond Perth by the time the HSTs are replaced using the next tranche of money.
 
najaB

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
30,764
Location
Scotland
Class 170101 said:
CP7 (or even CP8) may well be upon us by then so electrification may well have reached beyond Perth by the time the HSTs are replaced using the next tranche of money.
Click to expand...
Even if it hasn't, it is a fair bet that Scotrail's next fleet of Intercity stock will be bi-mode. So even wires to Perth & Markinch would be useful.
 
Last edited:
M

mcmad

Member
Joined
11 Mar 2015
Messages
978
Altnabreac said:
The projects appear to be deliberately vague at this stage, they obviously want Network Rail to work up more detail before announcing any project's exact outputs. Let me try and put my best guess as to what each one might actually consist of:

Growing Lothians and Borders (previously Edinburgh Suburban Enhancement Programme)
Double lead junction at Portobello.
Doubling Portobello - Newcraighall including Brunstane Station
Electrifying South Suburban Line for freight and diversionary capacity

7Cities Connectivity (previously Greenhill Junction remodel and Dunblane to Perth Corridor Enhancement)
Greenhill Junction Grade Separation
Resignalling / level crossing closure / electrification from Dunblane - Perth
Perth remodelling / station rationalisation
New Perth Depot
New Double track section on Highland Mainline (Newtonmore - Kingussie / Kincraig?)
More double track on Elgin - Inverness section of A2I

Scotland East to England Connectivity (ECML corridor enhancement)
Calton North Tunnel 2 tracking
Bi directional third line through Abbeyhill
New parallel double track Prestonpans - Dunbar

Edinburgh Waverley western approach enhancements
New electrified Almond Chord with grade separation at Winchburgh and Turnhouse

East Kilbride/Barrhead corridor enhancement
Double track Busby - East Kilbride
Electrification from Muirhouse to Barrhead and East Kilbride

Far North Line corridor enhancement
Lentran Dynamic Loop
Kinbrace Passing Loop
Level Crossing / signalling enhancements

The main big loser from previously mooted projects seems to be any thought of a Dunfermline bypass from Inverkeithing - Halbeath which is entirely absent. My preference has always been for that line to head all the way to Perth / St Madoes anyway so I'm not devastated to see the Halbeath version of it absent in CP6.

The Transport Scotland news release also mentions that new routes being assessed through STAG at the moment like Levenmouth or Hawick can be added to the pipeline should the business cases come back positive.
Click to expand...
Given the budget available for CP6 then I expect a lot of the above schemes will only progress through the option process and very few (Portobello, Perth new depot, Something at EK) will actually be completed.
 
A

Altnabreac

Established Member
Joined
20 Apr 2013
Messages
2,414
Location
Salt & Vinegar
mcmad said:
Given the budget available for CP6 then I expect a lot of the above schemes will only progress through the option process and very few (Portobello, Perth new depot, Something at EK) will actually be completed.
Click to expand...

I'd expect more than that to happen but there probably isn't the money for everything listed in my post to happen in CP6. That's part of the philosophy behind the new pipeline system. Projects no longer have to be tied to being 100% complete in a single Control Period and you don't have to have an exact list of projects at the beginning of a control period.

Instead you can work up the detail of several projects and then choose which ones have the best business cases and add in new schemes like Levenmouth if they are shown to be value for money.
 
R

railjock

Member
Joined
30 Jun 2012
Messages
373
Altnabreac said:
I'd expect more than that to happen but there probably isn't the money for everything listed in my post to happen in CP6. That's part of the philosophy behind the new pipeline system. Projects no longer have to be tied to being 100% complete in a single Control Period and you don't have to have an exact list of projects at the beginning of a control period.

Instead you can work up the detail of several projects and then choose which ones have the best business cases and add in new schemes like Levenmouth if they are shown to be value for money.
Click to expand...
The railway goes agile.
 
