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Market Harborough Station Upgrade

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Flying Phil

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There’s track near the platform ends in the second picture, if you zoom in...
Yes, they have laid tracks through the cutting and one track under the Great Bowden road bridge. There is also a cross-over just North of the platform ends. There are pictures earlier in the thread - post #199.
 
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Flying Phil

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This is posted in the MML Electrification thread but would seem appropriate here also......
Interestingly in this months "Railway Magazine", on P11, in an article arguing for "Rolling Electrification".....it mentions MML wiring as ..".(since extended to Market Harborough)". Is this journalistic optimism, or does somebody know something?
 

hwl

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This is posted in the MML Electrification thread but would seem appropriate here also......
Interestingly in this months "Railway Magazine", on P11, in an article arguing for "Rolling Electrification".....it mentions MML wiring as ..".(since extended to Market Harborough)". Is this journalistic optimism, or does somebody know something?
As rumoured for the last 10 months on the MML electrification thread and also discussed on the previous page of this thread.
 

swt_passenger

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This is posted in the MML Electrification thread but would seem appropriate here also......
Interestingly in this months "Railway Magazine", on P11, in an article arguing for "Rolling Electrification".....it mentions MML wiring as ..".(since extended to Market Harborough)". Is this journalistic optimism, or does somebody know something?
I’d say it isn’t 100% confirmed, as was discussed a week or more back. Modern Railways also reported it as an apparently “done deal”, but that isn’t what the parliamentary answer actually said.
 

Denis103

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Had to laugh when I found out the previous 40mph crossover is being replaced by a 25mph one. And the south end signals are also not viewable from the platform. Cracking job by NR as always....
What you have to bear in mind is that the existing signals were there to protect the junction. Now the junction has moved to the north end of the station there is now no need to have the signals on the end of the platform as today. All the scenarios have been gone through with regard to the position of all the signals in the new layout for all proposed train movements from about 4 miles north of Market Harborough to approximately the same distance towards Kettering. Full signal sighting carried out and full risk assessments completed under the requirement for scheme plan approval.
 

Denis103

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The signals are moving. I believe theres maybe going to be a banner repeater, but no AWS, which obviously brings its own risks.
All new main aspect signals are to be fitted with AWS. You do not put AWS on banner signals.
 

Senex

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What you have to bear in mind is that the existing signals were there to protect the junction. Now the junction has moved to the north end of the station there is now no need to have the signals on the end of the platform as today. All the scenarios have been gone through with regard to the position of all the signals in the new layout for all proposed train movements from about 4 miles north of Market Harborough to approximately the same distance towards Kettering. Full signal sighting carried out and full risk assessments completed under the requirement for scheme plan approval.
An earlier version of the Leicester MAS scheme envisaged both the rebuilding of the station and the reversion to the original Midland alignment at Great Bowden, and in this the pair of crossovers were to be north of the new station and for 50 mph. In the final version it was still hoped up to a very late stage to do all the realignment works, but the crossovers were moved on to the curve south of the station (and the signals were moved appropriately) so as not to complicate that realignment work if and when it happened. The crossovers that were put in were for 40 mph, which had become pretty much the standard for the modernisation of the London to Trent line. But if my memory serves me rightly, whereas none of the original junctions between running lines in the West Hampstead scheme got flashing yellows, several in the Leicester area did.
What you say about 25 mph crossovers for Market Harborough is very disappointing. Is this another bit of de-speccing of a scheme outside the South-East, or are we seeing a reversion to the old London Midland Region love of low-speed crossovers with highly-restrictive approach control. 40 seemed a very good compromise in the Leicester area for effective use of the reversible signalling: Sunday trains seemed to be able to use the facilities very smoothly (and quickly accelerate back up to line-speed, not the SIMBIDS 80). I note that the replacement Wellingborough north junction is only for 25, although I recall reading somewhere that this is where most down trains for Corby will cross fast to slow. Will the new Wellingborough south junction be equally slow?
 

DanDaDriver

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What you have to bear in mind is that the existing signals were there to protect the junction. Now the junction has moved to the north end of the station there is now no need to have the signals on the end of the platform as today. All the scenarios have been gone through with regard to the position of all the signals in the new layout for all proposed train movements from about 4 miles north of Market Harborough to approximately the same distance towards Kettering. Full signal sighting carried out and full risk assessments completed under the requirement for scheme plan approval.

