Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Where are these legitimate purposes defined? Am I allowed to use the luxury of the first class toilet?
No, this isn't allowed.
Where are these legitimate purposes defined? Am I allowed to use the luxury of the first class toilet?
No, this isn't allowed.
simple solution is for people not to travel in First Class without a ticket
Where is that defined?
I surely can't be the only person who's done so on here, and sees nothing wrong with it.
No sympathy for him here. ..........so I'm not buying that excuse, however much he might bleat...........
As in the police were called because he was being an obnoxious arse, but may not have been if he'd been politer?
There's not a lot in that report to suggest he was being difficult. From the quotes in the report, he seems to be quite polite and rational.I can see both sides of the issue and agree it’s not ideal. However, most BTP would only be in the office doing paperwork or watching TV, so I think it’s acceptable to expect them to help out with the odd difficult customer................
Plenty of people have given up on the railways and do just that.......if you're thinking a train might crash as some sort of defence of breaking the law, then perhaps you'd be safer not on a train at all? Perhaps take your chances on a road instead.
Fair point, although I don't think he was asking for sympathy, rather just trying to draw attention to what he believes is an unsatisfactory situation on a busy train.No sympathy for the man who was obviously in the wrong. However I would comment that it was a d**n silly idea to have 1st class on 2 or 3 coach 170s. A lot of trains were overcrowded even before they reduced standard class seating to make space for 1st class.
As it seems like the passenger had failed the attitude test, could the guard liaise with the driver for an additional call at Water Orton (assuming that particular train does not normally call there) and toss the passenger off there?
Personal attack ? Er, not at all.................
If a person is going to have to stand and they're too lazy to do so / don't want to pay to upgrade, they also fail to realise it makes it a personal attack on the railway staff member. ................
You are not allowed to remain in a First Class coach. Using the toilet is, like standing in the vestibule, remaining in a First Class coach.
That can't be the definition, as a coach can be composite. Accommodation marked as first class, sure.
Are there trains with toilets with first class stickers? I don't think there are. Happy to be corrected.
of course there’s not. He went to the papers, he’s hardly going to admit being ‘difficult’There's not a lot in that report to suggest he was being difficult. From the quotes in the report, he seems to be quite polite
I've used the toilet in coach G if both toilets in E are occupied or out of use. It's never been a problem.No, this isn't allowed.
I've used the toilet in coach G if both toilets in E are occupied or out of use. It's never been a problem.
By that logic the toilets on 4 VEP units were first class because they were at the first class end of the driving trailers. Some HST (those with the micro buffets) had first class coaches adjacent to standard. Can you imagine if GWR tried to charge people first class fare for using the toilet next to standard? I doubt any court would convict them if they refused to pay.Whether the TOC chooses to bother enforcing it or not is slightly by the by - it's still part of First Class.
The toilets don't need the stickers. A coach which only contains First Class is First Class from gangway centre to gangway centre, hence why you can't stand in those vestibules as has been explained above.
By that logic the toilets on 4 VEP units were first class because they were at the first class end of the driving trailers. Some HST (those with the micro buffets) had first class coaches adjacent to standard. Can you imagine if GWR tried to charge people first class fare for using the toilet next to standard? I doubt any court would convict them if they refused to pay.
GWR have charged people the First Class fare for standing in the First Class vestibule.
Where is that defined?
I surely can't be the only person who's done so on here, and sees nothing wrong with it.
First class clearly isn't needed if nobody is sat there, and should be removed if Standard class is that overcrowded.
GWR have charged people the First Class fare for standing in the First Class vestibule.
If a member of railway staff instructs someone to do something (reasonable), and the person does not follow the instruction, I would consider that a bit of a personal attack on that member of staff.Personal attack ? Er, not at all.
The thing about rules is that they ensure everybody is treated consistently, even if it may be consistently unfair.Is there any evidence for that other than anecdotes on here, where to be brutally frank some seem a little fixated by rules?
That is up to the TOC. The customer has paid for a service, and it is up to the TOC to ensure reasonable comfort,including a seat - at least on a long journey. In any other consumer transaction, the customer has some rights. Why is the railway different?So how are the longer trains to be paid for?
With fares being ridiculously overpriced as they are, it’s perfectly reasonable to expect a seat. First class should be abolished anyway, they dont have it on EasyJet, which is the railways competitor. Rail is no longer some posh gracious means of transport policed by multitudes of little Hitlers.No sympathy for him here. A ticket doesn't guarantee you a seat, and it never has done. As far as standing on a crowded train goes, there's this idea that it is, for some reason, "unsafe", but it isn't, so I'm not buying that excuse, however much he might bleat. No sympathy for him going to the press either.
but there were people sat there. People who had paid the proper price for their tickets. Train companies make far more money off First Class passengers than they do off Standard Class. First Class passengers are subsidising the restFirst class clearly isn't needed if nobody is sat there, and should be removed if Standard class is that overcrowded.
First class should be abolished anyway,
How ridiculous! Should courts spend time dealing with a prosecution for daring to use the wrong toilets? The evidence of Harry Jobsworth, conductor, for the prosecution - "I saw this guy going into the toilet in First Class. He looked too scruffy to be a First Class customer, so I waited outside the toilet in priority to my other duties, and five minutes later he emerged. I asked to see his ticket, and as it was only a Standard Class ticket I asked him for £500, being a penalty fare. This was twice the full First Class fare for the journey he was making. He declined to pay, so I took his name and address and told him he might be prosecuted for travelling First Class on a Standard Class ticket."No, this isn't allowed.
Only because they choose to. And don't forget the jolly old taxpayer, who doesn't have the choice.but there were people sat there. People who had paid the proper price for their tickets. Train companies make far more money off First Class passengers than they do off Standard Class. First Class passengers are subsidising the rest
How ridiculous! Should courts spend time dealing with a prosecution for daring to use the wrong toilets? The evidence of Harry Jobsworth, conductor, for the prosecution - "I saw this guy going into the toilet in First Class. He looked too scruffy to be a First Class customer, so I waited outside the toilet in priority to my other duties, and five minutes later he emerged. I asked to see his ticket, and as it was only a Standard Class ticket I asked him for £500, being a penalty fare. This was twice the full First Class fare for the journey he was making. He declined to pay, so I took his name and address and told him he might be prosecuted for travelling First Class on a Standard Class ticket."
I thought Brexit was a farce, but this beats it any day of the week.
With fares being ridiculously overpriced as they are, it’s perfectly reasonable to expect a seat. First class should be abolished anyway, they dont have it on EasyJet, which is the railways competitor. Rail is no longer some posh gracious means of transport policed by multitudes of little Hitlers.
You shouldn't have to push through people anyway, even in Standard Class!On planes you use the toilet in your class of service. There are solid reasons for keeping First Class vestibules clear - part of the improved service is easier access to/from the train and toilets by not having to push through people.
I haven't seen it in the UK for a while, but on some older DB stock the First Class toilets are better appointed - larger, for instance.
Rail is no longer some posh gracious means of transport policed by multitudes of little Hitlers.
You shouldn't have to push through people anyway, even in Standard Class!