C

clc

Established Member
Joined
31 Oct 2011
Messages
1,302
Altnabreac said:
The projects appear to be deliberately vague at this stage, they obviously want Network Rail to work up more detail before announcing any project's exact outputs. Let me try and put my best guess as to what each one might actually consist of:

Growing Lothians and Borders (previously Edinburgh Suburban Enhancement Programme)
Double lead junction at Portobello.
Doubling Portobello - Newcraighall including Brunstane Station
Electrifying South Suburban Line for freight and diversionary capacity

7Cities Connectivity (previously Greenhill Junction remodel and Dunblane to Perth Corridor Enhancement)
Greenhill Junction Grade Separation
Resignalling / level crossing closure / electrification from Dunblane - Perth
Perth remodelling / station rationalisation
New Perth Depot
New Double track section on Highland Mainline (Newtonmore - Kingussie / Kincraig?)
More double track on Elgin - Inverness section of A2I

Scotland East to England Connectivity (ECML corridor enhancement)
Calton North Tunnel 2 tracking
Bi directional third line through Abbeyhill
New parallel double track Prestonpans - Dunbar

Edinburgh Waverley western approach enhancements
New electrified Almond Chord with grade separation at Winchburgh and Turnhouse

East Kilbride/Barrhead corridor enhancement
Double track Busby - East Kilbride
Electrification from Muirhouse to Barrhead and East Kilbride

Far North Line corridor enhancement
Lentran Dynamic Loop
Kinbrace Passing Loop
Level Crossing / signalling enhancements
Click to expand...

We know the budget for enhancements in CP6 is £820 million - how much of the above could be built for that? Top of my list would be Almond Chord and EK doubling and electrification.
 
M

mcmad

Member
Joined
11 Mar 2015
Messages
978
As I said above for £820m (does that also including finishing off EGIP/SDA/Shotts etc?) will get you the new feeder at Currie, the 2 new ECML stations (but probably no service for them!), Robroyston station, Portobello junction the associated double track towards newcraighall and possibly a double junction then at Newcraighall, the new depot at Perth as an enabler for a CP7 Perth station remodel, EK partial redouble possibly with electrification. I can't find cost for the original Almond Chord but Norton Bridge which had fewer major civils structures was ~£250m so Almond is likely somewhere north of £350m. Given how long the planning process will take I can see this spanning the CP6 and 7 funding.

North of the central belt will have to have something too, a small amount of HML work and something for the FNL and WHL lines?
 
M

mcmad

Member
Joined
11 Mar 2015
Messages
978
Would also have to now add on the additional costs of not only working on an existing electrified line but the new rules around OLE clearance will increase the costs of the flyovers somewhat.
 
najaB

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
30,764
Location
Scotland
mcmad said:
...the new rules around OLE clearance will increase the costs of the flyovers somewhat.
Click to expand...
Don't see why, really. Building a bridge 12.5cm taller than you would have isn't really going to increase the cost by any significant amount. What was expensive was redoing work that had already been done, or redesigning what had already been designed.
 
R

route:oxford

Established Member
Joined
1 Nov 2008
Messages
4,949
Stopper said:
Electrification Dunblane-Perth is interesting. Given there isn’t a regular Glasgow-Dunblane local service, would this mean Edinburgh-Dunblane services would be extended to Perth? The only other services that would really benefit from that would be the LNER bi-modes which could stay pan-up until Perth. Unless it was straight through to Dundee I don’t think there are any current services that would benefit from it.
Click to expand...

Well, there was a regular Glasgow-Dunblane local service prior to the Alloa reopening. These days the semi-fasts take longer than the local services pre-Alloa. The old 2-hourly fasts to Glasgow (which gave Dunblane people direct services to/from Perth) took just 32 minutes - now it's closer to 40. In 1995, I could get the 17:28 Aberdeen service, or 17:58 Elgin service from Glasgow and be in Tesco buying my dinner at 18:00 or 18:30 respectively.

To me, electrification to Perth along with signalling improvements is a bit of a no-brainer.

Ideally it will allow a Glasgow-Perth "local" service, preferably with additional stations at Dunblane North and Blackford. Maybe even sorting out the pricing on the route where a peak 12 minute, 10 mile return journey from Gleneagles to Dunblane costs £14.30 - just 60p less than the 40 minute, 32 mile journey peak return from Dunblane to Glasgow.
 
G

Ginaro

Member
Joined
23 Aug 2016
Messages
119
Location
Scotland
Altnabreac said:
Double lead junction at Portobello.
Doubling Portobello - Newcraighall including Brunstane Station

The main big loser from previously mooted projects seems to be any thought of a Dunfermline bypass from Inverkeithing - Halbeath which is entirely absent. My preference has always been for that line to head all the way to Perth / St Madoes anyway so I'm not devastated to see the Halbeath version of it absent in CP6.
Click to expand...
I'm assuming the Portobello junction changes would mean this single track section would be doubled, and another crossover on the ECML bit? https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/55.94708/-3.10742

The Dunfermline bypass seemed to come from someone who had just looked at a map but not considered the topography in the middle and connections at either end. Surely a more cost effective way of helping Perth trains through Fife would be to add double track near Newburgh, perhaps at the same time as adding a station?
 