Im sure it has been risk assessed. Whether it’s by anyone who’s driven a train is unlikely.
 

edwin_m

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The crossovers are very close to the platform, and any service thinned out enough to be compatible with single line working is likely to have everything stopping at all stations. If that happens then nothing will be doing more than 25mph when crossing over anyway.
 

Senex

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The crossovers are very close to the platform, and any service thinned out enough to be compatible with single line working is likely to have everything stopping at all stations. If that happens then nothing will be doing more than 25mph when crossing over anyway.
They used to be used by genuine fast services as well as those calling all over the place (and especially when reversible working was needed during normal weekday services, of course). As for what the tail end of a modern train can be doing when clearing the platform, look what an impact the 20 mph connection at the south end of Crewe platform 5 has on an 11-coach Pendolino starting away from the station. (DB uses 100 km/h switches for platform loops on new lines.)
 

Denis103

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Which is what I said.....
You posted this - The signals are moving. I believe theres maybe going to be a banner repeater, but no AWS, which obviously brings its own risks.
This is not clear as to what you are referring to in the AWS comment
 

edwin_m

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They used to be used by genuine fast services as well as those calling all over the place (and especially when reversible working was needed during normal weekday services, of course). As for what the tail end of a modern train can be doing when clearing the platform, look what an impact the 20 mph connection at the south end of Crewe platform 5 has on an 11-coach Pendolino starting away from the station. (DB uses 100 km/h switches for platform loops on new lines.)
When was this? I've been using the MML regularly for 30 years and I've never been sent wrong line through Market Harborough.

It may be that the curve has to start so close to the platforms that a faster crossover would reduce the speed for all non-stop trains to benefit the extremely rare non-stop train that crosses over.
 

londonmidland

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I don’t mean to veer off topic however Leicester still remains a painfully slow 15mph on the down line on the approach to platform 1/2.

The freight loop round the back of the station isn’t always available to use so several, long metre container trains trundle through. It’s only until the last wagon has passed under the bridge until the driver can then start accelerating away from 15mph, thus delaying any passenger trains closely behind it.

The last I heard from Network Rail is that they were still designing a layout appropriate to the junction.
 

sharpley

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When was this? I've been using the MML regularly for 30 years and I've never been sent wrong line through Market Harborough.

It may be that the curve has to start so close to the platforms that a faster crossover would reduce the speed for all non-stop trains to benefit the extremely rare non-stop train that crosses over.
The first southbound weekday service, starting at Leicester, would very occasionally run 'wrong line' down to Kettering from Wigston a couple of years ago when I was using this service. This first train never stops at Market Harborough though.
 

sharpley

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I don’t mean to veer off topic however Leicester still remains a painfully slow 15mph on the down line on the approach to platform 1/2.

The freight loop round the back of the station isn’t always available to use so several, long metre container trains trundle through. It’s only until the last wagon has passed under the bridge until the driver can then start accelerating away from 15mph, thus delaying any passenger trains closely behind it.

The last I heard from Network Rail is that they were still designing a layout appropriate to the junction.
On a weekday afternoon theres normally a cement train (14.40 ish) and a container train (15.40 ish) heading north through platform 2, to be routed onto the slow reversible line for onward journeys towards Peterborough. Trouble is there is a southbound EMT coming in at about the same time on platform 3 thus blocking access to the slow lines. These 2 freight trains often have to come into Leicester approaching a red signal, so doing a lot less than 15mph. The freight loop is often occupied by something else as well.
 

clagmonster

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Apologies if I've missed it, just had a quick skeg through the thread. Is there a current expected closure date for the old station and alignment?
 

Senex

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When was this? I've been using the MML regularly for 30 years and I've never been sent wrong line through Market Harborough.
It's a good few years now since I was a very regular user of the MML, but there were many occasions on Sundays where the reversible facilities were in use and I've been over all the "wrong"-line sections at one time or another on a number of occasions. I think the only ones I experienced on a weekday were between Leicester and Wigston and between Kilby Bridge and Market Harborough, the latter when reversible working was used during problems.
 

Senex

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I don’t mean to veer off topic however Leicester still remains a painfully slow 15mph on the down line on the approach to platform 1/2.

The freight loop round the back of the station isn’t always available to use so several, long metre container trains trundle through. It’s only until the last wagon has passed under the bridge until the driver can then start accelerating away from 15mph, thus delaying any passenger trains closely behind it.

The last I heard from Network Rail is that they were still designing a layout appropriate to the junction.
It's puzzling me too. The junction seems to have been re-laid, so how can they still be designing a new layout? And if all southbound speeds are now up to the final level (30 out of 1, 40 out of 2 and 3, and 25 out of 4), then why is it still that truly painfully slow 15 on all northbound routes?
 

Flying Phil

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Apologies if I've missed it, just had a quick skeg through the thread. Is there a current expected closure date for the old station and alignment?
There is a closure of the line - 28th May to 6th June, to allow the changeover.
 

Senex

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We never got a definitive answer, but it's almost certainly down to signal sighting.
That seems most likely, doesn't it? But surely that would have been taken into account in planning the works, which were always designed to give 40 in both directions. So could it be that there is some signal work still to be done? With platform 2 it always used to be that the Lancaster Road signal (sorry—no numbers to hand) worked with a delayed release from red unless the platform signal was shewing a proceed aspect, I think because of the short overlap because of the closeness of the connection out of platform 1 at the north end. I'm not sure whether there's a similar situation with using 3 northbound with the connection from 4 at the north end also being very close in.
 

Hairy Bear

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That seems most likely, doesn't it? But surely that would have been taken into account in planning the works, which were always designed to give 40 in both directions. So could it be that there is some signal work still to be done? With platform 2 it always used to be that the Lancaster Road signal (sorry—no numbers to hand) worked with a delayed release from red unless the platform signal was shewing a proceed aspect, I think because of the short overlap because of the closeness of the connection out of platform 1 at the north end. I'm not sure whether there's a similar situation with using 3 northbound with the connection from 4 at the north end also being very close in.

To my knowledge, there's no further work to be done. There's no delayed release either, as there is a timed tpws protection in place on the northbound signals at the end of 2/3. We frequently come in on one yellow as they play with much more important trains than us.
 

Corncob

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When was this? I've been using the MML regularly for 30 years and I've never been sent wrong line through Market Harborough.

It may be that the curve has to start so close to the platforms that a faster crossover would reduce the speed for all non-stop trains to benefit the extremely rare non-stop train that crosses over.
I commute from Market Harborough, it happaens once or twice a year, snow drifts last year was the last one that I remember.
 

Flying Phil

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The new footbridge at Little Bowden does offer some good photographic vantage points.DSCF6519.JPG DSCF6520.JPG
 

Flying Phil

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Meanwhile the footbridge on the new platforms has had more cladding and window frames installed, the platform in-filling has continued and there are two large stacks of concrete sleepers ready to be put in place between the platforms. There is also some groundwork going on on the East side of the old platform 2,DSCF6523.JPG where the old siding was situated.
 

Flying Phil

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Incidentally, as I was leaving the station this afternoon, I glimpsed what might have been a class 37 (?) heading North propelling a single, fairly old, coach - was it an inspection saloon?
 

londonmidland

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londonmidland

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I don’t want to quote the whole post but are there no lights on the approach to the footbridge/on the footbridge?

It isn’t a completely isolated spot so I’m surprised there has been none installed. Unless they are awaiting installation of them, of course.
 

Flying Phil

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We now have tracks in between our new platforms! They can just be seen behind the yellow JCB.DSCF6533.JPG
True they are only placed in position, but very nice to see.
I also experienced one reason why it will be such an improvement. I travelled to Loughborough yesterday, and it was a big "heave" to get my bike loaded due to the adverse cant Northbound...and Southbound the bike space was at the North end of a 7 coach train...."passengers for Market Harborough, use the first 5 coaches, due to the short platform at Market Harborough" was the announcement. So I had to stand with my bike at the end of coach 5 (sorry to cause inconvenience to passengers alighting and boarding at Leicester). It was then an even bigger drop to the platform due to the adverse cant at the other end of Hbro!!
 
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