47271

47271

Established Member
Joined
28 Apr 2015
Messages
2,983
Ginaro said:
Surely a more cost effective way of helping Perth trains through Fife would be to add double track near Newburgh, perhaps at the same time as adding a station?
Click to expand...
The Ladybank-Perth line needs a lot more doing to it than that if it's ever going to play a proper part in Scotland's intercity network, but going by the announcements made it's going to trundle on as sleepy 15 mile single track section for some time yet.

At the rate we're going at, the best chance to speed up Edinburgh-Inverness trains in the long run will be bimodes running under the wires between Falkirk and Perth.
 
najaB

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
30,764
Location
Scotland
47271 said:
...but going by the announcements made it's going to trundle on as sleepy 15 mile single track section for some time yet.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't necessarily say that. There are enhancements which could be made that wouldn't be included in a "big bang" announcement like this.
 
T

Tobbes

Established Member
Joined
12 Aug 2012
Messages
1,242
najaB said:
I wouldn't necessarily say that. There are enhancements which could be made that wouldn't be included in a "big bang" announcement like this.
Click to expand...

How hard would it be to redouble the 15 miles throughout? Has the track been moved to the middle of solum, or is it one former line?
 
najaB

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
30,764
Location
Scotland
Tobbes said:
How hard would it be to redouble the 15 miles throughout? Has the track been moved to the middle of solum, or is it one former line?
Click to expand...
I believe that most (if not all) of the line has always been single track.

Edit: Seems I was wrong, according to RailScot it was singled in the 1930s.
 
Last edited:
C

clc

Established Member
Joined
31 Oct 2011
Messages
1,302
47271 said:
The Ladybank-Perth line needs a lot more doing to it than that if it's ever going to play a proper part in Scotland's intercity network, but going by the announcements made it's going to trundle on as sleepy 15 mile single track section for some time yet.

At the rate we're going at, the best chance to speed up Edinburgh-Inverness trains in the long run will be bimodes running under the wires between Falkirk and Perth.
Click to expand...

Perhaps the Scottish Government has aspirations for a more game changing intervention to be revealed in STPR 2, ie. a new line from Inverkeithing to Perth?
 
M

mcmad

Member
Joined
11 Mar 2015
Messages
978
najaB said:
Don't see why, really. Building a bridge 12.5cm taller than you would have isn't really going to increase the cost by any significant amount. What was expensive was redoing work that had already been done, or redesigning what had already been designed.
Click to expand...
Give the tight location at the winchburgh end, getting the height from the existing track to get up and over wasn't going to be cheap or easy in the first place. Having to now extend that due to the additional height required will add to the cost. By how much only time will tell.
 
E

EdinburghTrain

Member
Joined
4 Sep 2016
Messages
37
Has there ever been any discussion of a station at Kirkliston if the Almond Chord is built? Seems like it'd be a bit of a no brainer, and fairly easy to do.
 
PaulLothian

PaulLothian

Member
Joined
27 Sep 2010
Messages
679
Location
Linlithgow
EdinburghTrain said:
Has there ever been any discussion of a station at Kirkliston if the Almond Chord is built? Seems like it'd be a bit of a no brainer, and fairly easy to do.
Click to expand...
Population less than 5000, and a couple of miles to Dalmeny or the proposed Winchburgh station would all suggest this is unlikely, even before considering impact on timetabling.
 
S

Stopper

Member
Joined
11 Nov 2017
Messages
651
PaulLothian said:
Population less than 5000, and a couple of miles to Dalmeny or the proposed Winchburgh station would all suggest this is unlikely, even before considering impact on timetabling.
Click to expand...

Especially when you consider that the faster services will be sent that way. There isn’t much case for the shuttles to stop there and that may be all that goes that way.
 
J

JohnR

Member
Joined
23 Jul 2010
Messages
492
I noticed this morning a most unusual improvement.

Barry Links now has a brand new Passenger Information Screen.

Do any other stations which have only one a train a day in each direction have that? Is this the station with the least amount of use to have one?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top